Duke's Black Players

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 17, 2011 11:43 PM GMT
    Has anyone else been following the hopla over Jalen Rose's comments in his Fab Five documentary about Duke's black players being uncle toms. It stirred up quite a controversy. He also called Grant Hill a bitch. Well my hero Grant had to respond to that:

    http://granthill.com/hilltop/hilltop/grants-unedited-response-to-the-fab-fives-documentary

    I've heard this argument before that Duke and coach K are somehow racists because they have too many white players. I say when it comes to racism pick your battles, there are plenty of real racist problems in this country and Duke's basketball team is not one of them. Jalen defended himself by saying he made that comment at 18 but then went on to say that Duke only recruits elite blacks. Well that's not true either and people were quick to point the black players that came from the ghettos but apparently the list wasn't long enough to satisfy Rose.

    I have no problem with people hating Duke for the same reasons I've never really cared for Kentucky, Kansas or UConn. But its just not sportsmanlike to try to broad brush an excellent institution of higher education.

    As for the black players. Maybe the problem is they are too damn good looking and classy. Yeah, Duke has its share of cute white boys but I could give a nice list of their hot black players as well. On this team alone I'd put Andre Dawkins, Seth Curry, and Kyre Irving on the looker list. While Nolan Smith may not be the most classically handsome there is something so hot about that guy. I see husband and great father all over his face.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 17, 2011 11:56 PM GMT
    Might want to check out the polar opposite issue of blatancy by watching the HBO special about UNLV and the team being nicknamed Thugs when they were in the final against Duke. I have been a fan of Duke since my teens and that will never change. The mere fact that articles like this and specials like the UNLV show tells me that regardless of whether the gay community acknowledges it, the country as a whole or any of us as individuals that racism will be an issue perpetuated as well as swept over and not dealt with.
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Mar 18, 2011 12:05 AM GMT
    I've heard versions of the same with my jayhawks over the years.... comments about the whites.. about the blacks (some blacks being really "white" with the exception of their skin color).

    Kansas certainly ranks at the top of those institutions that encourage players to complete their educations and historically have a nice split of black and white players.... whatever they are doing, they are certainly a success.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 18, 2011 12:15 AM GMT
    What about the Georgetown teams in the 80s. I went to the Big East tournaments and my best friend was black. The hatred of those teams were pretty intense and my friend who was a BC fan found it a bit hard to take when the whole garden is spewing out so much venom at a basketball game.

    Interestingly enough Grant Hill grew up wanting to go to Georgetown but his visit didn't go so well:

    As a teenager Hill dreamed of attending nearby Georgetown University to play basketball. He changed his mind after a visit he made to the campus during his junior year of high school. The athlete told Esquire that when he visited Georgetown, "Coach [John] Thompson was there, and Miss Mary Fenlon, Georgetown's academic adviser. We're sitting in a room and Miss Fenlon hands me a book and says, `Read this.' I was a little startled, but I took the book and started reading to myself. Then she says, `I meant, read out loud.' So I started reading out loud. After a page, she stops me and says, `Now, tell me what you've read.'" Deeply--and justifiably--offended, Hill left the room vowing never to attend Georgetown.


    Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/grant-hill-1#ixzz1GuCD4tB0
  • ohioguy12

    Posts: 2024

    Mar 18, 2011 5:21 AM GMT
    I'm tired so I don't feel like getting too in depth. But this is something that has been discussed before amongst many blacks, but maybe Jalen saying this just brought the subject into the forefront.

    Whether right or wrong there is a perception that Duke (along with Indiana, Roy Williams at Kansas/UNC, Notre Dame, and a few others) only recruit whites or certain type of black guys. I'm not sure if it's necessarily because of racism, but maybe those types of players are less eager to run off to the NBA.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 18, 2011 5:52 AM GMT
    In before teh obligatory "Uncle Tom was actually a pro-black slave; if you had actually read the book you would know he stood up against 'Whitey' in order to protect his fellow bretheren."

    But seriously, this whole Uncle Tom bullshit really pisses me off to no end when it applies to blacks who break into realms which are otherwise mostly white. It's fucking stupid. I was smart enough to become an engineer with a renown company but yet I'm an uncle tom because it happens to be a mostly white company? Just like these dudes are good enough to become recruited on the number one college basketball team, which happens to be a mostly white private university? Get the fuck out of here. This debate is sparked by none other than haters.
  • tuffguyndc

    Posts: 4437

    Mar 18, 2011 9:25 AM GMT
    ohioguy12 saidI'm tired so I don't feel like getting too in depth. But this is something that has been discussed before amongst many blacks, but maybe Jalen saying this just brought the subject into the forefront.

    Whether right or wrong there is a perception that Duke (along with Indiana, Roy Williams at Kansas/UNC, Notre Dame, and a few others) only recruit whites or certain type of black guys. I'm not sure if it's necessarily because of racism, but maybe those types of players are less eager to run off to the NBA.
    ok, i take offense when people start talking about my tarheels. roy williams, teams have been very diverse. hell the campus of unc is very diverse. i think jalen is a pretty descent guy but he was way off base when he accused duke of only recruiting black uncle toms. the word uncle tom has always been used for blacks who were either smart, successful or did not follow the traditional quote unquote stereotypical ways. guys, there are blacks who do turn there backs on black heritage but grant hill is not one of them and neither are many of the black players that went to duke. wow, i am standing up for duke. hell is going to freeze over. ha ha ha ha hell maybe many of the blacks that go there meet the requirements of the school academic requirements. i hate duke but i have never seen them as a school where they only recruit certain types of blacks. i take that back, i did when i was younger and dumb but as i have grown up and become smarter and wiser. i realized that duke is one of those schools that has very high academic standards which means not many people black or whites can get into that school. thats not to say that blacks aren't smart enough to get into duke because they can. however, i just think that people make a mountain out of a mole hill. there are plenty of schools that may have racist standards but duke is not one of them.

    when will all the infighting stop between us black people. this is why we can never move forward because we still have stupid issues like this
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 18, 2011 1:21 PM GMT
    Jalen and many of his cohorts fell prey to "Believing the Hype" that Duke typecasted when recruiting, in ways that denied Af-Ams from disadvantaged backgrounds an opportunity to succeed there. In a bit of irony that reinforced this view, the private high school that recruited Chris Webber from the inner city and first put him on a national stage (Country Day School) would later promote Shane Battier, a suburban bi-racial player which received Webber's same high school bball accolades (in addition to a near 4.0 GPA)... and a Duke scholarship. Duke recruited Webber as well.

    Jalen and his colleagues were not helped by a media that perpetuated the stereotypes, as noted above, that Duke, coincidentally a Southern private school, was THE quintessential Final 4-caliber school to root for if you weren't embracing the gangsta/Fight the Power/factional hiphop/anti-Huxtable (pick 'n choose amongst them) mindsets that were the primary, secondary, and tertiary media representations of Af-Am youth in the late 80s/early 90s. Having players like Ferry, Hurley, Laettner, and Wojciechowski who persistently refused to wilt to the on-court intimidations of guys like Webber, Rasheed Wallace, and Larry Johnson resulted in teams ready-made for those looking to exploit racial aggravations in America. A "Boston Celtics" for the NCAA -- even better for the aggravators because it wasn't softened by a history of pioneers like Sam Jones, Bill Russell, KC Jones, etc. Even before the Coach K era, Duke had a history of getting by with the likes of Dick Groat, Mike Gminski, and Jim Spanarkel.

    The rise of Duke as a hoops powerhouse also coincided with the meteoric and iconic ascent of UNC's Michael Jordan, in the pros and in Black celebrity consciousness. To millions of impressionable sneaker-hoarding tweens, striving to "Be Like Mike" could not possibly coincide with being a fan of the longtime Tobacco Road arch-nemesis of MJ's school.

    In the NBA and the years that followed, Jalen has chalked up his beefs with Grant Hill et al. to something akin to "youthful indiscretion." As an executive producer of this ESPN show, Jalen, now a grown-a$$ man, should have done more to make his youthful ignorance clear in the show to viewers, rather than offering mea culpas to the targets of his ignorance after-the-fact.

    In my opinion, Jalen has never shed his preference for sound bytes (as of late, "tweets") that generate controversial discussions. ANY controversy that keeps Jalen's name in the streets (and message boards like this one) is superior to Jalen than no controversy at all. See his twitter war going in on Shaq last year as a sample of his obsession with relevancy, high-road-be-damned. Unfortunately, because of his choice to depend on a career in the public realm since his retirement, Jalen is stuck in cycles of making what he sees as bold, ripping critiques of individuals, followed not long after by futile attempts at reconciliation. It's not a good look.

    As one of Jalen's recent tweets boasted, "I didn't say anything in the doc that I didn't say to a players FACE." If he truly meant to apologize to Grant Hill, he should have gone out of his way to say so to his face, and should have also gone out of his way to say it in his own doc.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 19, 2011 5:19 AM GMT
    Wow Dayumm that was really well stated.

    Though Duke is located in the south anyone in NC will tell you it is not exactly filled with southerners. They have tried to paint it as an elite white southern school in a black town with lots of town and gown problems. That may have been true in the 60s when my dad moved there and it was a tobacco town but Duke is now the largest employer. At first glance it appears segregated but look deeper and its more of an economic divide. One side of the city is still poor black and Hispanic but the rest is middle to upper middle class blacks and whites. It has always had a vibrant black middle class and is home of the first black owned bank (before it was bought out) and the still existing first black owned insurance company. My brother attended the black college and when my sister recently moved there her doctor, dentist and realtor turned out to be black. I get my hair cut there at a black owned hair cutting business and guess what, they cut the hair of many of the Duke players white and black.

    Duke has been instrumental in reviving the downtown where you will find black owned restaurants, jazz clubs, cafes and other businesses. Simply put, Durham is becoming a super cool cultural hotspot. The New Times keeps writing articles about it.

    But the irony is that just as Duke is typecasted as a white elitist school with some type of secret racist agenda, Durham is considered a scary dump by most of the people moving to the triangle. I can't help but to feel that its blackness scares them away. They all flock to Cary, Raleigh or Chapel Hill because everyone in those towns (except Chapel Hill) will tell them that Durham is crime invested. Some honestly believe the whole town is some type of war zone style ghetto.

    One recently arrived gay resident was told Raleigh is for gays and Durham for the lesbians. But a gay friend of mine told me that when he went out to the bars in Raleigh and asked about Durham he was told, don't bother its all black.

    The people who love Durham embrace the diversity and they're okay with the lilly white suburbanites bypassing the town and heading straight to Cary. I joked once that we need a T-shirt that says "keep Durham scary".

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 20, 2011 2:58 PM GMT
    VERY interesting take by William Rhoden in the NY times

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/20/sports/ncaabasketball/20rhoden.html?hp

    He makes a great case that if you really want to make a black empowerment statement you don't go to Michigan but to an HBCU. It is hard to get an eighteen year old kid to make that decision and Chris Weber said it best with:

    “A lot of people put that pressure on me to go to an H.B.C.U., like, ‘Come on, Chris, you can change it around, you can change it around,’ ” Webber said.

    “But I think that process has to start within the black college association,” Webber said at the time.

    “Just like me not playing on MTV is not good enough. I want the world to see. I feel guilty because we could have changed that rhyme. But we had to do what was best for us at that time. But we talked a lot about going to black colleges.”

    But I like how Rhoden ends the article:

    The reality is that, by the strict standards of black empowerment, neither Hill nor the Fab Five did the black community any favors.

    Uncle Tomism, notwithstanding, Hill and the Fab Five both elected, for their own reasons, to play in the big house.

    Fab Five is history but what about the one and done college teams today like last year's Kentucky team. If you really only intend to go to college one year and then jump to the pros why not get a few guys to choose a HBCU like NCCU (please!)?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 20, 2011 3:03 PM GMT
    Jalen forgets he was 0-3 vs. Duke in his career. I love how Grant shut him up with that comment. Duke has had its share of African American ball-players and to attend and play at Duke you have to be a great player on the court and in the classroom. Players such as Derrick Rose from Memphis would never even be considered by Coach K. People hate on Duke because they do it the right way and still win. I'm a huge supporter of Coach K, he has changed basketball and he is the face of CBB.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 20, 2011 6:37 PM GMT
    msuNtx saidJalen forgets he was 0-3 vs. Duke in his career. I love how Grant shut him up with that comment. Duke has had its share of African American ball-players and to attend and play at Duke you have to be a great player on the court and in the classroom. Players such as Derrick Rose from Memphis would never even be considered by Coach K. People hate on Duke because they do it the right way and still win. I'm a huge supporter of Coach K, he has changed basketball and he is the face of CBB.


    Jalen hasn't forgotten and admitted that jealousy was part of it. I like dayumm's take that controversy keeps his name on the screen.

    Just to share the love here, I've always liked Tom Izzo. It is unfortunate what he had to go through the season and it only goes to show that coaches can't be careful enough in choosing players who's behavior off the court doesn't ruin their contribution on the court.
  • waccamatt

    Posts: 1918

    Aug 31, 2011 3:12 AM GMT
    I much prefer Durham to Raleigh. Raleigh is rather elitist and Durham has more grit to it and I like my cities to have a little bit of grit. For example, I preferred the old NYC before Giuliani sanitized it.