Intellectual dishonesty hall of shame: Freedom of opinion/press is found in Iran, not in US or UK.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 20, 2011 1:49 AM GMT
    Intellectual dishonesty hall of shame

    Rather than delve on this tangent in the original thread:
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/1436595

    pouncer Lie #1> In his memoirs, Rabin describes Sadat's move as a "famous milestone" on the road to peace.

    Caesarea4> I suggest you actually read Rabin's memoir rather than quote the dishonest Chomsky.
    Then tell us how many pages apart the two words are.

    p> I could tell you much about Yitzhak Rabin's "memoirs"

    C4> If you can't tell us how many pages apart the word "famous" and "milestone" are (which you and Chomsky mis-quote as "famous milestone") then it appears that you haven't read the book and don't know anything beyond your hack cut-and-paste spam propaganda jobs that no one finds credible.

    pouncer Lies #2 & #3> Chomsky's quote provided ellipses - much like you often do.

    C4> Odd, then, that your cut-and-paste spam propaganda, like most of your poor quality web sites, left out the ellipses.
    C4> in his original article, Chomsky did NOT use ellipses when he "quoted" "famous milestone".

    C4> That I (legitimately) use ellipses does little to excuse Chomsky (and your) hack job of quoting TWO WORDS, used pages apart, and stringing them together as if the author had said what you misleadingly quoted.

    Pouncer then, either ignorantly or as another lie-for-the-cause, quotes the wrong section of Chomsky's article and blurts out:

    pouncer Lie #4> Looks like you either lacked recourse to the original article, or worse sought to mislead this forum.

    He doth project too much, as from his own link:

    http://www.chomsky.info/articles/199310--.htm
    the facts have been "vetoed" along with numerous peace initiatives, buried deep in the memory hole together with Sadat's "famous milestone" and much else that is inconvenient.


    As unbelievable as it may seem, he didn't stop there and dug himself even deeper:

    pouncer lie #5> Chomsky provided the correct quotes (separated) and then, in the course of making his own point, put them together. If something is "famous" and also a "milestone", who but an obsessed pedant such as c4 would take exception with "famous milestone"?

    C4> Rabin's use of "famous" did not speak of Sadat's "milestone" but rather "Jarring's questionnaire"
    Quoting "famous... milestone", let alone "famous milestone", is not only wrong but dishonest.
    There is no excuse for Chomsky's hack job MIS-"quoting" Rabin (or, elsewhere, Dayan).
    Surely one would expect better from the so-called "world's leading intellectual".

    For pouncer, the idiot/ignorant/liar-for-the-cause, the truth doesn't matter.
    What Rabin said, even what Chomsky mis-quoted, doesn't matter.
    The point of his exercise, of his existence, is to - damn the facts - demonize Israel.


  • dglater

    Posts: 255

    Mar 21, 2011 4:20 AM GMT
    Damn C4 are you a lawyer? b/c you sure as hell served pouncer.
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    Mar 22, 2011 1:52 PM GMT
    I've always been so impressed by the breadth of knowledge shown by site members that are so young, crediting all the easy access to readily available information these days. I suppose that the downside to being so informed at such an age, even when deeply passionate about a subject, is that their grasp of issues is somewhat superficial since they deny themselves a greater depth of understanding by performing end-runs around source materials, Cliff Noting their way through life. Hopefully life experience tempers that temptation to take shortcuts.
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    Mar 24, 2011 3:48 AM GMT
    Good observation, though I fear that sometimes the "shortcuts" are intentional.
    Here's another example from today:

    pouncer, 23 Mar 2011> the violent Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood

    Yet in a topic discussing events in Egypt last month:

    pouncer, 3 Feb 2011> The Muslim Brotherhood is extreme in its views, not so much in its actions (it renounced violence in the 1970s).


    This is what I call deriving "data" or "facts" from the "model".
    When you need X to be true to prove Y, just conjure X and claim Y.
    When you need NotX to be true to prove Z, just invent NotX and claim Z.
    As if X, NotX, Y and Z can all be simultaneously true.

    We've seen that those who seek such "shortcuts" are likewise challenged by the concept of causality.
    In one case, a poster actually claimed that, since they were "different contexts", both X and NotX could be true!

    This is the reversal of the scientific method. Rather than seek and collect the best available data and facts, and then derive a model or conclusions based on them, here the opposite happens. Having a desired false notion in mind, they work backward through the maze to find a suitable starting point. For example, if X were true they think they can prove the desired Y. They don't at all care if X is or isn't true and, as seen above, frequently end up contradicting themselves with their arguments of convenience.
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    Mar 24, 2011 3:02 PM GMT
    LEERON (C4), your desperation to have it only your ZIONIST FANATIC way of looking at any Israeli subject, is in fact "INTELECTUAL DISHONESTY. Here again you expose yourself as being the perfect example of what you accuse another of.

    You truely are warped to go to this extent to have yourself in the place of always being right. You are PATHETIC and OBNOXIOUS as well as a perfect example of what not to be and how not to act in your rhetoric, to forward the interests of Israel. You expose yourself and your ilk as ZIONIST FANATICS and as the express reason why there is no peace coming from Israel. There is no negotiating with those ZIONIST FANATICS like you, who are always right and who see nothing but outcomes only favorable to themselves, who give no credence to the rights of others (the Palestinians).
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    Apr 25, 2011 5:37 PM GMT
    Here's another example of selective - and twisted - "facts":

    many Arabs in eastern Jerusalem have enough to lose that they'd rather leave their homes and move elsewhere in Israel than see their neighborhoods become part of Arab Palestine.

    pouncer> To give you just one taste of c4's utter recidivist dishonesty, the four-year-old poll that he references (about Arabs wishing to stay in Israel

    Poor little ignorant and dishonest pouncer.

    During the Oslo years, fearful that their neighborhoods in eastern Jerusalem will be ceded by Israel to the PA, so many Arab residents who had previously rejected Israeli citizenship applied for it (so they could leave their homes in eastern Jerusalem and move elsewhere in Israel rather than come under PA rule) that the PA demanded (as part of the negotiations) that they be categorically rejected. [Note: this isn't even based on a "poll" but with people attempting to "vote with their feet"]

    In 2000, a radical Muslim leader from Um el Fahm (an Arab village in Israel near the 1949 Armistice line) declared he was "prepared to give up the National Insurance allowance [he gets as an Israeli citizen] and Israeli democracy to be united with the land and people of Palestine." This lead Kul Al-Arab to conduct a poll in the town. As reported by Haaretz, they found that:
    83 percent of respondents opposed the idea of transferring their city to Palestinian jurisdiction, while 11 percent supported the proposal and 6 percent did not express their position. Of those opposed to the idea, 54 percent explained that they were against becoming part of a Palestinian state because they wanted to continue living under a democratic regime and enjoying a good standard of living, which includes National Insurance allowances and pensions. Of these opponents, 18 percent stated that they were satisfied with their present situation, that they were born in Israel and that they were not interested in moving to any other state. Another 14 percent of this same group went so far as to say that they were not prepared to make sacrifices for the sake of the creation of a Palestinian state and to be its "sacrificial offering of atonement." Another 11 percent cited no reason for their opposition to the annexation of their city by the Palestinian state.

    In addition to the fact that their parents and grandparents in 1948 decided to remain on their lands, Um Al-Fahm residents themselves have, over the past few years, gained first-hand knowledge of the regime of terror, oppression and corruption that exists in the Palestinian Authority under Chairman Yasser Arafat. The residents of Um Al-Fahm have expressed not only their own views and feelings but also the views and feelings of Israel's Arab community in general.

    Oh, dear, so much for your hero Arafat.
    Then again, you only revere him because he attacked Israel ("general" Arafat) and were never bothered by what he DIDN'T accomplish for his people (President Arafat).

    pouncer will try to dismiss this as being from 11 years ago, but little has changed since. A Saban poll from late last year confirms that a majority of 58% of Israeli Arabs oppose Arab villages/cities being ceded to and annexed by the future Palestinian Arab state.

    pouncer will weasel and say that 58% is a lot less than 83%, so let me emphasize that the question was asked generally.
    If people were asked if they want THEIR city/village to be ceded/annexed, the figure would increase.

    Indeed, a 2007 poll by Haifa University's Jewish-Arab Center shows that 62% worry that they might be that statistic.

    A 2008 KEEVOON poll put the figure at 62% overall, but what's also curious is the high number of people who refuse to answer (24%), leaving only 14% saying they prefer to live in the PA.

    An interesting thing with these polls is that Christian Israeli-Arabs tend to have much higher "don't know" (or "no response), in the 40% range. For an explanation, see this article:
    http://www.al-bushra.org/jerus2K/christians.htm


    Granted, the above can be attributed to ignorance and incompetence.
    Then there's this:


    p> 72%... consider Israel to be a racist state
    p> only 13% say Israel has the right to exist as a Jewish state.

    The usual selective and out-of-context nonsense for which the anti-Israel hatists are infamous.

    pouncer is simply hunting (working backward) for the worst numbers he could find (and mispresent!) rather than anything representative. Thus while he claims a 2007 poll is dated, he has no qualms digging up a 2005 poll (where he finds something useful to twist).

    In fact, the source that provides the 72% figure (for a differently phrased question, not about Israel as it exists but of a "Zionist state") and the 13% figure (actually 13.8%, which the petty one incorrectly rounds down for-the-cause) asked about Israel's right to exist as a "Zionist state".

    Now consider these results - from the very same poll!

    30.4% support for Israel "exist[ing] as a state of the Jewish people"
    84.9% support for Israel existing as an independent state
    70% support for Israel existing as a democratic Jewish State.

    Yet the only figure for this he gave you, dear reader, was 13% (not even 13.8%)?!

    A 2007 poll (by the Israeli Democracy Institute) puts the figure at 75%

    A 2008 poll (KEEVOON) indicates 77% of Israeli-Arabs would rather live in Israel than any other state.


    So once again pouncer's dishonesty and reversal of the scientific method is exposed.
    He's not looking for the best data, just whatever will support his preconceived notions that he pushes as conclusions.
    Even if he has to cook and twist the data... for-the-cause.
    Again, his faux "model" determines the "facts" rather than vice versa.


    ---------------------------------

    Just as bad as the above is pouncer's squirming to justify his lies:

    p> What's the statistical difference between 13%, 13.8% and 14%? Answer: zero.

    Then there is also "zero" difference between 14% and 15%. And 16%.
    So why not say that?
    Indeed, if there is no difference, then why didn't you post the correct number?


    p> What's the difference between a "Jewish" state and a "Zionist" state for the purposes of our discussion?

    Duh! Up to 66.2% according to those surveyed.

    Yet he continues to flail:

    p> If "Zionist state" and "Jewish state" aren't one and the same for the purposes of this discussion

    Obviously it is a question of perspective by those polled, which has nothing to do with the "purpose of this discussion".

    Nonetheless it is clear that pouncer's "purpose" isn't the truth but to twist and mislead.

    Is it any wonder that no intelligent person on RJ considers him credible?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 25, 2011 5:56 PM GMT
    Well this DUMB FUCK LEERON (C4) is here again attempting to prove his ZIONIST FANATICISM is always right, but this time he's trying it through dragging down someone who totally exposes him for what he (C4) is, an Intelectually Dishonest liar, who spews nothing but easily proven wrong ZIONIST PROPAGANDA to cover up that Israel is the true Aggressor in the conflict with Palestinians. They consistently start problems then start yelling and whining and propagandizing to cover up the fact that the Palestinians didn't start most of the problems but are retaliating against Israels inhumane acts including killing children by the hundreds. Yes LEERON, your a fucking shame !!! YOUR a REAL PIECE OF WORK !!!

    Talk about Shame, this idiot is too stupid to even be embarassed by his own "SHITZPAH"


    LEERON, are you typical and representative of the Zionist Fanatic Leadership like Lieberman and Netanyahu who keep pushing settlements ? With Fanatics like your ilk on Israels side, why in hell do they need enemies !!!!

    Tell us why so much attention on the terrible murders of the Fogul Family while Isreal is guilty of killing approx. 6000 Palestinains since 2000, yet all that is totally ignored, its not found in print in Israel or the US ? Can you tell us why Israeli snipers would shoot children around the age of 10 through the head ? Does your ZIONIST PROPAGANDA to cover this up have it that they were 'terrorists' while playing ? you tried the other day to say something down that line YOU FUCKING IDIOT !!!!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 25, 2011 6:19 PM GMT
    Wow.

    Some folks here... ought to pack themselves one big fat bowl of some sweet sticky bud and relax lol
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    Apr 25, 2011 6:23 PM GMT
    alphatrigger saidWow.

    Some folks here... ought to pack themselves one big fat bowl of some sweet sticky bud and relax lol


    totally.

    I love these bonding moments with you, trigger.

    (exhales.)
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    Apr 25, 2011 6:42 PM GMT
    I would LOL right along with Alpha, except sometimes and over some blantant attempts to cover a lot of murders, a GOD DAMN liar just needs to be labeled for what he is in no uncertain terms. If it were your child shot in the head by a snipers bullet would you be expressing LOL?

    These people Like C4 spread their Propaganda to cover up a lot of shit going on and unless you have a good defense for that, its no LOL, this is real everyday for some of our members living in Palestinian territory. So yes its serious, no LOL about it
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    Apr 26, 2011 2:06 PM GMT
    LEERON, I know with your lack of COMMON SENSE, you have a hard time grasping that you EMBARRASS YOURSELF with this BULLSHIT !! Your like a GOD DAMN spoiled kid whose tricks have been exposed, yet tries a few more desperate efforts to get attention. Your an OBNOXIOUS PAIN IN THE ASS with your ZIONIST PROPAGANDA.

    Where's your fan club LEERON ?

    When are you going to respond to the "questions of substance" regarding Israels actions that point out its position as the primary aggressor in the Palestinian conflict? The longer you avoid the truth, the more you embarrass yourself and your cause. How's that working out for you ?
  • TrentGrad

    Posts: 1541

    Apr 27, 2011 8:03 AM GMT
    I could be wrong RLD, but I think he's ignored you, so I don't think he's seen anything you've written.

    I did check out that website you mentioned a while back however, and checked out some of the peripheral sources where it got it's information, and I would hardly trust any of it to be impartial.

    And it should be noted that Hamas bears at least as much if not more responsibility for civilian deaths than does Israel: after all, it utilizes civilian areas to fire it's rockets.

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4055975,00.html

    Even if you disagree with everything caesarea4 believes in, even you have to admit, he really has exposed some fundamental problems with pouncer's postings.

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    Apr 28, 2011 1:23 PM GMT
    TrentGrad> I could be wrong RLD, but I think he's ignored you, so I don't think he's seen anything you've written.

    I think it's funny that the illiterate and uneducated buffoon keeps on blowing smoke and making himself one of the most ignored people on RJ. It appears that he spends hours a day stalking me and spamming his bullying hate right after my posts. I can't even see what he says (and I thank those that used to "quote" him for cutting down on that), but when I ask if he said anything that requires my response... there is only silence.


    TrentGrad> he really has exposed some fundamental problems with pouncer's postings.

    The kind of things he avoids by beating around the bush in topics (trying to divert from his old lies with new lies) and he certainly can't man up and come here to defend them, though the more mature line would be to admit that he was way off. He's too much of an extremist zealot to do so, because it's not just his beliefs but his methodology that is exposed.

    For him, a source is good, is "truth", not based on whether what it said makes sense let alone is factually correct, but if it can be used for-the-cause. Thus Chomsky is placed on a pedestal (despite being completely out of his field of expertise) and when it is learned that he misquoted Rabin (twisting his meaning) and if he misquoted Dayan (completely reversing his meaning) it is inconsequential.

    It's not like pouncer and his ilk of hatists arrived at their beliefs through facts and reason.
    Thus they are immune to them.
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    Apr 28, 2011 3:58 PM GMT
    You can bet on it Trent Grad that while LEERON may keep saying he has me on ignore, but his ZIOINIST FANATICISM won't allow him to not read what I have to say, notice all the name calling he does to everyone, can you support that just because he disagrees with their exposing his propaganda? He gets from me what he dishes out !! LEERON knows exactly what I write, don't let him fool you.

    My exposing him burns a hole in his ZIONIST PROPAGANDA to cover ISRAEL'S MANY INHUMANE ACTS so he does the typical labeling to take attention off the facts. LEERON, uses this "ignore" ruse to avoid answering "questions of substance" about all those killings (6000) at Israels hands, because he doesn't want to face that among them they killed (1500) children, you see there isn't enough ZIONIST PROPAGANDA to cover all of that, so its more convenient to discount what I say rather than respond. A TYPICAL ZIONIST FANATIC RESPONSE, yell the loudest, play the victim card, cover the truth with propaganda lies and stories, then combine it all to seek more, just like whent the Fogul family were unfortunately murdered, there were endless articles about it, then they used it to celebrate the building announcement of an additional 500 settlement units, in that jewish fanatic settlement area. Note that LEERON ignores the facts that this group believes in Jew Supremacy over Palestinians and its been exposed in some of their leaders writings that killing Palestinian babies is acceptable and that all other races are for the benefit of and under the Jewish race. WHY DO YOU SUPPOSE LEERON WON"T EXPOSE THAT INFORMATION and the problems it causes the Palestinians in and around that area?

    He can say all he wants about me and call me all the names he wants to, but facts are facts, ISRAELI ZIONIST ZEALOTS have brought most of the problems on themselves. The world sees through it and that is exactly why they are more Isolated now than ever. They cannot keep stealing land, killing children by SNIPER bullets and at the hands of JEWISH FANATIC SETTLERS without their ZIONIST PROPAGANDA being exposed, again, the world sees through it.

    You mentioned not being able to trust some of IF AMERICANS KNEW sources, how about HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH ? who other than AIPAC backed sources of media do you trust? AIPAC puts a great deal of effort into covering up with PROPAGANDA what the Israeli's do, and you know it Trent Grad, you know it !!!
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    Apr 28, 2011 4:23 PM GMT
    Here's another zany instance:

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/1073064

    When I pointed out that his source, PressTV, was run by the Iranian government:

    pouncer> You mean like the BBC is funded by the British government and constantly spouts incessant pro-government, pro-British propaganda?

    C4> In Britain there's something called freedom of the press.
    There's no such thing in Iran.
    "PressTV" is an organ of the Iranian regime.
    Much like Pravda was the voice of the USSR.
    Indeed, it's funny that you had to go back 2 months to find an "example" (not really much of one).
    Read through a western paper and you'll see criticism of the government on a daily basis.

    p> Freedom of the Press C4? You think we have freedom of the press in the UK or the US? We don't even have freedom of opinion in many cases.

    C4> Granted that our own societies are not perfect, but let's not mince words here.
    There is no comparison between the BBC and "PressTV".
    In the Reporters Without Borders "World Press Freedom Index" of 2009, the US and UK tie for 21st with a score of -4.00 (zero being the best score). Iran comes in 172 (out of 175!) with a score of -104.14. To stress: There are only 3 countries in the world with less freedom of the press.

    C4> Look at the contortions pouncer undergoes simply to falsely accuse and condemn Israel. The UK & US don't really have freedom of the press (or even of opinion?), yet Iran - the 4th worst country in the world in this regard - does and we should take what the Iranian government-run "PressTV" says over what the UN and US say?

    Maybe pouncer should go live in Iran and enjoy the freedoms there?
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    Apr 28, 2011 4:32 PM GMT
    TrentGrad, Why do so many Jewish people automaticly think that people hate Israel or hate jews as soon as anyone exposes ZIONIST FANATIC PROPAGANDA used to cover up the truth about any Israeli action that occurs ?

    ZIONIST FANATIC = a zionist who treats Palestinians inhumanely for the purpose of acquiring more land and extending settlements or forwarding Israeli interests, this group with little or no regard to the rights of Palestinians will lie and make up Proaganda shamelessly to cover up its own missdeeds, including killings. More killings are at the hands of this group through the decades than ever coming from the Palestinians in retalitation.

    Zionism - a belief in having a Jewish homeland in and of itself is not the problem , its only a problem when carried to extreme by ZIONIST FANATICS at the expense of Palestinian ancestral farms and homes and Palestinian human rights and life..
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    May 10, 2011 3:59 PM GMT
    Here's another pouncerism:

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/1524678
    I don't "celebrate" it [terrorism] - I understand it. As a Brit of Irish background, I understand the settler ideology, the singular importance of scare-branding resisters as "terrorists", the imposition of an unwanted new religion on a foreign land, and what is meant by the term "loyal little Ulster".

    Never mind the confusion of blowing up school buses as "resistance" (as if it is not terrorism).

    Never mind that Judaism wasn't imposed on anyone in the 20th century.

    Never mind the perversion of considering the "Holy Land" to be a "foreign land" to Judaism - it's birth place and where Jews have resided, continuously, for over 3,000 years.

    Consider what pouncer said last December, attempting to demonize the Jewish holiday of Hanukkah (which celebrates the successful revolt of the Jews against the Seleucid empire):

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/494893
    Jews in the region largely benefited from the restrictions (for there was never any prohibition) on the Jewish faith - learning instead about far more important things like philosophy, science, mathematics, theatre and sport.

    Never mind that the Seleucids were not known for culture and weren't setting up universities or building theaters (the Romans did, but that was later, but not for the common man).

    Never mind that the restrictions on Judaism were severe, effectively outlawing it. Not only weren't Jewish sacrifices allowed, the Sabbath couldn't be kept and Jews caught with Jewish holy texts were executed (which pouncer seems to think was "beneficial").

    pouncer further erred when he claimed the Maccabees wanted "to destroy Hellenism".
    They wanted their own independence and freedom of religion in their own land.
    Who others worshipped was not their business.
    Unlike the Seleucids, upon defeating them the Maccabees did not impose their own religion upon them.


    What stands out is how pouncer shops for faux "principles" of convenience to vent his racist hate of Jews.
    It would be even worse if these truly were his principles, only making exceptions for Jews.
    Once again it is clear that his guiding principle, uber alles, is to hate Jews.
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    May 11, 2011 12:42 AM GMT
    For anyone reading the Zionist Propaganda above from C4 and are even tempted to apply to is some measure of credibility.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>please go to the forum topic "Israel turns 63" and read C4's belittling typical response to sxydrkhair, where he comes right out with his true Zionist Propaganda believes and calously brushes of the ancestral palaestinians rights to their homeland as if it doesn't exist and goes on to say that the place is there now for the JEWS HOMELAND. See for yourself if you could support such ZIONIST CALOUSNESS TOWARD EVERYONE ELSES RIGHTS BUT THE JEWS. THAT IS ONE SICK IDEOLOGY, and if that's representative of most Israeli jews, its no damn wonder they are hated in their own region. HOW DO YOU GET THROUGH TO THESE TYPES THAT THEY INVITE HATE TO THEMSELVES BUT SUCH CALOUSNESS FOR THE PALESTINIANS RIGHTS.

    After his writing the above that I referenced and thereby making it clear where he is coming from in his Ideology toward the Palestinians, he is one hell of an OBNOXIOUS HATEFUL ZIONIST FANATIC. All that, let alone how he lies and twists and turns Pouncers senseable posts, makes him a pretty despicable person,
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    May 13, 2011 12:39 PM GMT
    Enter tokugawa. First he claims there was a "massacre" at Jaffa in 1948.
    Then he tells us why there wasn't (because the people fled) but lies about why they fled.
    That's the usual spam propaganda tactic, but it's the last paragraph that takes the cake.
    Read on....

    Caesarea4> There was no "massacre" at Jaffa.
    94% of the population fled before Jewish forces entered, the other 6% became Israeli citizens.

    tokugawa> It was Arabs (at Jaffa, Haifa, Acre, etc.) who where "thrown into the sea."

    Caesarea4> As already noted above, virtually all of Jaffa's population fled before the entry of Jewish forces into the city. As Nimr al Khatib (a leader in the Muslim Brothehrood and of the Arab Higher Committee - the agency that represented the Arabs of Mandate Palestine) wrote: "The inhabitants were more afraid of their defenders-saviours [the Arab Liberation Army] than of the Jews their enemies."

    tokugawa> The reason that so few civilians were massacred at Jaffa in 1948 is the success of Zionist propaganda
    94% of the population of Jaffa were "thrown into the sea," that is, they escaped by boat, often with just the shirt on their backs

    Caesarea4> Hardly. They packed their bags and went to the port, thinking the Jews would be pushed into the sea and they would return 2 weeks later. It is the Arab propaganda that they fell victim to.

    [Note: the "Zionist propaganda" - that the Jews would massacre Arabs that didn't flee - is actually tokugawa's propaganda.
    Just look at the Nimr Khatib quote above.]


    Caught in one lie after another, tokugawa tries to pass on yet another:

    tokugawa> The reason the Zionists did not ethnically cleanse 100% of the population of Jaffa was that some of the Palestinian workers had essential skills... [and] would be needed until Jews could learn the necessary skills and replace them.

    Caesarea4> The usual invention of "data" to suit the false preconceived notions.
    The Jews had no control over who decided to flee and who remained.

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    May 13, 2011 2:57 PM GMT
    Simply compare LEERON's ZIONIST FANATIC PROPAGANDA to the facts and take note of the tactics this DUMB FUCK uses and then you will see that LEERON is the person that exhibits "INTELLECTUAL DISHONISTY". WHAT GOD DAMNED "SHITZPAH" it takes for this LEERON to REVERSE things in such an obvious way.


    LEERON YOU KEEP OUTDOING YOURSELF IN YOUR ZIONIST FANATICISM, YOUR AN EMBARASSMENT TO MOST JEWS, AND A GREAT EXAMPLE OF WHAT NOT TO DO AND WHAT RHETORIC NOT TO USE IN SUPPORT OF ISRAEL.
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    Jun 02, 2011 1:42 AM GMT
    Desipte the existence of a specific topic in which this is discussed, the ususal suspects continue to parade their spam propaganda lie that the Palestinian Arabs descend from Jews.

    That claim was most recently regurgitated in a topic about the current Obama initiative, leading to this (one-sided) discussion:

    DNA evidence dismisses that, showing a "cousin" rather than a "descendant" relationship, dating back to the neolithic period (more than 10,000 years ago).

    pouncer> http://www.globalpolitician.com/print.asp?id=851
    "One study showed that Jews and Palestinians have common ancestry that is so recent that it is highly likely that at least some of the Palestinian blood actually descends from Jews."

    The usual idiocy of only looking at one study/source and ignoring the rest?

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11573163
    Genetic dating yielded estimates of the expansion of both haplogroups that cover the Neolithic period [circa 8000 BCE] in the region. Palestinian Arabs and Bedouin differed from the other Middle Eastern populations studied here, mainly in specific high-frequency Eu 10 haplotypes not found in the non-Arab groups. These chromosomes might have been introduced through migrations from the Arabian Peninsula during the last two millennia

    pouncer's own source is not as limited as he is and goes on to discuss other studies.
    Indeed, it is worth quoting what else his own source (not quoted selectively) says:
    There is a significant Christian population among Palestinian Arabs, leading some to claim that at least part of the Palestinian population (the Christians) descended from the original followers of Christ, who were, of course, Jews (they were Jews ethnically, even if they didn't follow Judaism). Despite extensive research, I have not been able to find any scientific studies supporting this claim.

    ...In more recent times, among Palestinian Muslims, there is a significant number of people who are recent immigrants from other Arab states. Official records of the Ottoman Empire (colonial power until WWI) and Britain (colonial power from the 1920's to 1948 ) show that there was very significant Islamic immigration into holy land. In some years, there were more Muslim new-comers than Jewish.

    I'm guessing that - once again - pouncer's "flawed" [his term] methods will lead him to now attempt to impeach his own witness/source.

    [Or, as they case is, pouncer simply fled and abandoned the discussion... only to try and push that lie again - somewhere else - in a few weeks (or days, or... hours.)]
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 28, 2011 5:15 PM GMT
    In another topic, called out on his repeated use of Iranian government controlled PressTV, propaganda pouncer lies about his prior comparison:

    pp> I asked in the course of a previous thread if the c-virus considered Britain's government-controlled BBC News to be a haven of "free speech".

    Here is exactly what propaganda pouncer said:
    You think we have freedom of the press in the UK or the US? We don't even have freedom of opinion in many cases.


    Of course, even the little he admits to having said (comparing Iranian controlled PressTV to British funded BBC) is bad enough.
    In the 2009 Reporters without Borders press freedom survey, the US and UK tie for 21st place while Iran comes in 172 (out of 175)!

    Even if he was previously ignorant... why would a sane person continue to depend on and quote PressTV?
    Could it be because their "stories" can't be found elsewhere and he needs them?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 28, 2011 11:36 PM GMT
    Caesarea4 saidIn another topic, called out on his repeated use of Iranian government controlled PressTV, propaganda pouncer lies about his prior comparison:

    pp> I asked in the course of a previous thread if the c-virus considered Britain's government-controlled BBC News to be a haven of "free speech".

    Here is exactly what propaganda pouncer said:
    You think we have freedom of the press in the UK or the US? We don't even have freedom of opinion in many cases.


    Of course, even the little he admits to having said (comparing Iranian controlled PressTV to British funded BBC) is bad enough.
    In the 2009 Reporters without Borders press freedom survey, the US and UK tie for 21st place while Iran comes in 172 (out of 175)!

    Even if he was previously ignorant... why would a sane person continue to depend on and quote PressTV?
    Could it be because their "stories" can't be found elsewhere and he needs them?

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    God your an exceptional Hypocrite LIL'AIPAC (ceaserea4) and how about your 'intellectual dishonesty ?

    Don't you have something better to do than twist, take words out of their context and distort what Pounser wrote ?


    Since your into exposing, What do you have to say for your intelectual dishonesty behind trying to portray yourself as promoting peace between the Israeli's and the Palestinians. This, while you have made veiled claim after claim, that Palestinians have no claim to the land under their feet for generations, that they have no homeland, and no Palestine to call home unless given it by Israel.

    Answer this for us LIL'AIPAC, Do you agree with your Professor father who writes "Who Needs a Second Palestinian Homeland?" Where he expresses in his article and apparently agrees with Zionist Ideolog fanatics who believe Palestinians homeland is in Jordan regardless of their having dwelled in 'Palestine' for many generations ?

    your writings here on RJ would make it appear that you do. So tell us, how do you put together your representing your for a peaceful two state solution while at the same time believing and promoting that Palestine never existed and that the Palestinians have no homeland?


    The next time you want to claim someone else "intellectually dishonest" you might look yourself in the mirror and then keep your hypocritical mouth shut and your hands away from a keyboard.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 28, 2011 11:38 PM GMT
    You are wasting your time.

    Reallifedad hates Jews. That is well known from long ago.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Oct 29, 2011 3:31 AM GMT
    TroyAthlete saidYou are wasting your time.

    Reallifedad hates Jews. That is well known from long ago.





    Would you like to substantiate this accusation of yours TroyAthlete ?


    Please do show proof by just one sentence where I've said I hate jews? where I've written some statement saying I would like to see, or that I promote the destruction of Israel ?

    How about just one quote which would constitute Anti Semitism?

    Do the same for Pouncer too, show us proof of hate from what we've written?

    Between us, we've written quite a few facts and exposed a lot of information, but you'll not find us hating Jews. I wish you luck, and while your looking, read some of the facts and let them sink in.

    And don't come back with the typical jew hater accusation based on my or pouncers, exposing some facts that you may not want to admit. or that you don't want exposed as truth, because its based on accepted propaganda.


    SO LETS HAVE YOUR PROOF