Trenbolone for androgen replacement therapy

  • Hunkymonkey

    Posts: 215

    Mar 21, 2011 7:26 AM GMT
    (In a nutshell, low dose test plus low dose tren enanthate makes a good TRT combination. In my experience, injecting weekly is best).


    http://www.mesomorphosis.com/blog/trenbolone-for-androgen-replacement-therapy/2719/

    The use of the anabolic steroid trenbolone has a long history in the bodybuilding but it has never really been considered a steroid suitable for therapeutic use in medicine. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has not approved tren for use in humans. The media has often demonized it as a dangerous veterinarian steroid never intended for human use. However, the perception of trenbolone may soon change with the publication of a favorable study in a major scientific journal.

    Joshua Yarrow and his colleagues at the University of Florida feel that trenbolone may be a viable alternative to testosterone for androgen replacement therapy. They are set to publish their study results in the February 2011 issue of the American Journal of Physiology – Endocrinology and Metabolism.

    The researchers report that trenbolone enanthate may have certain advantages over testosterone that may make it an appealing treatment option for some individuals. Bodybuilders may be familiar with many of these findings.

    Trenbolone is not adversely affected by the aromatase or 5-alpha reductase enzymes that metabolize testosterone into estradiol and dihydrotestosterone, respectively. Bodybuilders have enjoyed tren for years precisely because they are able to avoid steroid side effects related to estrogen and DHT.

    Yarrow reports that low-dose trenbolone enanthate effectively produces anabolic effects in muscle size and partially maintains bone mineral density without causing prostate enlargement or polycythemia in castrated laboratory rats.

    Supraphysiological dosages of testosterone enanthate were required to produce anabolic effects similar to low-dose trenbolone administration. However, negative side effects of prostate enlargement and elevated hemoglobin became problematic at this dose of testosterone.

    Selective androgen receptor modulators (SARMs) may be the current darlings of scientific research into alternative options for androgen replacement therapy, but University of Florida researchers are excited by the “SARM-like potential” of trenbolone.

    They suggest that the actions of trenbolone are similar to selective androgen receptor modulators (SARMs). Low-dose trenbolone is called “SARM-like” because of the positive anabolic effects in muscle and bone without negative side androgenic side effects of prostate enlargement or polycythemia.

    Trenbolone may have benefits over testosterone in terms of androgen receptor activation, the upregulation of growth factors such as IGF-1 and fibroblast growth factor, and anticatabolic mechanisms.

    Competitive bodybuilders have often preferred using trenbolone in the weeks prior to a bodybuilding competition due to its purported effects at accelerating fat loss.

    The current study confirmed that trenbolone has more potent lipolytic effects on visceral adipose tissue than testosterone milligram per milligram. Furthermore, visceral fat loss increased in a dose-dependent manner with trenbolone. In other words, the more tren used, the greater the fat loss.

    Trenbolone’s lack of aromatization, while generally desirable, has often been problematic for bodybuilders who have used trenbolone as the only steroid in a cycle. Therefore, most bodybuilders include an aromatizable steroid such as testosterone or Dianabol in their trenbolone steroid stacks.

    Researchers also recognize that the lack of aromatization could be a potential problem if trenbolone is used alone in androgen replacement therapy. In their study, trenbolone only provided a partial bone protective effect when administered to castrated rats. The authors attribute this to the non-aromatizable nature of trenbolone.

    They conclude that low-dose trenbolone enanthate treatment has SARM-like effects on muscle/fat body composition. Androgen replacement therapy with low-dose trenbolone could potentially produce anabolic gains comparable to supraphysiological testosterone treatment without the associated side effects. The therapeutic risk-benefit profile of low-dose trenbolone appears superior to supraphysiological testosterone treatment; however, additional research into this treatment option is necessary.

    The researchers should be applauded for dispassionately and objectively researching the potential of trenbolone in androgen replacement therapy. Trenbolone is an anabolic steroid that has been demonized more than others due to its limited use (in pellet implants used by veterinarians to increase muscle growth in livestock). Fortunately, they looked past the political stigma associated with trenbolone to revisit a therapeutic use for an old steroid.

    Special thanks to Michael Scally, M.D. for his diligence in staying on top of anabolic steroid medical research and sharing this study with MESO-Rx.

    Yarrow JF et. al. 7{beta}-hydroxyestra-4,9,11-trien-3-one (Trenbolone) Exhibits Tissue Selective Anabolic Activity: Effects on Muscle, Bone, Adiposity, Hemoglobin, and Prostate. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2011 Jan 25. [Epub ahead of print]


  • laguna07

    Posts: 124

    Mar 21, 2011 2:03 PM GMT
    Tren E should always be used with a testosterone product (with long ester) of slightly higher dose to avoid sexual disfunction, a common side effect if tren is used alone. Anti estrogen therapy may also be required for certain individuals.
  • neosyllogy

    Posts: 1714

    Mar 21, 2011 2:24 PM GMT
    Interesting.
    Definitely following this line of work more, preparing for when HRT is eventually right for my body.
    It is worth emphasizing that the work above is in rats, not humans though.
  • Hunkymonkey

    Posts: 215

    Mar 21, 2011 4:18 PM GMT
    so you aren't a gym rat? icon_biggrin.gif
  • laguna07

    Posts: 124

    Mar 21, 2011 7:03 PM GMT
    LOL!!!
  • neosyllogy

    Posts: 1714

    Mar 22, 2011 3:36 AM GMT
    Hunkymonkey saidso you aren't a gym rat? icon_biggrin.gif


    Wait, are you asking me?
    I don't use any "gear". That said, while I'm not using roids now, the body progressively produces less testosterone. As it stands I fully intend to do male hormone replacement therapy (HRT) when that time comes.
    Definitely watching the studies to see what's best when the time comes. I'm also a science nerd (I mean, um... "aficionado"), so, you know, I just enjoy it icon_biggrin.gif

    [I'm not really a gym rat though, I only lift 1-2x per week nowadays; I just train for sports a lot, 6-7x per week : ) Sometimes I wish I used steroids, just so I could train more/longer/harder ... icon_neutral.gif]
  • Hunkymonkey

    Posts: 215

    Mar 22, 2011 2:20 PM GMT
    MuchMoreThanMuscle saidSo what is considered a low dose that can create the desired effects in this article?

    Years ago when used trenbolone I had issues with sexual dysfunction. It does burn off the fat and I looked wickedly tight and pumped everywhere.


    What is low-dose varies from person to person. This can be established by blood tests. The goal is to get your testo levels into the 800 to 1000 range. For me, that requires 150mg of test enanthate per week. My thinking is to substitute about 40% of that with trenbolone enanthate, thus staying at a total of 150mg per week. I admit the 40% is arbitrary, but then again, trenbolone is more potent than testosterone.
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    Mar 22, 2011 4:49 PM GMT
    As it stands I full intend to do male hormone replacement therapy (HRT) when that time comes.

    And when does that time come? Knowing it's only going to go down, how low does your testosterone count have to be before you do something about it? I keep mine between 800-1000 and I wish I'd started therapy much sooner than I had.
  • neosyllogy

    Posts: 1714

    Mar 22, 2011 6:12 PM GMT
    nwdc_muscle saidAs it stands I full intend to do male hormone replacement therapy (HRT) when that time comes.

    And when does that time come? Knowing it's only going to go down, how low does your testosterone count have to be before you do something about it? I keep mine between 800-1000 and I wish I'd started therapy much sooner than I had.


    <300 is generally what is considered hypogonadism. At least that's what seems to be used as the marker in most of the primary literature I've read. Perhaps there's more flexibility with regard to that threshold?

    Mine is like... 560 as of a few weeks ago I think (520?, I forget). Which, I know, is in the lower range of "normal".
    I'd certainly prefer it be above 800 I think, I'm not sure how much say I have in this. I'd be curious to hear others' opinions and thoughts on this though.

    There is of course the option of getting non-prescription drugs. The two most pressing problems in that case (logistics, cost, etc. aside) to me seem to be: 1. quality control (of the drug) 2. getting my test. levels tested to make sure I'm in a safe and healthy range (since everyone will have a different response) - not sure I could explain that to my doc...

    I don't know. Are there ways to get on HRT with levels above 300? Certainly some form of supplementation is common among many in the sport I train, because overtraining is so easy; and that's a wall I often run into when balancing training with heavy work schedule.

    Thoughts and info from those with more experience appreciated.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 22, 2011 6:19 PM GMT
    I thought I read Toblerone on the title and clicked here expecting to find chocolate icon_sad.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 22, 2011 6:21 PM GMT
    Ariodante saidI thought I read Toblerone on the title and clicked here expecting to find chocolate icon_sad.gif

    How about a brownie?

    j968le.jpg
  • neosyllogy

    Posts: 1714

    Mar 22, 2011 6:21 PM GMT
    Ariodante saidI thought I read Toblerone on the title and clicked here expecting to find chocolate icon_sad.gif

    In sufficiently calorie restricted rats a treatment consisting of oral injection of toblerone would increase testosterone levels ... so... I guess there's a bridge between the topics there...
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 22, 2011 6:24 PM GMT
    neosyllogy said
    Ariodante saidI thought I read Toblerone on the title and clicked here expecting to find chocolate icon_sad.gif

    In sufficiently calorie restricted rats treatment oral injection of toblerone would increase testosterone levels ... so... I guess there's a bridge between the topics there...


    Wait are you saying there's a possibility of someone caging me and feeding me chocolate through a syringe or is that some sick fantasy I just cobbled together for no discernible reason
  • neosyllogy

    Posts: 1714

    Mar 22, 2011 6:28 PM GMT
    ^^^ I said specifically said "rats", though yes, it should extend to humans as well.
    As to your actual question ...I'll avoid direct comment. icon_eek.gif (Though... it would make for a hilarious art-porn video, of which there is a dearth...)

    PS: People who were discussing this thread seriously, please do continue to do so! icon_biggrin.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 22, 2011 9:07 PM GMT
    neosyllogy saidMine is like... 560 as of a few weeks ago I think (520?, I forget). Which, I know, is in the lower range of "normal".
    I'd certainly prefer it be above 800 I think, I'm not sure how much say I have in this.


    I'm very interested in this thread. Mine is at 405 and the doctor (a respected local gay doctor, BTW) keeps telling me it's "normal" - he has his own in-house lab with no reference range for this test. I've had some of the symptoms of low testosterone and for now have dealt with them in "other ways." He did refer me a urologist, but I am also leery about the side effects of TRT so I haven't gone yet. One more thing to keep a watch on as I age...icon_mad.gif
  • Hunkymonkey

    Posts: 215

    Mar 23, 2011 8:22 PM GMT
    As I understand it, 405 is normal if you are producing it. My doc, an endocrinologist says that for exogenous test, it needs to be higher. He told me the target is 800 to 1000.
  • neosyllogy

    Posts: 1714

    Mar 24, 2011 1:11 AM GMT
    neosyllogy said
    nwdc_muscle saidAs it stands I full intend to do male hormone replacement therapy (HRT) when that time comes.

    And when does that time come? Knowing it's only going to go down, how low does your testosterone count have to be before you do something about it? I keep mine between 800-1000 and I wish I'd started therapy much sooner than I had.


    <300 is generally what is considered hypogonadism. At least that's what seems to be used as the marker in most of the primary literature I've read. Perhaps there's more flexibility with regard to that threshold?

    Mine is like... 560 as of a few weeks ago I think (520?, I forget). Which, I know, is in the lower range of "normal".
    I'd certainly prefer it be above 800 I think, I'm not sure how much say I have in this. I'd be curious to hear others' opinions and thoughts on this though.

    There is of course the option of getting non-prescription drugs. The two most pressing problems in that case (logistics, cost, etc. aside) to me seem to be: 1. quality control (of the drug) 2. getting my test. levels tested to make sure I'm in a safe and healthy range (since everyone will have a different response) - not sure I could explain that to my doc...

    I don't know. Are there ways to get on HRT with levels above 300? Certainly some form of supplementation is common among many in the sport I train, because overtraining is so easy; and that's a wall I often run into when balancing training with heavy work schedule.

    Thoughts and info from those with more experience appreciated.

    TTT
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    Mar 24, 2011 1:40 AM GMT
    I'm supposed to go to the VA sometime soon to get mine checked. I wonder if my levels are a lil low, I wonder if they will be what is considered above normal because of how often I work out. I wonder what they would be if I didn't lift, I have considered quitting the gym for a week or so, then getting my levels tested so it would reflect on a more average level, i wonder how much working out skews the results in favor of looking normal, even though they should be higher because I work out
  • neosyllogy

    Posts: 1714

    Mar 24, 2011 12:09 PM GMT
    Johnnyhotsauce saidI'm supposed to go to the VA sometime soon to get mine checked. I wonder if my levels are a lil low, I wonder if they will be what is considered above normal because of how often I work out. I wonder what they would be if I didn't lift, I have considered quitting the gym for a week or so, then getting my levels tested so it would reflect on a more average level, i wonder how much working out skews the results in favor of looking normal, even though they should be higher because I work out


    Yeah, I've wondered similar things.
    I'm, for the most part, a 'model patient'. I don't drink or smoke, work to get adequate sleep regularly, eat carefully and well, get lots of exercise, etc. I probably stress far more than I should, but otherwise...

    So, to some degree I'm 'self-treating'. Some dude comes in sloppy fat, doesn't make positive health choices, he can get treatment in a situation where I wouldn't be able to.
    One can make arguments that that's reasonable, but it's more than a bit annoying if you think treatment could improve your life and work. icon_neutral.gif
  • Hunkymonkey

    Posts: 215

    Mar 24, 2011 4:18 PM GMT
    Well, the alternative is to get your own blood work done (or let the doc do it), then self-medicate. Better to work with a doc if you can find one (try longevity clinics), because certain problems can crop up from time to time from injudicious self-medicating.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 28, 2011 1:58 AM GMT
    After reading all theses HRT related threads, I have to ask.. How much does all this cost per month?
  • MikemikeMike

    Posts: 6932

    Mar 28, 2011 2:44 AM GMT
    Go naturalicon_exclaim.gificon_exclaim.gif
  • Hunkymonkey

    Posts: 215

    Mar 28, 2011 8:13 PM GMT
    You will only find tren as an underground or mexican vet product, unfortunately. Still, there are some good quality brands. a 10ml bottle of tren acetate will run up to about $80. A 10ml bottle of tren enanthate (preferred choice) will probably go for up to $100.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 05, 2011 4:44 AM GMT
    nwdc_muscle saidAs it stands I full intend to do male hormone replacement therapy (HRT) when that time comes.

    And when does that time come? Knowing it's only going to go down, how low does your testosterone count have to be before you do something about it? I keep mine between 800-1000 and I wish I'd started therapy much sooner than I had.


    When did you start HRT and when would you recommend it to others? How low did yours go before you started supplementing?
  • laguna07

    Posts: 124

    Apr 05, 2011 4:52 AM GMT
    Tren is a very harsh drug with more side effects than most all injectable anabolic steroids. It is best to use by experienced "juicers" for cycles of short duration. TRT administration is a different story. Have not heard about using tren for this purpose, but would have to think it would be a low dose for constant use, and could only be used with a testosterone product.