Canadian Government topples on Contempt of Parliament Motion - triggers snap May election

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    Mar 25, 2011 7:54 PM GMT
    photo_1484571_resize_article.jpg
    Prime Minister Stephen Harper speaks to reporters after the collapse of the Government in the foyer of the House of Commons on Parliament Hill in Ottawa on Friday, March 25, 2011.


    The federal Conservative government has been brought down on a historic vote in Parliament, setting the stage for a May election.

    MPs voted 156-145 in favour of a Liberal motion today citing Stephen Harper's minority Tories for contempt of Parliament and expressing non-confidence in the government.

    Harper is set to visit the Governor General's residence Saturday morning to dissolve the 40th Parliament and sound the starting gun on an election campaign. It will be the fourth election in seven years.

    The contempt charge marks a first for a national government anywhere in the Commonwealth.The Bloc Quebecois and the NDP both supported the Liberal non-confidence motion, fuelling angry Conservative denunciations of a "reckless'' and "undemocratic'' coalition.

    But Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff says there can be no more profound cause for an election than the protection of democracy.
    Commons Speaker Peter Milliken and an opposition-dominated committee had already found a case for contempt, and the Liberals ensured that would be the trigger for the defeat of the government 29 months after the last election.

    The opposition parties wasted no time pounding home their campaign message, slamming the prime minister as a secretive leader who abuses power and leads a government plagued by scandal.

    In the past month, the Conservative party and four of its top officials have been charged with election overspending and two RCMP investigations have been launched against former political staffers.

    Ignatieff kicked off debate on the confidence motion this morning, accusing Harper of subverting democracy.

    "You have spoken, Mr. Speaker. The committee has spoken, and now the House must speak with a clear voice,'' Ignatieff told the Commons.

    "And it must say that a government that breaks the rules and conceals facts from the Canadian people does not deserve to remain in office.''

    Ignatieff acknowledged that some Canadians are questioning the need for another election.

    "We did not seek an election,'' he said. "But if we need one to replace a government that doesn't respect democracy with one that does, I can't think of a more necessary election.''

    John Baird, the Conservative House leader, responded that he was "saddened'' by the premature end to Canada's 40th Parliament.

    That end is coming, said Baird, "because of the reckless actions of the Liberal, Bloc Quebecois and NDP coalition in forcing an unwanted an unnecessary election on Canadians.''


    After the vote, Speaker Peter Milliken addressed Stephen Harper as a member of Parliament rather than as prime minister when Harper rose to move the House adjourn. Conservative MPs left the House chamber quickly for a caucus meeting.

    Harper later addressed reporters and said he would meet the Governor General on Saturday "to inform him of the situation and to take the only course of action that remains," referring to the disolution of Parliament and an immediate election campaign.

    Harper is expected to campaign on this week's federal budget which was laden with tightly targeted tax credits and riding-specific goodies, while simultaneously accusing his opponents of plotting to form a coalition government if he fails to win a majority.

    The NDP said the budget fails to deliver real relief to beleaguered seniors, understaffed health-care systems, and middle-class Canadians burdened by home heating fuel taxes.

    NDP Leader Jack Layton was still imploring the government to rewrite it's budget as late as Friday morning's final question period in the House.

    "They're just plain stubborn,'' said Layton. "Why are Conservatives intent on provoking an election?''

    Prospective voters have been bombarded with $26 million worth of feel-good Economic Action Plan ads over the past 11 weeks and bureaucrats were directed late last year to start using the ``Harper Government'' in place of Government of Canada on departmental news releases.

    Taxpayer-funded ads from the Finance Department warned of the "fragile'' nature of the economic recovery, and Baird alluded to the threat again in the Commons.

    "...The contempt charge marks a first for a national government anywhere in the Commonwealth." - "It's a vote that will weaken Canada's economic recovery,'' he said of the Liberal motion.

    The government's economic message, however, appears to be taking a backseat to its dire warnings of a Liberal-led coalition threat.

    Ignatieff has tried to polarize the coming election into a two-party fight between Harper Conservatives and those who oppose them _ between ``a blue door and a red door.''

    Conservatives are trying to convince Canadians otherwise.

    "Lurking behind the red door are socialists and separatists plotting for cabinet seats!'' thundered MP Dean Del Mastro in the Commons.

    The alarmist Conservative talk was scoffed at by Bloc Leader Gilles Duceppe, who has pointedly noted that Harper proposed defeating Paul Martin's minority Liberal government on its throne speech in 2004 and replacing it, with NDP and Bloc backing.Duceppe revelled in the details this week, describing the Delta Hotel on Maissonneuve Boulevard in Montreal where Harper convened the conspirators.

    "He was coming in my office saying, 'If Martin is going to lose confidence, what do you want in the throne speech? What would you like in the budget?''' Duceppe recalled.

    Ignatieff attempted to inoculate himself Friday against the nasty, brutish and short election campaign that appears likely in light of recent inflamed rhetoric from all sides of the House.

    "Enough of the politics of fear,'' he said. ``Enough of the politics of division. Enough of the politics of personal destruction. Enough is enough.''

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2011/03/25/pol-defeat.html

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    Mar 25, 2011 8:18 PM GMT
    Can one even imagine the USA with a parliamentary-type government?icon_eek.gif
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    Mar 25, 2011 8:21 PM GMT
    For non-Canadians:


    This is Stephen Harper's final kick at the can under his party's rules. If he fails to win majority three times, he is expected to resign as leader of the Conservative Party.

    That would create a Leadership race at which the Progressive wing will try to reassert control oft he Party (probably under Peter MacKay).

    Similarly, a failure by the Liberal leader to win a majority would trigger a leadership convention for the Liberal Party, who would choose a new leader.

    Whatever the outcome, its political hardball time in Canada, - do or die last chance for each leader.

    It will be a very entertaining campaign. so RJ readers can expect a lot of threads that won't interest them. icon_wink.gif

    But I know a lot of my American friends will be watching. (Hi Caslon!)

    Fortunately for everyone our silly season is short -- - whole campaign isfast and furious with election day on May 2.
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    Mar 25, 2011 8:23 PM GMT
    Lets hope we see the same thing happen in Oz with Our Communist Greens (bob Brown), and Socialists Labour (Julia Gillard) government being kicked out of power some time soon too.
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    Mar 25, 2011 8:28 PM GMT
    Opposition leaders react

    mi-ignatieff-300-00395990.jpg

    Liberal leader Michael Ignatieff says the Conservative government had lost the confidence of the House of Commons, as he speaks in support of a motion to defeat the government Friday. Adrian Wyld/Canadian Press


    Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff addressed reporters after Harper.

    "We've seen an historic moment in our democracy ... a prime minister condemned by the chamber for contempt," Ignatieff said. "He's lost the confidence of the House of Commons."

    "Over 36 days we'll present an appeal to Canadians who don't just want to restrain him but replace him," Ignatieff said in reference to the campaign.

    Ignatieff was repeatedly pressed by reporters to state "yes" or "no" to the question of whether he would seek to form a coalition government in the event of another Conservative minority, but he would only say he was focused on presenting a Liberal alternative to the Conservatives.

    "If you vote for the NDP, if you vote for the Bloc, if you vote for the Greens, you will get more of this," Ignatieff said, gesturing back to the House chamber. "More contempt for democracy, more neglect of the priorities of Canadian families."

    NDP Leader Jack Layton portrayed his party as the alternative to the Conservatives."New Democrats will be all across the country taking on the Conservatives, and we'll show that we're the only party capable of defeating the Conservatives coast to coast to coast," Layton said.

    "Ottawa is clearly broken and this election is going to be about how we're going to fix it," Layton added.

    Bloc Leader Gilles Duceppe said Harper "wanted an election and he got an election."


    A historic vote

    Only five other non-confidence votes have happened in Canada's history, according to information on the Library of Parliament website. This is the first time it has occurred because a majority of MPs voted that they believed the government was in contempt of Parliament.

    Former Conservative — now Independent — MP Helena Guergis and independent MP André Arthur both voted against the Liberal motion. Liberal MP Keith Martin, who is not seeking re-election, was not in the House for the vote.

    In the moments before the vote, many opposing MPs, including Harper and Ignatieff shook hands.
    icon_eek.gif

    Liberal leader Michael Ignatieff says the Conservative government had lost the confidence of the House of Commons, as he speaks in support of a motion to defeat the government Friday. Adrian Wyld/Canadian PressIgnatieff had kicked off debate earlier Friday, urging MPs to defeat the government.

    "A government that breaks the rules and conceals the facts from the Canadian people does not deserve to remain in office," he said.

    The motion said the House agrees with a Commons committee report tabled earlier this week that found the government in contempt of Parliament, "which is unprecedented in Canadian parliamentary history, and consequently the House has lost confidence in the Government."

    Speaking for the Tories, Government House Leader John Baird said the opposition is ending the work of a Parliament that's gotten a lot done recently.

    "The Liberal members over there claimed to have found that the government has done something wrong," Baird said. "What they aren't telling Canadians is that this was an opposition-stacked committee who used the tyranny of the majority to get the predetermined outcome they wanted."


    Earlier this week, the procedure and House affairs committee tabled a report that said the government is in contempt of parliament for refusing to supply enough information on the cost of the F-35 fighter jets, their justice system reforms and their projections for corporate profits and tax rates.

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    Mar 25, 2011 8:37 PM GMT
    the Liberals will paint Harper's as uniquely corrupt in the history of the Commonwealth, and I think that will resound with Canadians. (we do not like to stand out in the Commonwealth except as the shiniest light). Canadians smugly consider themselves the rich golden children of the Commonwealth and this embarasses us in the eyes of the "family". That is not easily forgiven as it goes to very core of how we want to perceive ourselves and the world to see us.

    The Opposition need only pound home the message "if he did this with a minority government, he would be totally out of control with a majority.

    This is gold for an election issue. No matter how the Conservatives try to frame the issues, the single and sole issue that looms over all is his government was the first ever found to be in Contempt of Parliament.

    That fits perfectly into the Opposition's narrative of the dangerous and secretive bogeyman that Harper would be in power. stomping over our treasured and social programs).

    Harper (IMHO) is toast with the voters. Canadian pride themselves of playing by the rules and Harper flouted the biggest of them.

    6 weeks is too short a time for the public to lose sight of why his government was brought down. -- The Liberals have always played on Canadians fear and suspicion of a "hidden agenda" of the secretive Harper. and he has played right into their hands.

    icon_biggrin.gif
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    Mar 25, 2011 8:43 PM GMT
    Generally more reliable than polls:

    The betting market Intrade puts the Conservatives as currently most likely to win (currently 75%):
    http://intrade.com/v4/markets/?eventClassId=19

    For the life of me I don't get the timing of this on behalf of the Liberals (and I'm not even a fan of Harper):
    http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/03/25/tasha-kheiriddin-if-its-1993-again-the-liberals-should-be-worried/
    But the real losers here are the Liberals. As the 40th Parliament dissolved, the latest poll shows the Tories with a 19% lead. The only possible spin the Liberals can put on this is to remind people of the 1993 election, which started off with PC Prime Minister Kim Campbell riding so high in the polls, she practically disappeared for a while, before crashing to earth with the worst electoral showing in her party’s history.
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    Mar 25, 2011 8:48 PM GMT
    Unless that poll was taken after this vote, it is totally irrelevant now.

    The reason the government fell is a total game changer.
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    Mar 25, 2011 8:52 PM GMT
    Care to make a wager on the outcome riddler?


    I will already predict Harper will not win a majority. the campaign will determine whether we finally get a coalition government (which for the first time would truly represent the desires of the majority of voterst hrough cabinet level compromise)

    All perfectly Canadian.


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    Mar 25, 2011 8:52 PM GMT
    Upper_Canadian saidUnless that poll was taken after this vote, it is totally irrelevant now.

    The reason the government fell is a total game changer.


    The betting markets are real time.
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    Mar 25, 2011 8:54 PM GMT
    I can only hope the liberals don't flub this golden opportunity. They should hit and hit hard in their campaign tv ads after all the Harpers have no problem doing it.

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    Mar 25, 2011 8:56 PM GMT
    Upper_Canadian saidCare to make a wager on the outcome riddler?


    I will already predict Harper will not win a majority. the campaign will determine whether we finally get a coalition government (which for the first time would truly represent the desires of the majority of voterst hrough cabinet level compromise)

    All perfectly Canadian.


    I'd bet with you but I think we'd be betting on the same thing. I think the Conservatives will likely form another minority government. Though oddly, a friend who doesn't tend to lean right thinks they'll get a majority.
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    Mar 25, 2011 8:58 PM GMT
    beneful1 saidI can only hope the liberals don't flub this golden opportunity. They should hit and hit hard in their campaign tv ads after all the Harpers have no problem doing it.


    The Liberals have never had a problem with playing dirty pool - that's one of the reasons why they've been almost consistently Canada's governing party (so much so, that's why Paul Martin lost following adscam).
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    Mar 25, 2011 9:03 PM GMT
    It just happened . Let's see what it says tomorrow once people hace time to think not react (I know, nit's ot the preferred approach for the right wing -- go with what feels good, don't no need to think ) Andfirst impressions are always right to the right-wing thinker.



    Very intersting and revealing, our responses . It demonstrated pe5rfectly the how the rigjht winger thinks.


    I ctually changed my prediction from my first gut impression from what I thought ugh I was going to write and I ended up with as I was laying out my thinking.

    you did not address my rationales at all and stuck with your gut instinct and totally ignore how the vote will actually play with the public once they tink about it.

    Conservatives - rigid tinking along fixed lines.

    Left wingers think it through and decide FTER instead of deciding then not thinking and trying to not think of awkward questions.


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    Mar 25, 2011 9:04 PM GMT
    Question.
    If the liberals had someone other than Ignatieff. Say like Justin Trudeau as party leader... do you think their popularity would increase. I do solely by gathering the support of the non-informed and younger set who would vote for him based on his looks etc.
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    Mar 25, 2011 9:11 PM GMT
    beneful1 saidQuestion.
    If the liberals had someone other than Ignatieff. Say like Justin Trudeau as party leader... do you think their popularity would increase. I do solely by gathering the support of the non-informed and younger set who would vote for him based on his looks etc.


    Understanding your hoping for another wave of Trudeaumania, that era has sailed. Especially given what's happening in the US, I think Canadians are even more cautious about spending. Further, for all that the Conservatives have been branded as scary,etc, they really haven't come across that way in governance (and especially considering the Liberals were considering allying themselves with the BQ it's quite an ironic charge to make). I'm sure the betting markets will be more alive by tomorrow as to whether or not we'll see a majority government - but at least so far, the odds are quite clearly favoring the Conservatives as having the most seats.
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    Mar 25, 2011 9:16 PM GMT
    Actually you're right about them not coming across that way in governance. That in itself is kind of scary. I just cannot get past the fact that I do not trust Harper.
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    Mar 25, 2011 9:42 PM GMT
    riddler78 said
    beneful1 saidQuestion.
    If the liberals had someone other than Ignatieff. Say like Justin Trudeau as party leader... do you think their popularity would increase. I do solely by gathering the support of the non-informed and younger set who would vote for him based on his looks etc.


    Understanding your hoping for another wave of Trudeaumania, that era has sailed. Especially given what's happening in the US, I think Canadians are even more cautious about spending. Further, for all that the Conservatives have been branded as scary,etc, they really haven't come across that way in governance (and especially considering the Liberals were considering allying themselves with the BQ it's quite an ironic charge to make). I'm sure the betting markets will be more alive by tomorrow as to whether or not we'll see a majority government - but at least so far, the odds are quite clearly favoring the Conservatives as having the most seats.


    backward thinking again, riddler. Trudeau was decades ago.

    Try looking ahead. Trudeau has been dead for a long time and his son is too young yet to run for the leadership. We tend not to go for dynastic politics the way the Americans do . Why would you think anyone now would want a politician from the 60s? Do you really live so much in the past?


    That truly is typical of the right wing mind.

    Still obsessed with Trudeau??

    Fuck man we are in a new millenium! Join us!
    icon_rolleyes.gif

    From here we can see it wasn't so great in the sepia toned 20th century thatsome boomers want to think they lived in.

    (You are too young to remmber the October Crisis of 1970 when the troops were in our schools and the RCMP was making mass arrests.

    The PM was just shamed in the eyes of the world , branded what in Parliamentary terms is a criminal and the best you can come up with is some inane reference to a politician from half a century ago.

    No wonder the right is derided with such contempt. As soon as it gets awkward for you go off on some tangent.

    southbeach is a mental defective but wtf is your excuse for never sticking to a point or ever stating a premise then never being able to defend it with a cogent and factual argument.
    have some pride!

    Smarten up an and do your nation proud with more intellectual rigor.


    honest, fellow RJers those of us who were born here and grew up through our school system are more capable than riddler.

    (I honestly don't think riddler is Canadian by birth because he seems so poorly informed on Canadian civics and history. He does not seem to know things that a person his age in Canada would have lived through. Nor does he present premise and argument the way we are taught throughout our school years.

    Hence readers will see a similar structure in MIL's arguments and mine; we are products of similar generation with- similar education. We display a similar arguing style.

    riddler, by contrast, presents his arguments very differently, in quite an atypical fashion for one supposedly schooled in Canada or the U.S.

    His knowledge is more like that of an upper class newcomer (I am thinking perhaps part of the Hong Kong exodus before it was handed back to China).

    His attitudes are also similiar to Cuban-Americans who, bitter at having lost their privilege ansstatus in the Castro revolution., went to Florida and became ultra right wing again -- much like riddler.

    It just seems to fit. The wealthy of Hong Kong wre privileged ther but when they came here they find themselves on the low rung, hence the angry attitude.

    Or he is playing us and just acting like a fool.

    I graduated (first from a private |American school overseas ) in 1979 (AFCENT International School in th Netherlands) after going to school in Quebec, Montreal, and Ottawa.

    I returned to Earl of March H.S, in Ottawa to graduate ( I felt too young for college so after graduating grade 12 I took grade 13 that still existed in Ontario).

    Then I did courses at Algonquin College & Ottawa University (both in Ottawa)

    What schools did you go to, riddler?

    There is absolutely nothing better or worse about being native, Canadian born, or newcomer to Canada. II prefer to welcome newcomers and help them integrate into what can be a very different society.

    I just don't want to berate you for your knowledge gaps or argument style if you were not taught as we were and I will try to figure out the patterning and cope (or just ignore you like poor southbeach).
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    Mar 25, 2011 9:57 PM GMT
    Thank goodness!
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    Mar 25, 2011 10:06 PM GMT
    Upper_Canadian said
    riddler78 said
    beneful1 saidQuestion.
    If the liberals had someone other than Ignatieff. Say like Justin Trudeau as party leader... do you think their popularity would increase. I do solely by gathering the support of the non-informed and younger set who would vote for him based on his looks etc.


    Understanding your hoping for another wave of Trudeaumania, that era has sailed. Especially given what's happening in the US, I think Canadians are even more cautious about spending. Further, for all that the Conservatives have been branded as scary,etc, they really haven't come across that way in governance (and especially considering the Liberals were considering allying themselves with the BQ it's quite an ironic charge to make). I'm sure the betting markets will be more alive by tomorrow as to whether or not we'll see a majority government - but at least so far, the odds are quite clearly favoring the Conservatives as having the most seats.


    backward thinking again, riddler. Trudeau was decades ago.

    Try looking ahead. Trudeau has been dead for a long time and his son is too young yet to run for the leadership. We tend not to go for dynastic politics the way the Americans do . Why would you think anyone now would want a politician from the 60s? Do you really live so much in the past?

    That truly is typical of the right wing mind.

    Still obsessed with Trudeau??

    Fuck man we are in a new millenium! Join us!
    icon_rolleyes.gif

    From here we can see it wasn't so great in the sepia toned 20th century that the boomers want to think they lived in.


    Are you that unhinged? Can't take a little criticism or questioning? icon_rolleyes.gif - you obviously haven't kept pace with the press on this side of the country - many reporters who fawn over Justin Trudeau precisely because he's a Trudeau. Further, I wasn't the one who raised the possibility - unless you're saying beneful1, to whom I was responding on the Justin Trudeau possibility, is from HK/China? I mean by your logic it fits? What I think is particularly funny is how you hold yourself and your long, rambling, and largely unreadable post as an example of intellectual rigor icon_razz.gif

    I feel sorry for MIL given that you've compared his reasoning with yours. And um no, while I don't think my background has any relevance - I was born and raised in Canada for the record (was a side of ad hominem attacks part of your esteemed education in logic and reasoning?). Just had some good sense to think independently and think critically. If you had something reasonable to argue, I'd be more willing to frame a counterargument. So far all I've said on the matter is that while I am not comfortable with Stephen Harper, so far it looks like the odds are very much for his party winning the most seats as per intrade and the strong favorable polls for the Conservatives over the other parties. What you have at best is wishful thinking.
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    Mar 25, 2011 10:24 PM GMT
    riddler78 said
    Upper_Canadian said
    riddler78 said
    beneful1 saidQuestion.
    If the liberals had someone other than Ignatieff. Say like Justin Trudeau as party leader... do you think their popularity would increase. I do solely by gathering the support of the non-informed and younger set who would vote for him based on his looks etc.


    Understanding your hoping for another wave of Trudeaumania, that era has sailed. Especially given what's happening in the US, I think Canadians are even more cautious about spending. Further, for all that the Conservatives have been branded as scary,etc, they really haven't come across that way in governance (and especially considering the Liberals were considering allying themselves with the BQ it's quite an ironic charge to make). I'm sure the betting markets will be more alive by tomorrow as to whether or not we'll see a majority government - but at least so far, the odds are quite clearly favoring the Conservatives as having the most seats.


    backward thinking again, riddler. Trudeau was decades ago.

    Try looking ahead. Trudeau has been dead for a long time and his son is too young yet to run for the leadership. We tend not to go for dynastic politics the way the Americans do . Why would you think anyone now would want a politician from the 60s? Do you really live so much in the past?

    That truly is typical of the right wing mind.

    Still obsessed with Trudeau??

    Fuck man we are in a new millenium! Join us!
    icon_rolleyes.gif

    From here we can see it wasn't so great in the sepia toned 20th century that the boomers want to think they lived in.


    Are you that unhinged? Can't take a little criticism or questioning? icon_rolleyes.gif - you obviously haven't kept pace with the press on this side of the country - many reporters who fawn over Justin Trudeau precisely because he's a Trudeau. Further, I wasn't the one who raised the possibility - unless you're saying beneful1, to whom I was responding on the Justin Trudeau possibility, is from HK/China? I mean by your logic it fits? What I think is particularly funny is how you hold yourself and your long, rambling, and largely unreadable post as an example of intellectual rigor icon_razz.gif

    I feel sorry for Mil8 given that you've compared his reasoning with yours. And um no, while I don't think my background has any relevance - I was born and raised in Canada for the record (was a side of ad hominem attacks part of your esteemed education in logic and reasoning?). Just had some good sense to think independently and think critically. If you had something reasonable to argue, I'd be more willing to frame a counterargument. So far all I've said on the matter is that while I am not comfortable with Stephen Harper, so far it looks like the odds are very much for his party winning the most seats as per intrade and the strong favorable polls for the Conservatives over the other parties. What you have at best is wishful thinking.


    dude - wait until finish editing before you jump all over it.

    I type with one hand and I'm partly blind so it takes tIme to finda nd fix errors.

    I dare say you could do it no faster or better than I can under the same limitations. ( I haveto post read, edit, repost,read, re-edit - because I do not see this font well in edit mode. unnerstan?


    So again - now -

    1. What the fuck does Trudeau have to do with the government falling?

    2. What schools did you go to?


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    Mar 25, 2011 10:31 PM GMT
    Significantly you did not deny being a newcomer, when you could have just settled it by naming your schools (which most of us are proud to do)

    I guess for some reason you feel you feel ashamed (can't imagine why).

    So bacjko the main question:

    How do you think Harper can win this election?

    What significance do ytou think the public will attach to his governent being found in contempt.

    Why?


    Essay answers only.

    And by your rules - no typos, no editing. llowed.

    icon_rolleyes.gif


    5 minutes.

    Go.



    we'll see how you do.




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    Mar 25, 2011 10:35 PM GMT
    Upper_Canadian said
    riddler78 said
    Upper_Canadian said
    riddler78 said
    beneful1 saidQuestion.
    If the liberals had someone other than Ignatieff. Say like Justin Trudeau as party leader... do you think their popularity would increase. I do solely by gathering the support of the non-informed and younger set who would vote for him based on his looks etc.


    Understanding your hoping for another wave of Trudeaumania, that era has sailed. Especially given what's happening in the US, I think Canadians are even more cautious about spending. Further, for all that the Conservatives have been branded as scary,etc, they really haven't come across that way in governance (and especially considering the Liberals were considering allying themselves with the BQ it's quite an ironic charge to make). I'm sure the betting markets will be more alive by tomorrow as to whether or not we'll see a majority government - but at least so far, the odds are quite clearly favoring the Conservatives as having the most seats.


    backward thinking again, riddler. Trudeau was decades ago.

    Try looking ahead. Trudeau has been dead for a long time and his son is too young yet to run for the leadership. We tend not to go for dynastic politics the way the Americans do . Why would you think anyone now would want a politician from the 60s? Do you really live so much in the past?

    That truly is typical of the right wing mind.

    Still obsessed with Trudeau??

    Fuck man we are in a new millenium! Join us!
    icon_rolleyes.gif

    From here we can see it wasn't so great in the sepia toned 20th century that the boomers want to think they lived in.


    Are you that unhinged? Can't take a little criticism or questioning? icon_rolleyes.gif - you obviously haven't kept pace with the press on this side of the country - many reporters who fawn over Justin Trudeau precisely because he's a Trudeau. Further, I wasn't the one who raised the possibility - unless you're saying beneful1, to whom I was responding on the Justin Trudeau possibility, is from HK/China? I mean by your logic it fits? What I think is particularly funny is how you hold yourself and your long, rambling, and largely unreadable post as an example of intellectual rigor icon_razz.gif

    I feel sorry for Mil8 given that you've compared his reasoning with yours. And um no, while I don't think my background has any relevance - I was born and raised in Canada for the record (was a side of ad hominem attacks part of your esteemed education in logic and reasoning?). Just had some good sense to think independently and think critically. If you had something reasonable to argue, I'd be more willing to frame a counterargument. So far all I've said on the matter is that while I am not comfortable with Stephen Harper, so far it looks like the odds are very much for his party winning the most seats as per intrade and the strong favorable polls for the Conservatives over the other parties. What you have at best is wishful thinking.


    dude - wait until finish editing before you jump all over it.

    I type with one hand and I'm partly blind so it takes tIme to finda nd fix errors.

    I dare say you could do it no faster or better than I can under the same limitations. ( I haveto post read, edit, repost,read, re-edit - because I do not see this font well in edit mode. unnerstan?


    So again - now -

    1. What the fuck does Trudeau have to do with the government falling?

    2. What schools did you go to?


    For someone who claims such limitations and are so quick to hide behind them, you seem to have no problems attacking others for who they are or who you think they are. You might take your own unsolicited advice.

    1. Read my response and what I responded to slowly. I was responding to beneful1 who brought up the "what if Justin Trudeau were leader".
    2. No comment, not relevant but they were in Canada, specifically Ontario through to university.

    PS with respect to your subsequent question on Harper - I don't need to define how I think he'll "win" the election. I've simply said that as the betting shows, the probability is currently 75% that the Conservatives will win the most seats.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 25, 2011 10:53 PM GMT
    So far all I've said on the matter is that while I am not comfortable with Stephen Harper, so far it looks like the odds are very much for his party winning the most seats as per intrade and the strong favorable polls for the Conservatives over the other parties. What you have at best is wishful thinking.

    Oh no you didn;t! icon_biggrin.gif
    1. You said: the Betting Odds were how you based your predictions (which I called typical lack of thinking exemplary of the right wing mind as you failed to offer ANY supporting reasoning).
    2. I asked for your reasoning and you spluttered sometghing about Trudeau (icon_question.gif)

    I called out thew total absence of reasoning and since no teacher here would ever pass a kid could not answer the most basic essay question you are either playing dumb on purpose, or you are not just not from here. And ther is nothing wrong with that.

    Your whining though that I've gone ad homimen (when I clearly explained the context of the question is just more typical lame right-winger behaviour: When unable to defend an argument intelligently, complain people are trying to insult you so you can sulk and not answer.

    If you do not wish to discuss politics intelligently, and dazzle us with convincing reasoning, why are you in here at all making a fool of yourself?








  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 25, 2011 11:08 PM GMT
    " I don't need to define how I think he'll "win" the election. I've simply said that as the betting shows, the probability is currently 75% that the Conservatives will win the most seats."

    If So you are conceding right wingers just go on gut instinct.

    the probable odds calculated moments after it happened was enough for you.

    Oh well, no need for a campaign then. Let's go vote - you've already decided but us left wingers and middle of the roaders would like to hear what choices we are going to be offered other than the Contemptuous Harper.

    yes indeed, with every post, riddler, you just impress more and more with the calibre of your reasoning, and your ntellectual integrity.

    I am so proud to call you a countryman.

    We need people like you to occupy the lower end of the intelligence scale.