optimism....it also has it's place

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 29, 2011 2:21 PM GMT
    nevermind.....
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 30, 2011 3:46 PM GMT
    URIAH saidnevermind.....


    No nevermind!

    Optimism is defined as hopefulness and confidence about the future or successful outcome of something; a tendency to take a favourable or hopeful view.

    It's harder than hell to be optimistic at times, but it does your mind and body a whole world of good.
  • Chackers

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    Mar 30, 2011 4:10 PM GMT
    People should use this thread to post their hopefulness and cofidence about the future to balance out the other threads icon_biggrin.gif
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    Mar 30, 2011 4:28 PM GMT
    I'm not pessimistic, I'm realistic.
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    Mar 30, 2011 4:36 PM GMT
    I'm so optimistic that I carry toilet paper around just in case shit happens, and there is none.
  • Chackers

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    Mar 30, 2011 9:40 PM GMT
    paulflexes saidI'm so optimistic that I carry toilet paper around just in case shit happens, and there is none.


    Did Ghandi say that, or it an ancient buddist lessons? icon_biggrin.gif
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    Mar 30, 2011 9:42 PM GMT
    Chackers said
    paulflexes saidI'm so optimistic that I carry toilet paper around just in case shit happens, and there is none.


    Did Ghandi say that, or it an ancient buddist lessons? icon_biggrin.gif
    I made it up on the spot. icon_wink.gif
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    Mar 30, 2011 10:22 PM GMT
    mixtape saidI'm not pessimistic, I'm realistic.


    Yes. I lived near a site where humanity proved the worst in itself. I see how selfish and shallow people can be in Los Angeles.

    But I have seen people risk their lives for others. I have seen people fight against injustice to free their nation from Communism.

    There is no darkness without light. The two belong to one another.
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    Mar 30, 2011 10:59 PM GMT
    Who cares...whatever.
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    Mar 31, 2011 12:03 AM GMT
    well, i had posted about a recent pleasant experience, but the thread got no views so i just removed it.

    anyway, the pleasant experience was in talking to a friend of mine who has a strong and hopeful personality. since i live in a relatively rural area, even justifiable can be somewhat oppressive.
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    Mar 31, 2011 1:28 AM GMT
    URIAH saidwell, i had posted about a recent pleasant experience, but the thread got no views so i just removed it.

    anyway, the pleasant experience was in talking to a friend of mine who has a strong and hopeful personality. since i live in a relatively rural area, even justifiable can be somewhat oppressive.


    And being optimistic about it is a great thing my good man.
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    Mar 31, 2011 1:32 AM GMT
    FlibbertyGibbet said
    mixtape saidI'm not pessimistic, I'm realistic.


    Yes. I lived near a site where humanity proved the worst in itself. I see how selfish and shallow people can be in Los Angeles.

    But I have seen people risk their lives for others. I have seen people fight against injustice to free their nation from Communism.

    There is no darkness without light. The two belong to one another.


    That's bunch of tomfoolerish malarkey. These kinds of views on the world just make me chuckle. "You must have evil to have good." Silly talk.
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    Mar 31, 2011 1:34 AM GMT
    if you didn't have evil how would you define good.
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    Mar 31, 2011 1:49 AM GMT
    mtl116 saidif you didn't have evil how would you define good.


    Things are defined by what they are, not by what they are not. Put a circle on a blank page and you can say "we see the circle because it exists in the positive space in contrast to the negative space". So, we conclude "the existence of the circle depends on the 'not-circle'. BUT, draw a circle amongst a crowded background of other things (not space) and we still have a circle. So, the circle is defined by it's own circle-ness, not by the negative space around it. So, I extend this argument to good: good exists independent of evil. Like the circle among the empty background, evil only makes good easier to see (by contrast), but good's existence does not depend on evil.
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    Mar 31, 2011 1:54 AM GMT
    The circle would exist yes. But it wouldn't necessarily be conceptualized as a circle. "Good" actions would exist independently of evil ones. But they are not labelled good, unless you have a benchmark to compare them to. Actions are actions. Good actions are subjective and rely on context.
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    Mar 31, 2011 1:56 AM GMT
    Rockbiter said
    FlibbertyGibbet said
    mixtape saidI'm not pessimistic, I'm realistic.


    Yes. I lived near a site where humanity proved the worst in itself. I see how selfish and shallow people can be in Los Angeles.

    But I have seen people risk their lives for others. I have seen people fight against injustice to free their nation from Communism.

    There is no darkness without light. The two belong to one another.


    That's bunch of tomfoolerish malarkey. These kinds of views on the world just make me chuckle. "You must have evil to have good." Silly talk.


    I could care less about your self important loquacity. I have seen it and lived it. Get out of your head. The real world is much different than the pop psychology books you read.
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    Mar 31, 2011 2:05 AM GMT
    On optimism, I think the best thing that we can do in life is to think deeply about what we believe is real/true and what we value. Then, learn how to move toward that in our thoughts and action. As we experience different situations, our own understanding of what is real/true and what we value will change. That change is better if it is moving toward a higher or better understanding of real/true and helps our actions become more in line with what we value.

    Optimism, I think, is when you persist in your belief that this is the goal and that any situation can be used to help you achieve that goal. Even when you experience terrible pain or suffering, it can be used to increase your understanding. That is optimism at its best.
  • Chackers

    Posts: 149

    Mar 31, 2011 9:59 AM GMT
    jprichva said
    Chackers saidPeople should use this thread to post their hopefulness and cofidence about the future to balance out the other threads icon_biggrin.gif

    Oh, get off my lawn.


    Nyahahaa icon_razz.gif I think Rockbiter makes alot of sense. If we were living in the first human civilization then this "you need bad to see good" argument would make sense.
    It's 2011, we know good. We know bad. We dont need bad to see good (anymore).
  • TheAlchemixt

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    Mar 31, 2011 10:17 AM GMT
    Candide! The true optimist!!! I love his way of thinking!
  • Twenty_Someth...

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    Mar 31, 2011 10:42 AM GMT
    I'd rather be pragmatic than optimistic.
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    Mar 31, 2011 10:53 AM GMT
    Rockbiter said
    mtl116 saidif you didn't have evil how would you define good.


    Things are defined by what they are, not by what they are not. Put a circle on a blank page and you can say "we see the circle because it exists in the positive space in contrast to the negative space". So, we conclude "the existence of the circle depends on the 'not-circle'. BUT, draw a circle amongst a crowded background of other things (not space) and we still have a circle. So, the circle is defined by it's own circle-ness, not by the negative space around it. So, I extend this argument to good: good exists independent of evil. Like the circle among the empty background, evil only makes good easier to see (by contrast), but good's existence does not depend on evil.


    Things are not defined by what they are or by what they are not. I think to assume either would be like saying 'things' are static and unmoving which they are not. These are the confines of our language, which is there to help us describe moments and but will always fail in describing the fluidity of existence.

    What do you feel the difference is, in terms of given contrast, between a circle surrounded by void and a circe surrounded by other things? Without either there is no circle is there? Where does the circle begin and where does it end without either the void or the 'things'?

    To the OP, I don't think optimism really has a place, but rather openness to see things in a different light. For example, you might be optimistic that you will get some present later from a friend. Thinking this way in itself creates expectations of what might be and can close off other very valuable opportunities.

    Here is a Taoist parable that I <3 on dualism (dualistic good/bad thinking) and why it should be transcended.

    There is a Taoist story of an old farmer who had worked his crops for many years. One day his horse ran away. Upon hearing the news, his neighbors came to visit. "Such bad luck," they said sympathetically. "May be," the farmer replied. The next morning the horse returned, bringing with it three other wild horses. "How wonderful," the neighbors exclaimed. "May be," replied the old man. The following day, his son tried to ride one of the untamed horses, was thrown, and broke his leg. The neighbors again came to offer their sympathy on his misfortune. "May be," answered the farmer. The day after, military officials came to the village to draft young men into the army. Seeing that the son's leg was broken, they passed him by. The neighbors congratulated the farmer on how well things had turned out. "May be," said the farmer.

    Just my two cents*
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    Mar 31, 2011 6:09 PM GMT
    there are so many reasons to be cynical

    to be sarcastic

    to be snarky

    and it can be fun

    but we diminish ourselves as resources to each other when we do not show that we also have hope and kindness within ourselves. to hide it, just reinforces the view that slipknot is right and people=shit.

    i used to sound more cynical, and then a straight married friend of mine pointed out that my snarkiness would scare him off if he were in my market. and i was just using it as humor.

    in some areas, gay men are really very oppressed, so it's a defense against that. but we have to be careful not to turn on each other.

    ....

  • Timbales

    Posts: 13993

    Mar 31, 2011 6:22 PM GMT
    optimism is what eye glass doctors go to school for, right?