Being GAY is a CHOICE ....!!!!!

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    Mar 31, 2011 9:26 PM GMT
    So... I really have to say I think being GAY is a choice.

    30 years ago when homosexual people were fighting to shock the world into recognizing that gays had rights and deserved equality, this was definitely necessary and I am thankful that we live in a world today that has accepted to a certain extent that being homosexual is neither evil not wrong.

    In todays society, being "gay" carries a whole lot more qualifications I am beginning to see... If I am a dude who likes other dudes today, I am told that I must also like Lady Gaga, Madonna, Celebrity Gossip, Brittany Spears, Drag Queens, rainbow flags, tabloids, Martini Bars, speedos, glitter, open relationships, circuit parties, fashion design, and the list goes on... I must also take on feminine characteristics, be great at interior decorating and call all my male friends "girl" or "bitch."

    So what if these things don't appeal to me? What if I don't identify with any of that or naturally have these characteristics...??

    Here's what happens...
    Gay people say that I am "self-hating" or "trying to be straight".
    Straight people are confused when I "come out" because I don't embody the stereotypical gay characteristics.

    Am I supposed to manufacture these characteristics just to fit in? I hope not. I would prefer to be myself.

    I think you don't have a choice whether you are heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, or something else. I get that. But you do have a choice whether you want to be "gay" and take on that identity... And since our world is all about labels and it's the only way anyone can seem to function... I think we need a new label for a homosexual man who is masculine and doesn't subscribe to the gay culture. Because I see a fire war start when anyone throws out the word "straight-acting" or "masculine" so there needs to be something else. Some alternate way of being than being "gay" because no matter how homosexual I am, I simply cannot consider myself "gay"

    There are over 276,000 members on here. At least half must be in a similar category that I am describing. I'd say alone that's enough to create a new classification.

    Any suggestions....??
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    Mar 31, 2011 9:37 PM GMT
    I believe the label you are looking for is "g0y". Here's their link to a refuge for hypermasculinity:
    http://g0ys.org/initialize.htm

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    Mar 31, 2011 9:39 PM GMT
    wildtype87 saidI believe the label you are looking for is "g0y". Here's their link to a refuge for hypermasculinity:
    http://g0ys.org/initialize.htm

    I super-strongly disagree. That label is one of the worst things a person can be. They're more homophobic than the WBC.
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    Mar 31, 2011 9:46 PM GMT
    shredcutback saidThere are over 276,000 members on here. At least half must be in a similar category that I am describing. I'd say alone that's enough to create a new classification.

    Any suggestions....??
    Yeah...continue identifying as gay.
    As more and more guys become comfortable with their identity, the stereotype of feminine will no longer be pinned to gay, because the majority will not fit the previous stereotype. Then gay will be thought of as nothing more than a dude who likes dudes...kinda like it already is in most of the hetero world.

    PS. The only place I see fem-hate is in the gay community. Among straights, I never see this type of nonsense...they accept fems better than our own people.
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    Mar 31, 2011 9:51 PM GMT
    You don't have to like all those things to be gay. Yeah, there are a few guys that think you SHOULD like these things, but most of the sane, decent gays don't feel that way. I mean I am gay and I can't stand Lady Gaga, will never wear little gay boy swim shorts, hate martinis, will never been in an open relationship, won't ever dress in drag, etc. Those are all stereotypical gay things, and are definitely not true of all gay men.

    And as for the "straight-acting" thing... I don't really care when people say it, but the same people who don't like when people say "straight-acting" will say they don't like when people say "gay-acting". Its the same as saying "black acting". Its the stereotype that people don't like..at least I think so.

    If you talk to a lot of guys on here, you will realize that it is not necessary to be "gay" as you described above. You can be gay and like whatever you want. It called individuality. So now worries buddy. Just be gay and be yourself!
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    Mar 31, 2011 9:55 PM GMT
    paulflexes said
    shredcutback saidThere are over 276,000 members on here. At least half must be in a similar category that I am describing. I'd say alone that's enough to create a new classification.

    Any suggestions....??
    Yeah...continue identifying as gay.
    As more and more guys become comfortable with their identity, the stereotype of feminine will no longer be pinned to gay, because the majority will not fit the previous stereotype. Then gay will be thought of as nothing more than a dude who likes dudes...kinda like it already is in most of the hetero world.

    PS. The only place I see fem-hate is in the gay community. Among straights, I never see this type of nonsense...they accept fems better than our own people.


    I get what you're saying and it makes sense in a perfect world. I wish that would be so! But I also think you're way off base saying most of the hetero world thinks of "gay" only as a dude who likes dudes! Try going up to any random straight dude that you don't know and ask what do they think of when you say the word "gay." I would bet more often than not, they will give you a few more adjectives than simply "a man who likes men".

    And let me make clear that by saying I don't possess the more feminine gay characteristics, I am by no means saying I have anything against people that are feminine. (you said "fem-hate") Never said that at all, please don't read that into this at all. I have friends who are extremely feminine and have no argument with it. They are happy and so am I if they are being themselves. So please don't let this thread turn into me being labeled as prejudiced against feminine gay guys! Because I'm not.
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    Mar 31, 2011 9:56 PM GMT
    You just need to meet guys with which you have things in common. They do exist, unfortunately they don't stand out in a crowd for the exact same reason.

    Chin up little one. Keep trying to meet people.
  • roadbikeRob

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    Mar 31, 2011 9:58 PM GMT
    Being gay is definitely not a choice.
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    Mar 31, 2011 10:00 PM GMT
    I think you should be who you are, who knows yourself better than yourself?
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    Mar 31, 2011 10:05 PM GMT
    shredcutback saidI get what you're saying and it makes sense in a perfect world. I wish that would be so! But I also think you're way off base saying most of the hetero world thinks of "gay" only as a dude who likes dudes! Try going up to any random straight dude that you don't know and ask what do they think of when you say the word "gay." I would bet more often than not, they will give you a few more adjectives than simply "a man who likes men".
    That's where it's our responsibility to show them that they are wrong in their assumptions. Removing the gay label is not the way to do that...it only shows (in their mind) that you are not happy with your sexuality.

    shredcutback saidAnd let me make clear that by saying I don't possess the more feminine gay characteristics, I am by no means saying I have anything against people that are feminine. (you said "fem-hate") Never said that at all, please don't read that into this at all. I have friends who are extremely feminine and have no argument with it. They are happy and so am I if they are being themselves. So please don't let this thread turn into me being labeled as prejudiced against feminine gay guys! Because I'm not.
    I know you didn't say it, but it does come across that way since you said you don't want to carry the gay label due to the feminine characteristics that are associated with it in the stereotype.

    PS. Come to South Beach and you'll see there are more straight guys wearing Speedos and having open relationships than gays. I have no idea how those things ever got associated with being gay. icon_wink.gif
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    Mar 31, 2011 10:06 PM GMT
    I wasn't being completely serious with that link. It was more of a general annoyed response to a thread topic that is brought up all too frequently around RJ...even more frequently than Lady GaGa topics. Sometimes, I think RJ needs a separate forum called "I am masculine...hear me ROAR!".

    I don't like the g0y movement at all, but they share the same premise of the OP: there's a population of homosexual guys out there that doesn't identify with what the mainstream deems "gay culture". The "g0ys" are, so far, the only ones who have put a label on that kind of group. Their approach just happens to be a bit twisted and internally homophobic.

    But I agree with paulflexes. Identify yourself as "gay". Just like the flaming gays and drag queens were the visible ones who fought for gay rights, be the visible guy that fights the "feminine" stereotype of gay men.
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    Mar 31, 2011 10:31 PM GMT
    Lesbians have "lipstick lesbian" and most lesbians love that term and use it.

    Is it a threat to the gay male ego to think there might be some other category outside of their way of being?
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    Mar 31, 2011 10:43 PM GMT
    shredcutback saidIs it a threat to the gay male ego to think there might be some other category outside of their way of being?
    Almost every time I walk into a new bar as "fresh meat" I get confronted by someone who thinks I'm straight and just there to start shit, so yes. Just like a couple night ago when I walked into a bar that I haven't been to in a few years...all new people there so none knew me. Within 20 minutes I was confronted twice by people asking if I'm straight, because I wasn't flirting with anyone or "acting gay." I was like "sorry, I'm not gonna change the way I naturally behave just to fit an idealistic stereotype." Made a new friend that night. icon_biggrin.gif
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    Mar 31, 2011 10:47 PM GMT
    7265541008.jpg

    Now this is a choice. Mmmmmm, ice cream sammich!
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    Mar 31, 2011 11:04 PM GMT
    I chose to be gay when my mind and body chose to like men.......on their own.

    But yes, it's time to get rid of labels.
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    Mar 31, 2011 11:17 PM GMT
    shredcutback saidLesbians have "lipstick lesbian" and most lesbians love that term and use it.

    Is it a threat to the gay male ego to think there might be some other category outside of their way of being?


    I gotta ask what part of California are you in?

    In San Francisco, while the stereotype exists, I find that more and more men are breaking out of that stereotype, simply because being gay isnt enough of a differentiator in the damn city.

    Also, I find that all gay men (and men in general) subscribe to some sort of gay stereotype, whether that be a love of shoes, musicals, fashion, etc.

    I have met the manliest of men (total player, totally straight) who was fucking obsessed with his closet of shoes. Like literally.

    I have met manly of men who were gay, and had a whole fucking room dedicated to his damn shoes.

    So yea, it happens.
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    Mar 31, 2011 11:52 PM GMT
    I knew an Asian chick once who flat out refused to label herself Asian. If you asked her what ethnicity she was, she'd say British. She just didn't feel like she fit the Asian stereotype and therefore wasn't. She obsessed over what associations people would make about her personality based on this one label, to the point that she even changed her last name. It was ridiculous and sad at the same time.

    People are smart enough to realize when you don't fit a stereotype. Just be yourself. Stop worrying about the labels..
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    Apr 01, 2011 12:15 AM GMT
    shredcutback saidSo... I really have to say I think being GAY is a choice.


    In todays society, being "gay" carries a whole lot more qualifications I am beginning to see... If I am a dude who likes other dudes today, I am told that I must also like Lady Gaga, Madonna, Celebrity Gossip, Brittany Spears, Drag Queens, rainbow flags, tabloids, Martini Bars, speedos, glitter, open relationships, circuit parties, fashion design, and the list goes on... I must also take on feminine characteristics, be great at interior decorating and call all my male friends "girl" or "bitch."

    So what if these things don't appeal to me? What if I don't identify with any of that or naturally have these characteristics...??

    Here's what happens...
    Gay people say that I am "self-hating" or "trying to be straight".
    Straight people are confused when I "come out" because I don't embody the stereotypical gay characteristics.

    Am I supposed to manufacture these characteristics just to fit in? I hope not. I would prefer to be myself.



    Dude, I feel exactly the same way. I'm not out yet, and I think part of the reason is because there is a stereotypical "gay" identity that people automatically use to define you, and I think that's scary. I think it's important to focus your attention on people with similar interests and views about this--that's what I'm doing and it seems to be helping so far. It is not self-hating and not trying to be straight. Being homosexual doesn't define anything about you or how you live your life, even though people wrongly assume it does
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    Apr 01, 2011 12:21 AM GMT
    bronzechew saidI knew an Asian chick once who flat out refused to label herself Asian. If you asked her what ethnicity she was, she'd say British. She just didn't feel like she fit the Asian stereotype and therefore wasn't. She obsessed over what associations people would make about her personality based on this one label, to the point that she even changed her last name. It was ridiculous and sad at the same time.

    People are smart enough to realize when you don't fit a stereotype. Just be yourself. Stop worrying about the labels..


    It's not an exact comparison. Ethnicity is different. You can look at someone and tell their ethnic background. That's why you think your friend was ridiculous. You can't look at someone and tell they are attracted to men. And in the straight world, if you're a masculine guy, you are assumed straight so you are in a constant state of "coming out" with every new person you meet because it isn't plainly obvious your preferences.

    "...Whoa, dude, I never would have guessed... wow... so you don't seem like the gays I see on TV... you don't...check me out when we change into our wetsuits, do you?.... etc..."

    GRR. Annoying.
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    Apr 01, 2011 12:26 AM GMT
    nkjbl292 saidDude, I feel exactly the same way. I'm not out yet, and I think part of the reason is because there is a stereotypical "gay" identity that people automatically use to define you, and I think that's scary. I think it's important to focus your attention on people with similar interests and views about this--that's what I'm doing and it seems to be helping so far. It is not self-hating and not trying to be straight. Being homosexual doesn't define anything about you or how you live your life, even though people wrongly assume it does

    Wow. well said. It is the hardest thing in my life right now... "coming out" to straight friends who's only experience with gay people is remembering Jack from Will and Grace. And constantly having to explain that I'm not immediately going to start acting like that! Seriously this is what people think!
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    Apr 01, 2011 12:46 AM GMT
    You sure love to start controversial threads, don't you? lol
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    Apr 01, 2011 12:54 AM GMT
    I'm good friends with a lesbian who is the definition of lip-stick lesbian. She's very feminine and "girly" and doesn't seem to be described by any of the lesbian stereotypes. Naturally, most guys that she meets hit on her, but anyway...

    She's only into other girly-girl lesbians, which from her perspective are hard to come by, just like you and your search for a manly-man. Her way around it though is that she's incredibly friendly and outgoing, so she meets a lot of people. Playing this game of numbers means she tends to sniff out the other lesbians by just being super cool and I suppose slightly flirtatious.

    What I'm saying is that maybe you should be like her. Instead of waiting for the rare desirable person to come to you, you should go up to the guys you fancy and chat them up. Be awesome and fun. They will probably be straight, but you'll eventually find a gay one through all the friend-connections.


    On an unrelated note: are all your surfer friends & acquaintances like the stereotypical surfers, aka all relaxed and friendly on the surface but flaky, and detached?
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    Apr 01, 2011 1:00 AM GMT
    way better choice than being some breeder piece of shit!
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    Apr 01, 2011 1:03 AM GMT
    shredcutback saidSo... I really have to say I think being GAY is a choice.

    30 years ago when homosexual people were fighting to shock the world into recognizing that gays had rights and deserved equality, this was definitely necessary and I am thankful that we live in a world today that has accepted to a certain extent that being homosexual is neither evil not wrong.

    In todays society, being "gay" carries a whole lot more qualifications I am beginning to see... If I am a dude who likes other dudes today, I am told that I must also like Lady Gaga, Madonna, Celebrity Gossip, Brittany Spears, Drag Queens, rainbow flags, tabloids, Martini Bars, speedos, glitter, open relationships, circuit parties, fashion design, and the list goes on... I must also take on feminine characteristics, be great at interior decorating and call all my male friends "girl" or "bitch."

    So what if these things don't appeal to me? What if I don't identify with any of that or naturally have these characteristics...??

    Here's what happens...
    Gay people say that I am "self-hating" or "trying to be straight".
    Straight people are confused when I "come out" because I don't embody the stereotypical gay characteristics.

    Am I supposed to manufacture these characteristics just to fit in? I hope not. I would prefer to be myself.

    I think you don't have a choice whether you are heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, or something else. I get that. But you do have a choice whether you want to be "gay" and take on that identity... And since our world is all about labels and it's the only way anyone can seem to function... I think we need a new label for a homosexual man who is masculine and doesn't subscribe to the gay culture. Because I see a fire war start when anyone throws out the word "straight-acting" or "masculine" so there needs to be something else. Some alternate way of being than being "gay" because no matter how homosexual I am, I simply cannot consider myself "gay"

    There are over 276,000 members on here. At least half must be in a similar category that I am describing. I'd say alone that's enough to create a new classification.

    Any suggestions....??


    I haven't really joined in the gay culture either because I don't like it. I don't really care to get sexually intimate with men whom I have no relationship with.
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    Apr 01, 2011 1:05 AM GMT
    why do you need a label? I hate spears, gaga etc. but i don't label myself either. what i like, i like and that doesn't make me anything but me. One of the big problems, imho, with the gay world is a need to classify and sub classify everybody and everything.

    Yes we needed our predecessors to scream bloody murder for some of the equality we now enjoy and I am indebted to them, but if I don't feel comfortable with or doing something, then I don't.

    Yes, I believe that the gay world is stereotyped into a certain character and I would love to see just the average joe be more evident to the straight world to break that stereotype, but that is dependent of more average joes coming out.

    I guess what I am trying to say is fuck the labels, be who you are, like what you like, listen to what you like, hang with who you like. The sooner we are seen as just a normal group of people, the sooner the labels will fall away. When I came out a lot of people said "holy shit, how can you be gay? i never would have guessed it"....so what is that saying about their perceptions? THAT....is what we need to change....................Keithicon_wink.gif