Prisoners and Puppies

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    Apr 01, 2011 4:38 AM GMT
    It melts my heart to see those programs where guys in prison get the responsibility of taking care of a pet. Tells you why people go to prison, from lack of love and desperation causing them to do violent things and stuff.

    But seeing them with the unconditional love for a puppy or kitty. Amazing.

    PrisonPuppyProgram005.jpg
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    Apr 01, 2011 4:51 AM GMT
    puppies.jpg
  • sea_buddy

    Posts: 143

    Apr 01, 2011 6:13 AM GMT
    I'm a fan. icon_smile.gif I wish we'd spend less money on keeping them in and more on helping them get out and stay out.
  • swimmer8671

    Posts: 429

    Apr 01, 2011 6:24 AM GMT
    What if they end up hurting their pet??? Maybe we should only provide these pets to the criminals who are there for tax fraud haha. Not the criminally insane, or murderers.
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    Apr 01, 2011 6:31 AM GMT
    swimmer8671 saidWhat if they end up hurting their pet??? Maybe we should only provide these pets to the criminals who are there for tax fraud haha. Not the criminally insane, or murderers.


    Geez. I was waiting for a debbie downer response. I hate to tell you this, but the ones in prison for fraud probably have less of a heart.
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    Apr 01, 2011 6:33 AM GMT
    sea_buddy saidI'm a fan. icon_smile.gif I wish we'd spend less money on keeping them in and more on helping them get out and stay out.


    Depends on what kind of prisoners.

    If someone murdered another human being (a murderer) on purpose and is holding a puppy smiling, that is not an incentive to let him back out.

    How do you know that after he is let out he won't go kill someone again?

  • swimmer8671

    Posts: 429

    Apr 01, 2011 6:37 AM GMT
    wrestlervic said
    swimmer8671 saidWhat if they end up hurting their pet??? Maybe we should only provide these pets to the criminals who are there for tax fraud haha. Not the criminally insane, or murderers.


    Geez. I was waiting for a debbie downer response. I hate to tell you this, but the ones in prison for fraud probably have less of a heart.


    Haha i'm not being a downer sorry i am just worried about a cute puppy and i think about how prisons are normally a hostile environment and people who commit serious crimes don't really deserve a reward such as a companion.
  • sea_buddy

    Posts: 143

    Apr 01, 2011 6:38 AM GMT
    _Mohammed_ said
    sea_buddy saidI'm a fan. icon_smile.gif I wish we'd spend less money on keeping them in and more on helping them get out and stay out.


    Depends on what kind of prisoners.

    If someone murdered another human being (a murderer) on purpose and is holding a puppy smiling, that is not an incentive to let him back out.

    How do you know that after he is let out he won't go kill someone again?



    O.M.G. Do you ever stop trying to create drama? It was about as agreeable of a statement as anything could be on this site...and you just turned it into something else. Obviously, murderers shouldn't be running around with puppies by their side.

    And, no, I'm not going to carry on a ten page thread with you arguing about pointless crap because nobody else wants to see it.


    Edit: Sorry, was tired. Long night. The kid still frustrates me, though.
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    Apr 01, 2011 6:43 AM GMT
    If you watched these segments on 20/20, many of them were murders. Many murders are not premeditated, unlike fraud. The people snapped. The fact is, this program, where prisoners train dogs for use at hospitals and as seeing-eye dogs, has been very successful. It gives them purpose.
  • sea_buddy

    Posts: 143

    Apr 01, 2011 6:49 AM GMT
    http://blog.seattlepi.com/angelanimals/2008/03/26/training-dogs-gives-purpose-to-prison-inmates/

    Here's a nice article on that topic, kinda. 3 year old article, but describes better conditions for inmates and staff, reduced return rates, saving dogs from being euthanized.
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    Apr 01, 2011 6:52 AM GMT
    sea_buddy said
    _Mohammed_ said
    sea_buddy saidI'm a fan. icon_smile.gif I wish we'd spend less money on keeping them in and more on helping them get out and stay out.


    Depends on what kind of prisoners.

    If someone murdered another human being (a murderer) on purpose and is holding a puppy smiling, that is not an incentive to let him back out.

    How do you know that after he is let out he won't go kill someone again?



    O.M.G. Do you ever stop trying to create drama? It was about as agreeable of a statement as anything could be on this site...and you just turned it into something else. Obviously, murderers shouldn't be running around with puppies by their side.

    And, no, I'm not going to carry on a ten page thread with you arguing about pointless crap because nobody else wants to see it.


    Sorry bud, but this is a forum... opinions are going to be expressed whether or not you like them.

    deal with it.
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    Apr 01, 2011 7:14 AM GMT
    sea_buddy said
    _Mohammed_ said
    sea_buddy saidI'm a fan. icon_smile.gif I wish we'd spend less money on keeping them in and more on helping them get out and stay out.


    Depends on what kind of prisoners.

    If someone murdered another human being (a murderer) on purpose and is holding a puppy smiling, that is not an incentive to let him back out.

    How do you know that after he is let out he won't go kill someone again?



    O.M.G. Do you ever stop trying to create drama? It was about as agreeable of a statement as anything could be on this site...and you just turned it into something else. Obviously, murderers shouldn't be running around with puppies by their side.

    And, no, I'm not going to carry on a ten page thread with you arguing about pointless crap because nobody else wants to see it.




    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA you guys re gonna get married one day.
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    Apr 01, 2011 7:17 AM GMT
    swimmer8671 saidWhat if they end up hurting their pet??? Maybe we should only provide these pets to the criminals who are there for tax fraud haha. Not the criminally insane, or murderers.



    They're not pets to the prisoners, it's a rescue and rehabilitation program The prisoners have to apply, be selected, and be trained to work with the animals. If all goes well, they're then allowed to start working with the dogs one on one. Because they work closely with the general public, I doubt dangerous offenders would even be considered.

    The way it works is that the dogs (who typically have behavioral problems or issues) are selected by the organizations, brought to the prisons, and are assigned to their own inmate who cares for them, teaches them obedience, and gets them socialized with the goal of the dog graduating and going to their new home. When the dogs "graduate" from the program, new ones are rescued, and brought in and so the story goes.

    I personally think it's an awesome idea. It gives prisoners a chance to develop some self worth while giving them a marketable skill. It gives dogs that might've been deemed as unadoptable a chance at a new life, and it gives a family a well trained, rehabilitated, & socialized pet. It saves lives.
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    Apr 01, 2011 7:18 AM GMT
    Runninchlt said
    swimmer8671 saidWhat if they end up hurting their pet??? Maybe we should only provide these pets to the criminals who are there for tax fraud haha. Not the criminally insane, or murderers.



    They're not pets to the prisoners, it's a rescue and rehabilitation program The prisoners have to apply, be selected, and be trained to work with the animals. If all goes well, they're then allowed to start working with the dogs one on one.

    The way it works is that the dogs (who typically have behavioral problems or issues) are selected by the organizations, brought to the prisons, and are assigned to their own inmate who cares for them, teaches them obedience, and gets them socialized with the goal of the dog graduating and going to their new home. When the dogs "graduate" from the program, new ones are rescued, and brought in and so the story goes.

    I personally think it's an awesome idea. It gives prisoners a chance to develop some self worth while giving them a marketable skill. It gives dogs that might've been deemed as unadoptable a chance at a new life, and it gives a family a well trained, rehabilitated, & socialized pet. It saves lives.


    awesome clarification post! icon_smile.gif
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    Apr 01, 2011 7:59 AM GMT
    Whoever thought this up and made it happen, I applaud them!!
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    Apr 01, 2011 11:09 AM GMT
    I was a prosecutor and criminal defense attorney for 20 years. The huge majority of my clients/defendants were not bad people, but people who for various reasons did something incredibly stupid or tragic on an impulse.

    I would say that less than 10% of the criminals were truly dangerous people without a conscience. A could see how this program would help them develop coping skills, emotional maturity and a sense of self worth that equip them to help themselves when they are paroled.
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    Apr 01, 2011 12:14 PM GMT
    I thought it was an aprils fool... icon_lol.gif
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    Apr 01, 2011 12:35 PM GMT
    swimmer8671 said
    wrestlervic said
    swimmer8671 saidWhat if they end up hurting their pet??? Maybe we should only provide these pets to the criminals who are there for tax fraud haha. Not the criminally insane, or murderers.


    Geez. I was waiting for a debbie downer response. I hate to tell you this, but the ones in prison for fraud probably have less of a heart.


    Haha i'm not being a downer sorry i am just worried about a cute puppy and i think about how prisons are normally a hostile environment and people who commit serious crimes don't really deserve a reward such as a companion.


    ok so violent prisoners should have a less cute animals because we care about less cute things less. maybe we can give them pet cows. or pet fat kids.
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    Apr 01, 2011 12:38 PM GMT
    There are alot of these types of programs around the country. A prison here in Kansas is part of a program where wild horse are brought in and tamed down and trained and then put up for adoption. All the prisoners are screened for the program. Any hint of mistreatment of the animals by the prisoners is not tolerated.
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    Apr 01, 2011 2:35 PM GMT
    I'm sorta surprised you people needed a detailed clarification on this. If you watched decent programs instead of the garbage you like and listen to, you would have known the details of this. Like, it's been talked about on the news and other places tons of times. icon_wink.gif

    Oh and thanks for the agreement Alpha muscle.

    Here's a link for you:

    http://www.puppiesbehindbars.com/about.asp
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    Apr 01, 2011 2:45 PM GMT
    "Dr. Thomas Lane, a veterinarian in Florida, thought that prison inmates would make excellent puppy raisers, and started the first guide-dog/prison program. Not only do inmates have unlimited time to spend with the puppies, but they benefit from the responsibility of being puppy raisers in ways that are especially important to their rehabilitation: they learn patience, what it is like to be completely responsible for a living being, how to give and receive unconditional love, and --since puppy raisers take classes and train the dogs together --how to work as a team."
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    Apr 01, 2011 2:56 PM GMT
    I think this is a great program but the rehabilitative aspect is overrated since dog lovers aren't necessarily nice people. As anyone who has ever been to a dog run knows, sometimes only a dog can stand its master's company.
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    Apr 01, 2011 2:59 PM GMT
    eagermuscle saidI think this is a great program but the rehabilitative aspect is overrated since dog lovers aren't necessarily nice people. As anyone who has ever been to a dog run knows, sometimes only a dog can stand its master's company.


    The good owners don't do dog runs, just as good parents don't put their kids in beauty pagents.
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    Apr 01, 2011 3:19 PM GMT
    eagermuscle saidI think this is a great program but the rehabilitative aspect is overrated since dog lovers aren't necessarily nice people. As anyone who has ever been to a dog run knows, sometimes only a dog can stand its master's company.


    I respectfully disagree. As I stated above, the majority of my clients weren't "bad" people, but rather people who did bad things from poor life skills, underdeveloped self esteem, or just plain impulse control due to not grasping "cause and effect' the way other people do.

    (Impulse ----> cost/benefit analysis ----> act -----> consequences) is the normal thread, but they see things like this:

    (ImpulseAct ---------------------------------------------------------->consequences --> cost/benefit analysis)

    This is learned behavior and I believe can be unlearned. Raising a puppy who gives IMMEDIATE feedback on a constant basis to your behavior really reestablishes in the prisoners brain that "My action could result in (A), but it might result in (B)."

    Just my 0.02$
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    Apr 01, 2011 3:36 PM GMT
    wrestlervic said
    eagermuscle saidI think this is a great program but the rehabilitative aspect is overrated since dog lovers aren't necessarily nice people. As anyone who has ever been to a dog run knows, sometimes only a dog can stand its master's company.

    The good owners don't do dog runs, just as good parents don't put their kids in beauty pagents.

    My sentiment applied to a lot of owners who don't use runs so my statement was too broad and shouldn't have been limited to dog runs, which admittedly spawns a special breed of owner. I stopped going to runs due to the behavior of and denial of accountability by, in large part, "regulars," who I dub "benchwarmers" (and you might call "pageant moms" in that they maintain the public facade that their child can do no wrong) - people who frequent the run to sit on their asses and socialize without engaging their dogs, who run wild. I'm lucky in that I'm able to avoid runs and still exercise my dogs by going to our undeveloped local beaches early when they're empty:

    i78zsz.jpg

    Alpha_Muscle said[T]he majority of my clients weren't "bad" people, but rather people who did bad things from poor life skills, underdeveloped self esteem, or just plain impulse control due to not grasping "cause and effect' the way other people do...

    My point is that there are a lot of dog owners out there roaming both the runs and the streets for whom raising a puppy did little to improve their poor life skills and prepare them for societal interaction. But just as doing so helps rehabilitate to certain degrees "free" folk, I'm sure it's also a win-win for both needy dogs and some prisoners in need of social rehabilitation and marketable skills. But I can't conclude that a habitually violent offender - whose victims may have loved, if not unconditionally loved them - will be rehabilitated because most dog lovers, myself included, tend to treat dogs better than people! But my point is moot if the application, selection and training process screens habitually violent inmates out of the program. The average dog owner should be so well screened.

    Actually, heybreaux said it succinctly and best while proving a picture's worth a thousand words:

    heybreaux saidImage and video hosting by TinyPic