Making Gay Normal

  • Profire

    Posts: 224

    Apr 01, 2011 10:39 AM GMT
    Reading another thread "What's your comfort level with being publicly gay?", found here http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/1333633, got me thinking about making gay normal.

    If we treat being gay as something to hide, disavow, treat it as something to be ashamed of, than we give everybody else the authority to treat it with such disdain as well.

    If being gay isn't wrong than, in my mind, we shouldn't treat it as such.
    If we treat our relationships like hetero-relationships, such as holding hands, kissing your bf goodbuy/hello, opening doors for them, putting your hand on their back, etc, than it becomes part of the normal life and it would become more accepted.

    Most people are afraid or insult what they don't know and what seems, to them, to be abnormal. If it's an every day occurrence and everybody is doing it, than it becomes normal and would get less attention.

    I guess my point is that if we treat it as normal than it is normal and there would be less hatred or fear of it.



    PS - I struggle with this as well and don't walk around holding my bf's hand. However, these are the thoughts that go through my head.
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    Apr 01, 2011 10:45 AM GMT
    in a totally ideal society i would agree wholeheartedly with you....but we have to tell the straight world to come alongside too..................and I dont think they want to......................Keithicon_wink.gif
  • turbid2wenty

    Posts: 74

    Apr 01, 2011 11:28 AM GMT
    I'll be the devil's advocate here -- I'm not sure going through a sequence of actions to mimic what I'll call the 'hetero-normal' PDA is the way to reach equality. The relationship that I have with other dudes is very different (for the most part) than those that I have with the ladies when considering the dynamics in those relationships. In a way, I almost feel as though some of the acts you're describing could ultimately emasculate your partner.

    ...or maybe I'm just the most unromantic person here.
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    Apr 01, 2011 11:41 AM GMT

    Do people not think that we as a group of people do not 'act' equal?

    Examples:

    - Every Gay night has to be laden with sexual innuendo, or have a sex theme
    - Gay Pride - Being proud or being loud?
    - Gay Cruises, Gay Games,
    - Gay apartment complexes, gay villages etc
    - Widespread rejection of monogamy as a "straight ideal"

    I just think the time has come to 'row in' and be part of society, we've achieved the first (very difficult) 75% now lets get the other 25% through co-operation and normalisation.
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    Apr 01, 2011 11:53 AM GMT
    Thisuserexists said
    Do people not think that we as a group of people do not 'act' equal?

    Examples:

    - Every Gay night has to be laden with sexual innuendo, or have a sex theme
    - Gay Pride - Being proud or being loud?
    - Gay Cruises, Gay Games,
    - Gay apartment complexes, gay villages etc
    - Widespread rejection of monogamy as a "straight ideal"

    I just think the time has come to 'row in' and be part of society, we've achieved the first (very difficult) 75% now lets get the other 25% through co-operation and normalisation.


    This is a strawman argument. Most straight night clubs are filled with sexual innuendo or have a sexual theme.

    What's wrong with being proud and loud? Raising the visibility of LGBT people has been key to progress on our rights.

    Lots of minorities have specialized cruises, athletic events, cultural events, etc. Again the visibility of these events have helped us to "normalize" LGBT people in the eyes of the world.

    I don't think there is a "widespread rejection of monogamy", so much so that LGBT people are more honest about desire and sexual politics. That is coupled with a media meme that sensationalize gay sexuality much in the same way it sensationalizes straight sexuality.

    Associated PressInfidelity statistics
    It's tough to get a handle on how many of us are having affairs, given the inherent secrecy.

    22 percent of married men have strayed at least once during their married lives.

    14 percent of married women have had affairs at least once during their married lives.

    Younger people are more likely candidates; in fact, younger women are as likely as younger men to be unfaithful.

    70 percent of married women and 54 percent of married men did not know of their spouses' extramarital activity.

    5 percent of married men and 3 percent of married women reported having sex with someone other than their spouse in the 1997.

    22 percent of men and 14 percent of women admitted to having sexual relations outside their marriage sometime in their past.

    90 percent of Americans believe adultery is morally wrong.

    50 percent of Americans say President Clinton's adultery makes his moral standard "about the same as the average married man,'' according to a Time-CNN poll.

    61 percent of Americans thought adultery should not be a crime in the United states; 35 percent thought it should; 4 percent had no opinion.

    17 percent of divorces in the United States are caused by infidelity.
  • gymlocker

    Posts: 159

    Apr 01, 2011 3:57 PM GMT
    Nice thought. But being gay will never be considered normal.
    The reason is that if we were all gay, or even mostly gay, the human race would eventually become extinct.
    The best we can hope for is to be accepted and tolerated for our differences. Let's work on that.
    What doesn't help is the constant gay focus on sex and being "out there". When we cheapen the idea that love between two same sex people is a possibility by parading half naked or worse on a parade float, or having sex in public places, we turn people off. I've actually had to ask three guys to curb their language while eating out in public because they were talking about anal sex within earshot of a nine year old girl. I won't even relay what I've seen and heard other places.

    I know the tendency of most gay men is to think only of themselves, but think about what kind of impression you're making out there before you ask other people to change their views.
  • Timbales

    Posts: 13993

    Apr 01, 2011 4:01 PM GMT
    There is no normal. People put on a facade, but they are just as un-normal as anyone else.
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    Apr 01, 2011 4:06 PM GMT
    gymlocker saidNice thought. But being gay will never be considered normal.
    The reason is that if we were all gay, or even mostly gay, the human race would eventually become extinct.


    Hmm, for a number of valid reasons it's rather impossible that all could be or most could be gay.

    Just as easily someone might declare, "Deciding not to have kids will never be considered normal because if most or all did this the human race would go extinct."
    Yet it is considered quite normal and no rights have been voted on or removed. icon_wink.gif

    -Doug

  • DrewT

    Posts: 1327

    Apr 01, 2011 4:29 PM GMT
    I went to a book store the other day, and asked if they had a gay and lesbian section. The clerk working there informed me that they would be shelved in the section with the rest of the books. Makes a great statement!
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    Apr 01, 2011 4:40 PM GMT
    In the words of Storm from X-Men 3There's no cure for it because it's not a disease
  • hockeydude12

    Posts: 169

    Apr 01, 2011 4:42 PM GMT
    What is normal? Everyone has a different perception of what normal is.
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    Apr 01, 2011 4:47 PM GMT
    I agree, just like minorities have organizations and things separate, similar with gays.

    Its not that it's separating us, but there needs to be someway to help others who MAY NOT be out, or who aren't out to find us. Not everyone is openly gay and open about their sexuality. There are bi-sexual men who don't wish to be seen with men when there are women present.

    So no, gay will never be normal. And it doesn't need to be
  • tazzari

    Posts: 2929

    Apr 01, 2011 4:51 PM GMT
    QUOTE AUTHOR GOES HERENice thought. But being gay will never be considered normal.


    Who cares what's "normal"?

    Being an Olympic Medalist isn't normal.
    Being a musical genius isn't normal.
    Being a great scientist isn't normal.

    Hell, being truly yourself and as good as you can be at what you do isn't normal.

    Who needs "normal"?
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    Apr 01, 2011 5:16 PM GMT
    tazzari said
    QUOTE AUTHOR GOES HERENice thought. But being gay will never be considered normal.


    Who cares what's "normal"?

    Being an Olympic Medalist isn't normal.
    Being a musical genius isn't normal.
    Being a great scientist isn't normal.

    Hell, being truly yourself and as good as you can be at what you do isn't normal.

    Who needs "normal"?


    I was going to write this. Thanks tazzari!
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    Apr 01, 2011 5:21 PM GMT
    I am new to all this.....that is being in a relationship being open about how I feel and act in public. Yes, it is all an individual thing and we got to act as we feel is right, not to copy others and what THEY think. It is 2011 and the world is a complicated place and I think acceptance and tolerance for ALL is on the way. Baby steps maybe, but some of those steps are by us as we venture through our loives. My partner has been out for years but not big on pda's. I am only out about 1 year, yet alot of battles have been fought so that I can be comfortable and not harrassed and go to a bar and enjoy it without police being outside or coming in and taking names. I live an easier gay life thanks to tthose that preceded me and fought the battle. I enjoy holding his hand and he is getting comfortable with my love in public....the hand holding, the smile the kiss when we choose to.......We are cool about it and try not tomake others uncomfortable, but we are happy and seem to be received very well in our daily tasks........people are basically good and life is good and go out and grab as much or as little as you choose. :-):
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    Apr 01, 2011 6:09 PM GMT
    By definition, being gay is not normal since we are such a small minority of the population. When we hit 51 percent, we will be the norm. .icon_smile.gif
  • mybud

    Posts: 11819

    Apr 01, 2011 7:55 PM GMT
    First...What's normal?...Second...For me if I love ya I'll hold your hand without thinking what others think...Love should be like breathing...it's automatic...When I see a str8 couple all over themselves in public it turns my stomach...I'd feel the same way if a gay couple was doing the same thing...my 2 bits...BUD
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    Apr 01, 2011 8:03 PM GMT
    I think the word "common" or integrated would be better. Common I emphasized loosely as we're actually uncommon as a minority. It's kind of like social acceptance. The more we put ourselves out there and show that hey... we're people too with the same likes, dislikes and habits... it will make us hard to ignore. icon_razz.gif
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    Apr 01, 2011 8:18 PM GMT
    Profire saidReading another thread "What's your comfort level with being publicly gay?", found here http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/1333633, got me thinking about making gay normal.

    If we treat being gay as something to hide, disavow, treat it as something to be ashamed of, than we give everybody else the authority to treat it with such disdain as well.

    If being gay isn't wrong than, in my mind, we shouldn't treat it as such.
    If we treat our relationships like hetero-relationships, such as holding hands, kissing your bf goodbuy/hello, opening doors for them, putting your hand on their back, etc, than it becomes part of the normal life and it would become more accepted.

    Most people are afraid or insult what they don't know and what seems, to them, to be abnormal. If it's an every day occurrence and everybody is doing it, than it becomes normal and would get less attention.

    I guess my point is that if we treat it as normal than it is normal and there would be less hatred or fear of it.

    Yeah, that would be nice....icon_wink.gif




  • tuffguyndc

    Posts: 4437

    Apr 01, 2011 8:43 PM GMT
    buddy, i actually get where you are coming from. normally, i am opossed to gay, lesbians and bi who tell everyone that they are gay. however, you put into context such as holding hands and kissing public it all makes sense to me.
    i still do not believe i should have to go around telling people about my sexuality but that does not mean i can not do the things that you mention. i have never really been a guy who did the public display of affection but i do get where you are coming from
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    Apr 01, 2011 8:56 PM GMT
    After a while, the chasm between gay and straight.....just seems incredibly annoying and unnecessary.....icon_sad.gif
  • andreseward

    Posts: 54

    Apr 01, 2011 9:13 PM GMT
    yeah, or at least the more that other people know how many gay people there really are then they would be less judgemental because they would release that their neighbor,doctor, professor... etc is gay and yeah. People tend to hate things they don't know or understand. Which is why it's important to let people know you are gay. Then they see how you are fucking awesome AND gay.
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    Apr 01, 2011 9:28 PM GMT
    After 20+ years together, the need for overtly displays of affection in public, are long over. Yet not gone in life, I still great mates in public with a shake of the hand and a kiss on maybe each cheek, and a slap on the back, and maybe even a wee hug too. I call my partner by his pet name.

    I have not wasted most of my life living in a closet, hiding the truth promoting there is something wrong with homosexuality, or for others their bisexuality, albeit us homosexuals are diffrent to our half brothers the bisexuals, yet many of their sins fall on our shoulders, because we all get shoved under the one banner of gay, and thats just plan wrong.

    .
    Yes while some people live a lie for whatever reasion, they promote there is indeed something wrong with their sexuality that they hide, instead of just getting out there and living their lives, and getting on with living life.

    Also this bullshit about having to make a big deal about coming out, in stead of just getting on and living your life, mum will soon know when it's common knowledge you have a man or men in your bed.. I can't get my head around why people have to throw a party just because they are a homosexual, or a bisexual now living the homosexual lifestyle?

    Call me a doughnut maker, a poofter, a fudge packer, a tamp liker, it all means the same thing. I am a guy who has always exclusively been into men only. yes I am a fag, a poof. Call me what you like, it want change a thing. I am one of the real gays.
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    Apr 01, 2011 9:32 PM GMT
    TrevorMark saidI think the word "common" or integrated would be better. Common I emphasized loosely as we're actually uncommon as a minority. It's kind of like social acceptance. The more we put ourselves out there and show that hey... we're people too with the same likes, dislikes and habits... it will make us hard to ignore. icon_razz.gif


    Common, would than be a comm er who is a snob, or one without breeding, or one with? Or someone who is just a plan snob, like many who 'work" at royal places?

    We have already become hard to ignore, thats why we now have labels.
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    Apr 01, 2011 9:42 PM GMT
    turbid2wenty saidI'll be the devil's advocate here -- I'm not sure going through a sequence of actions to mimic what I'll call the 'hetero-normal' PDA is the way to reach equality. The relationship that I have with other dudes is very different (for the most part) than those that I have with the ladies when considering the dynamics in those relationships. In a way, I almost feel as though some of the acts you're describing could ultimately emasculate your partner.

    ...or maybe I'm just the most unromantic person here.


    ...emasculate yor partner? Showing affection is emasculating? What if I just slap him on the ass like he just made a touchdown or hugged him like he made a homerun? Like the very masculine jocks do? DAMN!

    I vote you are the most unromantic person in the universe.