Government Shut Down

  • tongun18

    Posts: 593

    Apr 06, 2011 8:38 PM GMT
    With the Democrats and Republicans still unable to broker a deal with regard to the 2011 budget (something that should have been done MONTHS ago) the looming government shut down looks more and more like a probable outcome. I made the assumption that this outcome was universally regarded as potentially disastrous and something to be avoided at all costs. Apparently, I was wrong.

    Take a look at this recent poll:

    CNN/OPINION RESEARCH CORPORATION POLL, March 11-13
    What percent of Americans think a government shutdown for a few days would be good for the country?

    Democrats 21%
    Independents 35%
    Republicans 53%
    Tea Party supporters 62%


    (the article wherein I originally found the poll can be seen here: http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/04/06/tea.party.shut.down/index.html?eref=mrss_igoogle_cnn

    Then I came across this:

    April 5, 2011
    The Honorable John Boehner
    Speaker
    United States House of Representatives
    H-232 The Capitol
    Washington, DC 20515

    Dear Speaker Boehner:

    We write to request a meeting with you to discuss House passage of S. 388, legislation to prohibit Members of Congress and the President from receiving any pay during a government shutdown.

    Over one month has passed since the Senate unanimously passed this bill. Despite written requests for immediate House consideration from Senators and Representatives, you have failed to schedule a vote on stand-alone legislation that would treat Members of Congress and the President no differently from other federal employees during a government shutdown.

    Our bill is simple: if we cannot do our work and keep the government functioning, we should not receive a paycheck. If we cannot compromise and meet each other halfway, then we should not be paid.

    As we noted in a previous letter, while appearing on the CNN program “Crossfire” in 1995, you offered your support for a bill identical to S.388, so it is unclear why you have not scheduled a vote on stand-alone legislation. Embedding “no budget, no pay” in a bill that has no chance of passage, is not fooling anybody.

    We request to meet with you as soon as possible, whether in person or via conference call, to discuss how we can work together to immediately send this legislation to the President.

    Sincerely,

    Barbara Boxer
    United States Senator

    Robert P. Casey, Jr.
    United States Senator

    Mark Begich
    United States Senator

    Michael Bennet
    United States Senator

    Sherrod Brown
    United States Senator

    Chris Coons
    United States Senator

    Kay Hagan
    United States Senator

    Tom Harkin
    United States Senator

    Amy Klobuchar
    United States Senator

    Joe Manchin, III
    United States Senator

    Claire McCaskill
    United States Senator

    Robert Menendez
    United States Senator

    Jeff Merkley
    United States Senator

    Barbara A. Mikulski
    United States Senator

    Ben Nelson
    United States Senator

    Jay Rockefeller
    United States Senator

    Debbie Stabenow
    United States Senator

    Jon Tester
    United States Senator

    Sheldon Whitehouse
    United States Senator

    Mark Warner
    United States Senator

    Ron Wyden
    United States Senator


    You can find the exact text of S. 388 here: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-112s388es/pdf/BILLS-112s388es.pdf

    S. 388 passed unanimously in the Senate, meaning it had Republican support. If the House Republicans were sincere in the desire to crack down on government spending and on an inefficient, ineffectual bureaucracy, why would they delay in passing this bill--especially if it's something the Dems would support as well? It looks like the Republicans are making the same mistake they made in '95...

    Your thoughts?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 06, 2011 8:44 PM GMT
    This is potentially disastrous for the House GOP if they failed to even consider this, especially as the party of fiscal responsibility.

    This should have been passed nearly unaminously by the House GOP as a show of good faith.

    As it is, a shutdown going on much beyond a week will almost guarantee a Democrat sweep of the House in November (assuming the Dems know how to play this to their advantage).

    A shutdown going on much more than a couple of months will likely result in the need to declare martial law and the implementation of FEMA protocols to ensure continuity of basic government.
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    Apr 06, 2011 8:49 PM GMT
    Mine? lol, are you sure?

    Well, this:

    "Democrats 21%
    Independents 35%
    Republicans 53%
    Tea Party supporters 62%"

    Those are surprising stats.

    -Doug

    ...so they're wanting to get their politician's pay while the gov't is shut down.
    Who shuts the gov't down? Is it done by a vote or a more draconian way, like our Conservative Prime Minister, (who simply had gov't prorogued).
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14305

    Apr 06, 2011 8:56 PM GMT
    If the federal government really does shut down, than it is time for the American people to wake up at election time and angrily vote out both democrats and republicans and vote in alternative political parties. Enough of the childish, tax wasting, self aggrandizement antics of both democrats and republicans. Both democrats and republicans can go fuck themselves as far as I am concerned.icon_mad.gif
  • tongun18

    Posts: 593

    Apr 06, 2011 9:03 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    alphatrigger said
    As it is, a shutdown going on much beyond a week will almost guarantee a Democrat sweep of the House in November (assuming the Dems know how to play this to their advantage).


    Nah.... social security checks are still going to go out, the post office will still deliver the mail, medicare will still be running, food stamps will still be going out (or however they get them to the recipients).

    However, the regulation-writers in the great bureaucracy won't be cranking out the thousands of pages of regulations that they normally would.

    The overwhelming majority of Americans will not be affected at all by the government shutdown.

    Oh, and the reason for the shutdown is that the Democrats didn't bother to pass a budget last year. Why was that?


    Thats not true. A shut down would greatly effect the bond market. (I can't find the article right not but...) Moody's has indicated the US would suffer a down grade in its credit rating if a shut down were to occur, that would jack-up the interest rate on our debt causing us to pay billions more in interest alone. That effects everyone.
  • tongun18

    Posts: 593

    Apr 06, 2011 9:08 PM GMT
    meninlove said Mine? lol, are you sure?

    Well, this:

    "Democrats 21%
    Independents 35%
    Republicans 53%
    Tea Party supporters 62%"

    Those are surprising stats.

    -Doug

    ...so they're wanting to get their politician's pay while the gov't is shut down.
    Who shuts the gov't down? Is it done by a vote or a more draconian way, like our Conservative Prime Minister, (who simply had gov't prorogued).


    The stats surprised the hell out of me too.

    Initially it would just be non-essential service that would be shut down: National parks and museums, passports would be delayed, the IRS would cease to issue refunds, etc. The longer things go on the more services get shut down. I'm not sure that anyone actually gives the order "stop working!", I think things just go until the money runs out.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 06, 2011 9:12 PM GMT
    Hopefully, the Republicans will get the memo that the bipartisan compromise that the American people want - means that BOTH sides make concessions, not just the Democrats.

    Thus far, it looks like the Repubs are under the delusion that the tiny minority of Americans who are "Tea Party" extremists somehow get to call the shots and get everything that they want.

    That way leads to madness - and big losses in 2012 for the Repubs.
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    Apr 06, 2011 9:33 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    rickrick91 saidHopefully, the Republicans will get the memo that the bipartisan compromise that the American people want - means that BOTH sides make concessions, not just the Democrats.

    Thus far, it looks like the Repubs are under the delusion that the tiny minority of Americans who are "Tea Party" extremists somehow get to call the shots and get everything that they want.

    That way leads to madness - and big losses in 2010 for the Repubs.


    Democrats = Let's cut $6 billion out of a $3,500 billion budget, of which $1,600 billion is borrowed in the first place.

    Boehner Republicans = Let's cut $66 billion out of a $3,500 billion budget, of which $1,600 billion is borrowed in the first place.

    T.E.A. Party Republicans = We're gonna have to cut at least $400 billion each year for the next 10 years.

    Now let's see... which one of these gives us at least a chance that the country won't go down in bankruptcy before 2020?


    But getting rid of the debt and avoiding our children being sold into slavery is an "extremist" view, can't you understand that?
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    Apr 06, 2011 9:35 PM GMT
    rickrick91 said

    That way leads to madness - and big losses in 2012 for the Repubs.



    Yes, big losses for GOP in Nov 2012

    With a dud theGOP will have at the top of the ticket...turnout will be low for GOP.
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    Apr 06, 2011 9:43 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    rickrick91 saidHopefully, the Republicans will get the memo that the bipartisan compromise that the American people want - means that BOTH sides make concessions, not just the Democrats.

    Thus far, it looks like the Repubs are under the delusion that the tiny minority of Americans who are "Tea Party" extremists somehow get to call the shots and get everything that they want.

    That way leads to madness - and big losses in 2010 for the Repubs.


    Democrats = Let's cut $6 billion out of a $3,500 billion budget, of which $1,600 billion is borrowed in the first place.

    Boehner Republicans = Let's cut $66 billion out of a $3,500 billion budget, of which $1,600 billion is borrowed in the first place.

    T.E.A. Party Republicans = We're gonna have to cut at least $400 billion each year for the next 10 years.

    Now let's see... which one of these gives us at least a chance that the country won't go down in bankruptcy before 2020?


    None of the above. It's not about cutting only, but increasing revenues. So long as the Republicans want to use this as an excuse to attack programs they don't like instead of looking at the entire budget, we will get nowhere.
  • tongun18

    Posts: 593

    Apr 06, 2011 9:47 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    tongun18 said

    Thats not true. A shut down would greatly effect the bond market. (I can't find the article right not but...) Moody's has indicated the US would suffer a down grade in its credit rating if a shut down were to occur, that would jack-up the interest rate on our debt causing us to pay billions more in interest alone. That effects everyone.



    When you're already adding $4 billion per day to the national debt..... icon_wink.gif


    Right, now double that number simply because the government was shut down. That's a pretty substantive effect for the entire country.
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    Apr 06, 2011 9:48 PM GMT
    The game both parties play with this is that "essential" employees are required t come in duting a shotdown even though they are not being paid for it. If the Republicans really want a government shutdown it should be a real shutdown. No air traffic controllers, no guards at govt bldgs, zilch, NADA! Then see how the country likes tea-party backed shutdowns.
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    Apr 06, 2011 9:56 PM GMT
    Painting oneself into the corner by not raising revenues is a very smart move. It frames the conversation into cutting only.

    Have you noticed that Ryan's budget proposal allows no substantial military cuts?

    It was so nice seeing January and February 2011 wasted by non-fiscal bills that went nowhere.
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    Apr 06, 2011 10:14 PM GMT
    q1w2e3 saidPainting oneself into the corner by not raising revenues is a very smart move. It frames the conversation into cutting only.

    Have you noticed that Ryan's budget proposal allows no substantial military cuts?

    It was so nice seeing January and February 2011 wasted by non-fiscal bills that went nowhere.


    Conservatives would be willing to compromise on raising taxes a bit if they were assured that 100% of it, along with the cuts would go solely towards the debt. But we both know that's not how things operate. Liberals will just raise the spending bar and so everything will be for naught.
  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Apr 06, 2011 10:21 PM GMT
    This should be a simple bill that provides nothing more than enough money to keep the government running.

    But, the Republicans are insisting on tacking on all of their pet projects like eliminating funding for Pell grants (college education), funding for Planned Parenthood, funding for Head Start (preschool daycare and education), as well as ending funding for Food Stamps, Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security.

    The Republicans want to balance the budget on the backs of the poorest and neediest and the elderly and the children.

    And, at the same time, they insist on giving more tax breaks to millionaires and billionaires and to corporations that paid NO INCOME TAX WHAT SO EVER.

    Go ahead.
    Shut it down.

    The Democrats have nothing to lose.
    Obama comes across as calm, sensible, reasonable, and conciliatory.

    Shutting down the government will doom the Republicans to losing their majority in the House of Representatives, next year. And, Obama will cruise to victory.
  • tongun18

    Posts: 593

    Apr 06, 2011 10:22 PM GMT
    We're getting a little off bead here....

    Does anyone here think a government shut down for a few days would be a good thing?
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    Apr 06, 2011 10:29 PM GMT
    Shut it down 1 day of the week (e.g. Friday)...just to see the work on Monday double up.

    What if the terrorists decide to attack on that day?icon_eek.gif

    Better yet, the weeks that Congress isn't working, it shouldn't be paid. (My understanding is that it's 2 weeks on, 1 week off--just a little worse compared to a hospitalist's schedule!)

    They should just shut it down for months so that Medicare won't be able to pay, then we'll see if it's a good thing.
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    Apr 06, 2011 10:48 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    Christian73 said
    None of the above. It's not about cutting only, but increasing revenues.


    Incorrect.

    The Federal government has been fed enough.

    It's a spending problem, not a revenue problem.


    Incorrect. The deficits and growing debt are the result of cutting taxes while increasing spending. In order to fix them we need to reverse, raising taxes and cutting spending for a time.

    Even Ryan's proposal is completely not serious because he wants to gut Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid while not touching one penny of military spending or having Congresspersons put skin in the game with a a salary cut. It's all sacrifice for poor people and continued enrichment of the already super-wealthy.
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    Apr 06, 2011 10:50 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 saidAll our liberals here on RJ - who LOVE to look backwards and to this day blame everything on Bush - still haven't answered the question:

    Why did the Democrats not even bother to pass a budget for this year?

    We wouldn't be in this position if the Democrats had fulfilled one of the basic requirements of their job!


    Why did the Bush administration never once put the military spending for Iraq and Afghanistan in the annual budget instead choosing to fund the way via emergency supplemental bills and claiming that if the Dems didn't approve them they were aiding the terrorists?
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    Apr 06, 2011 11:08 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    Christian73 said
    southbeach1500 said
    Christian73 said
    None of the above. It's not about cutting only, but increasing revenues.


    Incorrect.

    The Federal government has been fed enough.

    It's a spending problem, not a revenue problem.


    Incorrect. The deficits and growing debt are the result of cutting taxes while increasing spending. In order to fix them we need to reverse, raising taxes and cutting spending for a time.



    Incorrect yet again.

    When you have a spending problem, you don't keep throwing even more money into the pit. You attack the root of the problem which is too much spending.


    Incorrect. It's not (just) a spending problem. Deficits occur when revenue does not match or exceed expenditures. So you can either lower expenditures or increase revenue, or both. Where we are now requires the latter approach.
  • Goofeyman

    Posts: 199

    Apr 06, 2011 11:16 PM GMT
    my favorite subject!

    with the passage the then democrats under nancy pelosi, passed obamacare, the entire federal budget got screwed up...

    objectively speaking, the level the budget is at now is inthe hands of the democrats.....the gop does want the budget to pass, its up to the dems.

    as far as the tea party goes, here we go again, dont take responsiblity.....and blame it on the tea party....what about the unions? they have a huge stake in this..I wonder why no one is blaming them??

    I do not believe the budget will fail.....the dems will o.k. in the last seconds.

    I'm not worried.icon_biggrin.gif
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    Apr 06, 2011 11:30 PM GMT
    Cgavic saidmy favorite subject!

    with the passage the then democrats under nancy pelosi, passed obamacare, the entire federal budget got screwed up...

    objectively speaking, the level the budget is at now is inthe hands of the democrats.....the gop does want the budget to pass, its up to the dems.

    as far as the tea party goes, here we go again, dont take responsiblity.....and blame it on the tea party....what about the unions? they have a huge stake in this..I wonder why no one is blaming them??

    I do not believe the budget will fail.....the dems will o.k. in the last seconds.

    I'm not worried.icon_biggrin.gif


    There is nothing even resembling truth in your post.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Apr 06, 2011 11:53 PM GMT
    Cgavic saidmy favorite subject!

    with the passage the then democrats under nancy pelosi, passed obamacare, the entire federal budget got screwed up...

    objectively speaking, the level the budget is at now is inthe hands of the democrats.....the gop does want the budget to pass, its up to the dems.

    as far as the tea party goes, here we go again, dont take responsiblity.....and blame it on the tea party....what about the unions? they have a huge stake in this..I wonder why no one is blaming them??

    I do not believe the budget will fail.....the dems will o.k. in the last seconds.

    I'm not worried.icon_biggrin.gif


    Have you been sniffin' Whitney Houston's Purse!!!!!!

    Where the F**k have you bin for the last ten years?
    The healthcare plan hasn't really even been implemented yet and you're trying to pin the inflated budget on THAT?
    and what about the "UNIONS"? Oooooooh .... those big bad union workers that are bilking tax payers out of all their hard earned money
    Stop eating your TV dinners in front of the FOX TV channel
    and get a life

    On average ........................... EVERY person in the TOP 2% over the next Ten years is going to make One MILLION dollars because of the Bush tax cuts
    Tax cuts that will IMMEDIATELY slash the ENTIRE deficit by 33%

    I know you're not worried ... with statements like that you have no idea what to worry about
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 07, 2011 12:14 AM GMT
    As a college student, who apparently doesn't understand politics, I was under the impression that the government shutdown was one of those empty threats politicians make when they run out of things to fear monger over. Is this a "we've over extended our budget, thus need to force our employees on an unpaid vacation" situation or a "vote for us or we vote to stop doing our jobs" situation?
    Does someone want to give me a good summery of this current mess?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 07, 2011 12:20 AM GMT
    I told you that the Repubs had painted themselves into a corner. They are on the fast track to becoming a non-party.