Pathological liars....

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    Apr 08, 2011 3:49 AM GMT
    Ive been seeing a counselor dealing with my break up from my husband. We've come to the conclusion that 1 of his issues was that he was a pathological liar, especially when it came to me catching him cheating.

    He would have the most unbelievable & stupid excuses for when I caught him & of course it was always "if you loved me, youd believe me"

    The counselor says thats so typical of a pathalogical liar playing on the emotions of the other person to make them believe them.

    You ever experience this? It makes me sick to my stomach that guys do this to someone they say they love! Atleast be a man & say "i fucked up, im sorry" & etc. I just cant believe these lying ass men out here like this....makes me sick.
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    Apr 08, 2011 4:12 AM GMT
    I dealt with that same issue and manipulation for a very long time. My therapist is great.

    The problem is that they truly believe their own lies. It's a false reality that they live in. The good thing is that you're over that, and you can move on. It's 'God's' way of preparing you for the perfect relationship.
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    Apr 08, 2011 5:41 AM GMT
    Yes I used to lie all the time, even about the smallest, unimportant things. It wasn't until I realized how much I hurt and lost someone important to me because of my lies that I stopped.
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    Apr 08, 2011 6:02 AM GMT
    redbull saidHe would have the most unbelievable & stupid excuses for when I caught him & of course it was always "if you loved me, youd believe me"

    Comeback: If you loved me, you wouldn't lie to me.
    Perhaps also: if you loved yourself, you wouldn't lie.
  • dfrourke

    Posts: 1062

    Apr 08, 2011 6:04 AM GMT
    redbull saidIve been seeing a counselor dealing with my break up from my husband. We've come to the conclusion that 1 of his issues was that he was a pathological liar, especially when it came to me catching him cheating.

    He would have the most unbelievable & stupid excuses for when I caught him & of course it was always "if you loved me, youd believe me"

    The counselor says thats so typical of a pathalogical liar playing on the emotions of the other person to make them believe them.

    You ever experience this? It makes me sick to my stomach that guys do this to someone they say they love! Atleast be a man & say "i fucked up, im sorry" & etc. I just cant believe these lying ass men out here like this....makes me sick.



    Yes. I have experienced this [or what I believe to be similar to your situation]. The revelation that helped me move past the lying was the notion that the lies were not personal to me...meaning, three boyfriends before and at least two boyfriends after experienced the same thing...easier for me not to take it personally...the guy had a problem...I wasn't looking for the problem when we were together...and clearly the problem will continue until he finds some help.

    Once I stopped expecting him to behave like a rational healthy individual, I found it easier for myself to move to a place of acceptance. On another note, I did not trust myself [in choosing guys] for awhile and remained single for about 5 years [this also helped].

    Good luck. Hope you find some peace with this.

    - David icon_wink.gif
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    Apr 08, 2011 6:29 AM GMT
    Is it the fact that you can't believe these guys come up with these crazy ass excuses or is it the fact that you can't believe you were actually crazy enough to believe those crazy excuses to begin with? Just wanted to point that out.

    Ask yourself who's more the fool? The liar or the person who believes the lie?
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    Apr 08, 2011 8:32 AM GMT
    Guy101 saidIs it the fact that you can't believe these guys come up with these crazy ass excuses or is it the fact that you can't believe you were actually crazy enough to believe those crazy excuses to begin with? Just wanted to point that out.

    Ask yourself who's more the fool? The liar or the person who believes the lie?


    You believe them because you love them. Don't blame the victim.
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    Apr 08, 2011 9:11 AM GMT
    Guy101 saidIs it the fact that you can't believe these guys come up with these crazy ass excuses or is it the fact that you can't believe you were actually crazy enough to believe those crazy excuses to begin with? Just wanted to point that out.

    Ask yourself who's more the fool? The liar or the person who believes the lie?


    I cannot believe such incredibly insensitive comments. There are people out there with serious personality disorders who are MASTERS at manipulation.

    You've obviously never been through it. Best say nothing than appear looking like an insensitive prat.
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    Apr 08, 2011 10:03 AM GMT
    blactor said
    Guy101 saidIs it the fact that you can't believe these guys come up with these crazy ass excuses or is it the fact that you can't believe you were actually crazy enough to believe those crazy excuses to begin with? Just wanted to point that out.

    Ask yourself who's more the fool? The liar or the person who believes the lie?


    I cannot believe such incredibly insensitive comments. There are people out there with serious personality disorders who are MASTERS at manipulation.

    You've obviously never been through it. Best say nothing than appear looking like an insensitive prat.


    LOL. To answer your question, Blactor....no, I haven't been through it because I have a 24/7hr working bullshit detector. Maybe you should follow your own advice or do I need to show you how insensitive (or rather how sensitive you are you are) I can be and go find one of your recent threads. Grow thicker skin.

    How about you read the OP's post again. Granted he has every right to be mad but he should also be mad at himself too. He admitted to believing stupid and outrageous lies and obviously entertained them meaning he had to of known they were lies to begin and yet still went along with it. So who's fault is that? I'm not as insensitive so much as you are stupid to miss the validity of my comment. Deal with it.

    I get that love makes people do some pretty crazy stuff but I hate it when people use it as an excuse or shield to cover up their short comings because they chose not to apply a little common sense or go with their gut feelings on a situation they could've avoided. That's annoying and it's a cop out. If you think something sour is going on in your sweet world then you need to man up and call somebody out on their bullshit because denying and ignoring it makes things worse and someone is bound to get hurt because of it. Big pink elephant in the room but no one wants to say anything until it decides to put a giant hole in the wall.

    There's being in love and then there's being in reality and guess what? Reality is fucking harsh. Oh yeah. As far as you calling me insensitive goes...it keeps me from having to deal with ridiculous stuff like this so I guess I'm the better man for it unlike you, Blactor. LOL.

    OP...sorry you had to go through that with your ex but in all honesty it's not completely his fault if you decided to believe his nonsense beginning with lines like "If you loved me you'd believe me". Red Flag should've came up especially if it's line he constantly used. No offense but that's the reality of this situation. You can hate me all you want but at least you now I'm being honest even if it does make me seem like an insensitive prat as someone would have you believe. Hahahahaha.

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    Apr 08, 2011 11:13 AM GMT
    Its really not the fact that I believed his bullshit lies but you let them go because the person makes you believe that their love for you is so sincere and true. Its a combination of being a pathalogical liar and some type of double life or something they live in their mind.

    As one poster said, in their mind even though they know they are wrong they even make themselves believe their own lives to justify their wrong doing no matter who it hurts.
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    Apr 08, 2011 11:27 AM GMT
    Ps; I have a good bullshit detector too and know when to end something: but the way you communcated it was totally inappropriate. Granted the OP has some part to play, but he needs support- not being told he's a fool. Think how you'd feel? Treat others the way YOU want to be treated!
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    Apr 08, 2011 11:28 AM GMT
    Ps; I have a good bullshit detector too and know when to end something: but the way you communcated it was totally inappropriate. Granted the OP has some part to play, but he needs support- not being told he's a fool. Think how you'd feel? Treat others the way YOU want to be treated!
  • DanOmatic

    Posts: 1155

    Apr 08, 2011 11:40 AM GMT
    I had a similar experience. I dated a guy who had a larger-than-life charisma and personality--which he used to manipulate me and others into buying into his lies and bullshit. I eventually wised up and dumped him, but not without some heartache.

    I've noticed that people with that sort of magnetic appeal have come to assume that there will always be plenty of people out there willing to do their bidding, and therefore they have no personal sense of integrity or responsibility.
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    Apr 08, 2011 11:44 AM GMT
    NC3athlete saidI had a similar experience. I dated a guy who had a larger-than-life charisma and personality--which he used to manipulate me and others into buying into his lies and bullshit. I eventually wised up and dumped him, but not without some heartache.

    I've noticed that people with that sort of magnetic appeal have come to assume that there will always be plenty of people out there willing to do their bidding, and therefore they have no personal sense of integrity or responsibility.



    Exactly- people have vulnerabilities and we are all only human.. these things happen to people....at the end of the day we have to take a stand but its a learning curve for each of us.
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    Apr 08, 2011 12:23 PM GMT
    NC3athlete saidI had a similar experience. I dated a guy who had a larger-than-life charisma and personality--which he used to manipulate me and others into buying into his lies and bullshit. I eventually wised up and dumped him, but not without some heartache.

    I've noticed that people with that sort of magnetic appeal have come to assume that there will always be plenty of people out there willing to do their bidding, and therefore they have no personal sense of integrity or responsibility.


    It's the sociopath mindset.

    I was with my ex for 8 years, and he is a pathological liar. I totally understand what the OP is feeling. It's difficult to grasp the contradiction of behavior of a pathological liar because often we want to believe in the good in people so much and have trouble accepting the deceit. Unfortunately, some people are just selfish creeps.
    It is not your fault OP. You are doing the right thing by discussing this with a therapist. The best that you can do is use this as a learning experience, and do not settling for anything but a person who will cherish you next time around!
    For the first year after my split I was devastated and foolishly thought I had failed. Now over two years on, I'm single, have my confidence back, and happier than ever. Ending that relationship turned out to be the best thing that could have happened for me.
    Good luck mate!
  • HndsmKansan

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    Apr 08, 2011 12:30 PM GMT
    I haven't actually. I can't imagine going through that and have someone try and use emotion to base their reason as to why I should believe them.

    Good that you are taking the time to really understand why ... why it all happened. I'm sure it makes more sense as to why your relationship needed to come to an end.
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    Apr 08, 2011 1:09 PM GMT
    blactor saidPs; I have a good bullshit detector too and know when to end something: but the way you communcated it was totally inappropriate. Granted the OP has some part to play, but he needs support- not being told he's a fool. Think how you'd feel? Treat others the way YOU want to be treated!


    Well that's your opinion on the situation, blactor, and you're certainly entitled to them but if you think what I've said is inappropriate then as a courtesy I suggest you block and ignore my comments from here on out so you don't have to deal with them anymore. I DO treat people the way I want to be treated (that's a given) and it seems to work well for me for if it didn't I wouldn't have friends who cherish my honesty. I'd say half the reason they befriended me is because I'm honest and don't bullshit with niceties.

    As for supporting goes, I would think my "insensitivity" and rather harsh and "inappropriate" honesty (as you call it) on the matter was being supportive. If I was physically there with the OP now I would punch him in the shoulder, call him foolish, tell him he fucked up, tell him to suck it up because he got played, tough it out and move on with his life instead of coddling him and saying something patronizing like "There, there. It will be alright. You couldn't have known." Fuck that. On too many occasions do so many people sugarcoat stuff like this and it stifles people.

    How would I feel? I'd feel fucking stupid and I'd want my friends or anyone who was capable of being honesty to tell me so even at the cost of being insensitive. That's how'd I feel. Being supportive doesn't mean you cradle a weakness. You point out that flaw(s) and apply a solution to make to fix it, get it over and press on forward knowing that when you need an honest answer you have someone there to give it to you straight. It's like correcting someone on long division.

    OP, you believe freely. It is not something that is forced upon you. You wanted to believe your ex would stop lying to you (you knew he was) and you let your emotions get the better of you because you wanted to believe things would be better even though you knew differently. You let your heart take control and you put your brain in the backseat. Simple as that. At some point I know you had to have spoken to your friends about your situation and you should be kicking their asses for not being supportive and keeping it real and if they did then you should be kicking yourself for not listening. No sense crying over spilled milk though. What's done is done. Just don't do it again. Love is a wonderful thing (I'm sure) but it's also a horrible and damaging beast as you have just found out first hand. Lesson learned and I hope you aren't in the habit of making repeat mistakes.

    I'm glad you are being proactive with this and able to talk about it. You should take the good with the bad and grow/learn from it.
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    Apr 08, 2011 3:21 PM GMT
    Guy101,

    There is fine line between being right and being an asshole, and I think you've missed it.
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    Apr 08, 2011 3:55 PM GMT
    My ex suffered from Pseudologia fantastica, also known as pathological lying. He would lie about when he cheated, but would also lie about small things.. Such as.. He drove to the store when he really walked.. He would actually believe these lies. It is a mental disorder and he is a sick boy.
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    Apr 08, 2011 4:04 PM GMT
    I hate guys like that. I'm a pretty honest person, but if you know you fucked up, just admit it. I was in a relationship where I found out everything (he left his email open on my computer icon_eek.gif ). I found things were weird when I asked who a person was and his response was "no one and dont talk to him or im breaking up with you." Found out it was the "other guy" and lets just say he couldnt keep a straight story to save his life. NEXT!
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    Apr 08, 2011 4:10 PM GMT
    I'm sorry, man. I've been intertwined with guys like that before in my life (not romantically, luckily) and there is nothing you can do other than to completely break off contact. Its's almost impossible to believe that they really believe their lies, but they do, so there's no reasoning with them. Give them any chance and they'll suck you in again.

    And Guy101, I agree tough love is sometimes appropriate, but only once you've offered the appropriate level of patience and sympathy but your friend (even an anonymous, cyberspace one) refuses to do anything to better his situation. That doesn't seem to be the OP's problem. Meaning you just come across like kind of a jerk. Which should be ok for me to say since I'm "point[ing] out that flaw(s) and apply[ing] a solution to make to fix it."

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    Apr 08, 2011 4:23 PM GMT
    Ganymede80 saidGuy101,

    There is fine line between being right and being an asshole, and I think you've missed it.


    Thank you!!!!!
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    Apr 08, 2011 4:31 PM GMT
    icefan saidYes I used to lie all the time, even about the smallest, unimportant things. It wasn't until I realized how much I hurt and lost someone important to me because of my lies that I stopped.


    I'm in the same boat as you. I've hurt a lot of people lying about things that honestly didnt matter at all. But realizing why I would lie was really powerful. It helped me learn more about what makes my head work, and the complexity of what it means to tell a lie.

    I'm a million times stronger for being honest than I ever was spinning tales.
  • Celticmusl

    Posts: 4330

    Apr 08, 2011 4:33 PM GMT
    Some guys can't face the facts and the real life traumas they inflict on others. Maybe he is just in denial that he is a total douche.

    Other than that, look up NPD(narcissistic personality disorder). It's pretty scary how someone could go through life this effed up. One of the traits of someone with NPD is not even being able to remember events that have occurred if it makes them look like a bad person. Their memory is like swiss cheese with tons of holes. My ex couldn't even remember arguments or events if he didn't come out of it being the "winner". If I ever beat him at a video game or board game he would never play me again, lol.

    Did your bf remember the situations or just deny them?
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    Apr 08, 2011 8:48 PM GMT
    Ganymede80 saidGuy101,

    There is fine line between being right and being an asshole, and I think you've missed it.


    blactorThank you!!!!!


    And then there's a fine line between fantasy and reality. There's a definite difference between having thin skin and having thick skin though and I think some of you here have vags and need to douche/wipe the sand out.

    Offer still stands though. Block/ignore me if you don't wanna hear it. Merely viewing my profile to see what's going on in it doesn't solve anything. LOL.

    There are two people to fault for this. I think the OP needs to hear it so he can be stronger and not allow himself to ever go through that again. Am I a jerk? Meh! That's up for debate. In any case I'm being honest about my words and I hope they help.

    In lieu of all this though what's done is done and I'm glad you're getting the help you need in order to move on. Some of you here just need to breathe. LOL.