CANADIANS: Election 2011

  • charlieviiper...

    Posts: 328

    Apr 13, 2011 6:02 AM GMT
    Did anyone watch the Leaders Debate tonight?

    Thoughts? Feelings?

    I thought Jack Layton did a superb job.
  • TrentGrad

    Posts: 1541

    Apr 13, 2011 6:36 AM GMT
    charlieviiperi saidDid anyone watch the Leaders Debate tonight?

    Thoughts? Feelings?

    I thought Jack Layton did a superb job.


    I avoided it...I already have a good idea who I'm voting for.

    I did catch the recap though on "The National," and though it pains me to admit it, I think Andrew Coyne is right: Ignatieff's reaction to the possibility of a coalition government including the BQ is going to haunt him for the rest of the campaign!

    It may be the blunder that the Conservatives ride to a majority government!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 13, 2011 2:15 PM GMT
    TrentGrad said
    charlieviiperi saidDid anyone watch the Leaders Debate tonight?

    Thoughts? Feelings?

    I thought Jack Layton did a superb job.


    I avoided it...I already have a good idea who I'm voting for.

    I did catch the recap though on "The National," and though it pains me to admit it, I think Andrew Coyne is right: Ignatieff's reaction to the possibility of a coalition government including the BQ is going to haunt him for the rest of the campaign!

    It may be the blunder that the Conservatives ride to a majority government!



    lol, except that Stephen made a deal with the Bloc and the NDP back in 2004 to overthrow the Paul Martin government. He said it was not a coalition, but a co-opposition. My my, what a talent for splitting hairs.
    "Oh what a tangled web we weave, when we practice to deceive."

    A great many, including us would like to see Stephen get back in with a minority gov't. We've suffered under a conservative majority before. We've suffered under a liberal majority before. On a Provincial level, we've suffered under an NDP majority before. What's the common theme for suffering? Majority government.

    This means many are forced to vote strategically instead of cleanly voting for the person they want.

    -Doug
  • charlieviiper...

    Posts: 328

    Apr 14, 2011 2:26 AM GMT
    I'd rather have Liberals in power than Conservatives, but I'm an NDP voter.

    It sucks that to vote "strategically" I'd have to vote for Liberal.

    Isn't the point of the democratic process to vote for who you want, not
    who you're voting against?

    Haha oh well.
  • metatextual

    Posts: 774

    Apr 15, 2011 11:53 AM GMT
    i wish proportional representation was in place
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 15, 2011 10:05 PM GMT
    i would agree with the guy who said earlier that majority govt is actually quite detrimental to the canadian deliberative democratic process. minority govt helps to keep PMs in line and it forces them to compromise. i would be perfectly happy with either a conservative or liberal minority in the outcome of this election.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 15, 2011 10:13 PM GMT
    thecanadianone saidi would agree with the guy who said earlier that majority govt is actually quite detrimental to the canadian deliberative democratic process. minority govt helps to keep PMs in line and it forces them to compromise. i would be perfectly happy with either a conservative or liberal minority in the outcome of this election.


    Us too.

    -Doug and Bill

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 16, 2011 9:37 AM GMT
    yea i cant stand it when throughout the debate harper pleas to the camera "i hope that voters give us a majority govt, we can do so much more for you... blah blah blah."
    yes i liked how he brought us thru the recession and everything but i really dont like some of his policies, especially his views on the environment.
    a family friend who is a judge for the BC provincial court system told me the harper govt wants to get tough on crime to the point that judges would not be allowed to grant "slap on the wrist" kinds of judgments on those who dont really have a criminal record and didnt commit such a major offence (ex, shoplifting something relatively small). judges now have the option to impose community service or something without a criminal record. a criminal record can severely alter a persons chances at getting a job, etc.
    i dunno. i just think thats over the top and unnecessary. i like some of harpers other views but this is ridiculous.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 16, 2011 2:06 PM GMT
    "i like some of harpers other views but this is ridiculous."

    It is. Especially considering our own little Prov. right-wing gov't shut down courthouses. Go figure.

    You know, the NDP has some interesting stuff on the table. Their hearts are certainly in the right place.

    -Doug
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 16, 2011 2:12 PM GMT
    I've been quiet on here because I am the poll convasser for the NDP in my part of Charlottetown, and we we are running a strong campaign - enough so that Jack Layton did a brief stop here in a bid to show our candidate will have the ear of the leader.

    Our whole pitch here is based on vote strategically by voting NDP to send a swing vote that will have a lot on influence on the national agenda in any minority government, Liberal or Conservative.


    It resonates well in the smallest province where the population (140,000) feel totally ignored and powerless yet totally dependent upon Confederation.


    We are also repeating the message "have you felt well served by the other Parties?" For they first time ever, there is a viable alternate choice in Charlottetown and a vote for the NDP will not be a waste."

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 16, 2011 2:16 PM GMT
    Upper_Canadian saidI've been quiet on here because I am the poll convasser for the NDP in my part of Charlottetown, and we we are running a strong campaign - enough so that Jack Layton did a brief stop here in a bid to show our candidate will have the ear of the leader.

    Our whole pitch here is based on vote strategically by voting NDP to send a swing vote that will have a lot on influence on the national agenda in any minority government, Liberal or Conservative.


    It resonates well in the smallest province where the population (140,000) feel totally ignored and powerless yet totally dependent upon Confederation.


    We are also repeating the message "have you felt well served by the other Parties?" For they first time ever, there is a viable alternate choice in Charlottetown and a vote for the NDP will not be a waste."




    Finally! I was hoping you'd post. Bill and I will be doing exactly that.

    You should see what's going on around here. There are six people running with Conservative slates (some are start-up smaller parties like the, er, Christian Heritage Party icon_eek.gif ) and only one NDP .

    -Doug


  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 16, 2011 2:23 PM GMT
    the campaign manager claims we are "leading in polls" icon_lol.gif


    He's a good guy but claims like that make me icon_rolleyes.gif what polls? We track all available polling data and that is national - nothing we have captures riding trends nor do our local news sites carry any reliable indication of voter preference.

    The reception at the doorsteps is encouraging and I can feed a general receptivity to our message back to the campaign office, there is a legitimate mood of momentum (but I have worked on campaigns before and I know not to put too much faith in the office mood as a predictor.

    My poll includes a lot of declared support.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14372

    Apr 16, 2011 2:34 PM GMT
    Best of luck to the people of Canada in your next national election. Choose who you all think are the best candidates to lead your country. It is none of my damn business so I am not going to influence any of you or tell you who to vote for.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 16, 2011 4:17 PM GMT
    roadbikeRob saidBest of luck to the people of Canada in your next national election. Choose who you all think are the best candidates to lead your country.


    Hey Rob, we're just lamenting how it may not be that easy. Majority gov'ts tend to have that mouth drying effect, lol! Too much of that carte blanche thing.

  • charlieviiper...

    Posts: 328

    Apr 16, 2011 6:59 PM GMT
    I've always been a fan of the liberal party, but Michael Ignatieff just doesn't do it for me. He hasn't even been in Canada for the past 12 years. He just seems like an elitist trying to convince everybody he's "one of them."

    Harper, on the other hand isn't so much better. His government is so secretive, his policies on the environment, or businesses don't appeal to me.

    Not to be super partisan or anything, but Layton just seems like an all-around friendly guy. I think his plans on Health care are solid, as well as many other social policies.
  • TrentGrad

    Posts: 1541

    Apr 16, 2011 7:18 PM GMT
    meninlove said
    TrentGrad said
    charlieviiperi saidDid anyone watch the Leaders Debate tonight?

    Thoughts? Feelings?

    I thought Jack Layton did a superb job.


    I avoided it...I already have a good idea who I'm voting for.

    I did catch the recap though on "The National," and though it pains me to admit it, I think Andrew Coyne is right: Ignatieff's reaction to the possibility of a coalition government including the BQ is going to haunt him for the rest of the campaign!

    It may be the blunder that the Conservatives ride to a majority government!



    lol, except that Stephen made a deal with the Bloc and the NDP back in 2004 to overthrow the Paul Martin government. He said it was not a coalition, but a co-opposition. My my, what a talent for splitting hairs.
    "Oh what a tangled web we weave, when we practice to deceive."

    A great many, including us would like to see Stephen get back in with a minority gov't. We've suffered under a conservative majority before. We've suffered under a liberal majority before. On a Provincial level, we've suffered under an NDP majority before. What's the common theme for suffering? Majority government.

    This means many are forced to vote strategically instead of cleanly voting for the person they want.

    -Doug


    Oh, Harper has a lot of skeletons in his closet...what baffles me is that Ignatieff has sat on his hands for the last couple of years and said NOTHING about them!

    Look up some of the statements he allegedly made from his NCC days...some of them are pretty anti-Canada and anti-Canadian...not to mention anti-public health care and extremely pro-USA.

    He also seemed to be supporting at one time loving Alberta first, and then Canada second...which is fair if you're a provincial politician, an avowed regionalist who has no national aspirations, or you're a resident of Alberta with no designs on being the PM of the entire country: however to make such statements when you had in past, and apparently planned in future, to become PM...is akin in my opinion to anything the BQ did.

    Though he never advocated Alberta independence, in an open letter to Ralph Klien, he advanced the notion of a firewall around Alberta...which could be fairly interpreted as a smaller but nonetheless significant attempt to separate Alberta from the rest of Canada!

    Kind of funny that he would trash Canada before an American conservative group, neglect his own coalition designs of toppling Paul Martin, advocate a kind of separatism within the country...and then his party would spend the last couple of years trashing Ignatieff with quotes from his past!

    Oh, and he is steadfast against the idea of coalitions that topple the party with the most seats...yet he has aligned Canada very closely with Israel of late. That's not a bad thing...I support Israel as well: however it's also a fact that Israel's PM/government is not being challenged by Harper, in spite of the fact that Kadima won more seats than Likud!

    Likud of course is leading the government because Kadima couldn't form a working coalition with the other parties...and Harper doesn't seem to question whether Netanyahu or the current Israeli government is legitimate!

    In other words...Harper is polished, but there is a lot about him that seems contradictory...and so it's kind of hard for me, even as I agree with his actions to crack down on human smuggling, to support him in any way, shape or form.

    And I have no doubt that if the Conservatives get a majority, some of their extremist benefactors (like the group "REAL Women") will want them to re-vote on changing the definition of marriage.

  • TrentGrad

    Posts: 1541

    Apr 16, 2011 7:39 PM GMT
    thecanadianone saidyea i cant stand it when throughout the debate harper pleas to the camera "i hope that voters give us a majority govt, we can do so much more for you... blah blah blah."
    yes i liked how he brought us thru the recession and everything but i really dont like some of his policies, especially his views on the environment.
    a family friend who is a judge for the BC provincial court system told me the harper govt wants to get tough on crime to the point that judges would not be allowed to grant "slap on the wrist" kinds of judgments on those who dont really have a criminal record and didnt commit such a major offence (ex, shoplifting something relatively small). judges now have the option to impose community service or something without a criminal record. a criminal record can severely alter a persons chances at getting a job, etc.
    i dunno. i just think thats over the top and unnecessary. i like some of harpers other views but this is ridiculous.


    But that's just it: Harper didn't bring us through the recession...our insurance and financial institutions remained strong because of capitalization requirements and rigid lending practices that pre-date Harper! Our financial institutions were limited in their exposures to toxic assets because of those regulations...thereby not requiring the government of Canada to step in and back the banks in any significant way.

    The banks didn't struggle, therefore access to capital didn't constrict in Canada to the same degree that it did in other nations, which in turn didn't constrict the domestic economy: THAT is what got Canada through the recession...or from what I'm hearing, I should call it "recession: part one!" And of course as the Government of Canada didn't have to prop up floundering banks, we didn't encounter the debt crunch that is hitting countries like Ireland and apparently to a lesser extent, the UK.

    Indeed, you could say that Harper has in fact hurt Canada...we're back to running deficits and debts...and although any responsible government would have stimulated the economy, thereby likely creating a deficit...it is a fact that Stephen Harper's deficit has been made worse by cutting corporate taxes almost annually, and by lowering the GST.

    If Harper continues to cut taxes, the shortfall in revenues will need to be made up somewhere...especially if the suggested high costs of his crime and punishment legislation (which he apparently refuses to divulge) also add to the equation.

    So, what will Canadians lose?

    "Harper has been a member of the National Citizens Coalition for almost two decades — and it was founded explicitly to oppose publicly funded, universal Medicare. He ran the organization from 1998-2002, during his political hiatus."

    Hmmm...


  • TrentGrad

    Posts: 1541

    Apr 16, 2011 7:42 PM GMT
    jprichva saidDo y'all have elections and everything up there? That's so sweet!
    I thought you all just chose, you know, like tribal leaders or something.
    I just adore your little country.


    Reading this, my first thought was, I wanted to bitch slap you.

    But damn you, that handsome photo of yours worked on me again! :p

    icon_lol.gif
  • TrentGrad

    Posts: 1541

    Apr 16, 2011 7:44 PM GMT
    roadbikeRob saidBest of luck to the people of Canada in your next national election. Choose who you all think are the best candidates to lead your country. It is none of my damn business so I am not going to influence any of you or tell you who to vote for.


    Interpretation: there are too many Canadians who talk about American politics...so I'm going to come on here and tell y'all to mind your own damn business, but I'll work the phrasing so that it seems like I'm being thoughtful!

    icon_rolleyes.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 16, 2011 7:46 PM GMT
    jprichva saidDo y'all have elections and everything up there? That's so sweet!
    I thought you all just chose, you know, like tribal leaders or something.
    I just adore your little country.

    yup and the tribe voted to cut off your oil and water.

    Kiss kiss.

    we are sweet, aren't we?

  • TrentGrad

    Posts: 1541

    Apr 16, 2011 7:51 PM GMT
    thecanadianone saidi would agree with the guy who said earlier that majority govt is actually quite detrimental to the canadian deliberative democratic process. minority govt helps to keep PMs in line and it forces them to compromise. i would be perfectly happy with either a conservative or liberal minority in the outcome of this election.


    Did you pay attention to when, in this most recent House, the other three parties passed a motion to force Canada to live up to it's Kyoto commitments? Before I proceed, let me say I disagreed with the motion mainly because I disagree with Kyoto...but I digress.

    In our House of Commons, the most vital national democratic institution that forms laws, the majority of sitting MP's passed the resolution to require Canada to live up to Kyoto commitments.

    And the Conservatives...ignored it! They ignored it...THEY IGNORED IT!

    Likewise, when it came to the end of Canada's Afghan mission, the other three parties wanted all Canadians removed from Afghanistan...but Harper decided to extend the mission, merely re-christening it for "training purposes.

    You don't have to hate the Conservatives or support everything the other parties do to see that Democracy has taken a MAJOR step back since Harper's been in office!!!
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14372

    Apr 16, 2011 9:05 PM GMT
    jprichva if anyone is crazy on here, it is you. You have no legitimate right calling me crazy pal. You need to look at yourself in the mirror before criticizing others.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 16, 2011 9:14 PM GMT
    So what are the burning issues in this election?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 16, 2011 9:25 PM GMT
    Caslon18000 saidSo what are the burning issues in this election?



    Well that depends, the burning of coal? They never discussed laws around burning in the debate.

    icon_wink.gif

    icon_lol.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 16, 2011 11:21 PM GMT
    Caslon18000 saidSo what are the burning issues in this election?


    What they're promising

    Conservatives
    Allow couples with children under 18 to split up to $50,000 in income to pay less tax, but only once the federal books are balanced.
    Provide financial support, such as loan guarantees, for the Lower Churchill hydro mega-project in Labrador.
    End the long-gun registry.
    Liberals Introduce grants for post-secondary students of $1,000 a year over four years, $1,500 a year for lower-income students, at cost of $1 billion a year.
    Expand CPP benefits, allowing people to voluntarily save an additional five to 10 per cent of their income in a CPP-backed fund, and boost the guaranteed income supplement by $700 million a year.
    Create a $1-billion family care plan to let people take time off work to care for seriously ill or aging relatives.
    New Democrats
    Cap credit card interest rates at five percentage points above prime, and limit transaction fees retailers are forced to pay credit card companies, saving a typical card holder an average of about $60 a month.
    Cancel $2 billion in government subsidies for oilsands, and put the money toward clean energy.
    Invest $165 million to train and recruit 1,200 doctors and 6,000 nurses over the next 10 years. Lure back 300 Canadian doctors living abroad.
    Greens
    Reduce the federal deficit by $10.7 billion over three years.
    Spend $1.6billion over three years on home energy retrofit grants.
    Legalize and tax marijuana to bring in $2.5 billion over three years.
    Source: The Canadian Press