Red Cross study: 60% of teens approve of torture

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    Apr 13, 2011 9:27 PM GMT
    Anybody read Hannah Arendt any more? icon_evil.gif
    summary from wikipediaIn her reporting of the Eichmann trial for The New Yorker, which evolved into Eichmann in Jerusalem: A Report on the Banality of Evil (1963), she coined the phrase "the banality of evil" to describe Eichmann. She raised the question of whether evil is radical or simply a function of thoughtlessness—the tendency of ordinary people to obey orders and conform to mass opinion without critically thinking about the results of their action or inaction.


    http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2011-04-12/red-cross-study-finds-60-percent-of-young-people-support-torture/#But now, during a time of two overseas wars, Americans’ opinions on torture seem to have fractured, and largely on generational lines. A new study by the American Red Cross obtained exclusively by The Daily Beast found that a surprising majority—almost 60 percent—of American teenagers thought things like water-boarding or sleep deprivation are sometimes acceptable. More than half also approved of killing captured enemies in cases where the enemy had killed Americans. When asked about the reverse, 41 percent thought it was permissible for American troops to be tortured overseas. In all cases, young people showed themselves to be significantly more in favor of torture than older adults.


    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/30/once-america-started-wate_n_631447.html In addition, the newspapers are much more likely to call waterboarding torture is a country other than the United States is the perpetrator. In The New York Times, 85.8% of articles (28 of 33) that dealt with a country other than the United States using waterboarding called it torture or implied it was torture while only 7.69% (16 of 20icon_cool.gif did so when the United States was responsible. The Los Angeles Times characterized the practice as torture in 91.3% of articles (21 of 23) when another country was the violator, but in only 11.4% of articles (9 of 79) when the United States was the perpetrator.

    As soon as Republicans started quibbling over the definition of torture, traditional media outlets felt compelled to treat the issue as a "controversial" matter, and in order to appear as though they weren't taking a side, media outlets treated the issue as unsettled, rather than confronting a blatant falsehood. To borrow John Holbo's formulation, the media, confronted with the group think of two sides of an argument, decided to eliminate the "think" part of the equation so they could be "fair" to both groups.


    American exceptionalism at its worst.
  • Webster666

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    Apr 13, 2011 10:18 PM GMT
    Teens.
    Teenagers.
    People between 13 and 19 years old.

    How intelligent, well informed, and full of life experiences were you during your teen years ?
    How able were you to make good decisions during your teen years ?
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    Apr 13, 2011 10:25 PM GMT
    That's the rub: teens are exposed to the most mind-numbing propaganda dressed up as legitimate news, and falsehoods parading as viewpoints of made-up controversies when there is none in reality. No wonder some of them even doubt that the Earth is millions of years old.

    I was busy studying when I was a teen. I made good enough decisions to get into college and med school. I also read Hannah Arendt in high school and did calculus...although I don't remember much of it now in my dotage.icon_razz.gif
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    Apr 13, 2011 10:27 PM GMT
    Webster666 saidTeens.
    Teenagers.
    People between 13 and 19 years old.

    How intelligent, well informed, and full of life experiences were you during your teen years ? They ALL grew up during the Bush administration.icon_wink.gif
    How able were you to make good decisions during your teen years ?
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    Apr 13, 2011 11:14 PM GMT
    I do think that people who are proven guilty of extremely heinous crimes should be tortured. Good techniques could include lashing with a wet whip or controlled electrocution. Something more severe and permanently damaging could include busting eardrums. Though not torture, forced sterilization would be a great punishment for rapists and child molesters. One might find it surprising, though, that I don't support the death penalty.
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    Apr 13, 2011 11:35 PM GMT
    I do think that people who are proven guilty of extremely heinous crimes should be tortured. Good techniques could include lashing with a wet whip or controlled electrocution. Something more severe and permanently damaging could include busting eardrums.

    For what possible purpose?

    And don't say crime prevention because you just have to take a swift glance at history to see that torture does not prevent crimes at all.
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    Apr 13, 2011 11:42 PM GMT
    US teens are reflecting years of preaching by the Republican Party that torture is acceptable, a President & Vice-President who said it was, Republican Congressional leadership that continues to say it's OK, and right-wing media figures who endorse & encourage it. These kinds of public pronouncements & positions from authority figures have consequences. This really does not surprise me. We may have a generation of monsters on our hands, as at least one comment above demonstrates.
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    Apr 13, 2011 11:49 PM GMT
    Lorac saidI do think that people who are proven guilty of extremely heinous crimes should be tortured. Good techniques could include lashing with a wet whip or controlled electrocution. Something more severe and permanently damaging could include busting eardrums.

    For what possible purpose?

    And don't say crime prevention because you just have to take a swift glance at history to see that torture does not prevent crimes at all.


    No, not crime prevention; just punishment icon_smile.gif
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    Apr 13, 2011 11:51 PM GMT
    New2Chattanooga said
    Lorac saidI do think that people who are proven guilty of extremely heinous crimes should be tortured. Good techniques could include lashing with a wet whip or controlled electrocution. Something more severe and permanently damaging could include busting eardrums.

    For what possible purpose?

    And don't say crime prevention because you just have to take a swift glance at history to see that torture does not prevent crimes at all.


    No, not crime prevention; just punishment icon_smile.gif


    And no, I'm not a teafucking republican.
  • TrentGrad

    Posts: 1541

    Apr 14, 2011 12:12 AM GMT
    New2Chattanooga said
    Lorac saidI do think that people who are proven guilty of extremely heinous crimes should be tortured. Good techniques could include lashing with a wet whip or controlled electrocution. Something more severe and permanently damaging could include busting eardrums.

    For what possible purpose?

    And don't say crime prevention because you just have to take a swift glance at history to see that torture does not prevent crimes at all.


    No, not crime prevention; just punishment icon_smile.gif


    Well, to be fair to you, the ideas you're throwing around are hardly new.

    I would've been hard pressed to find too many Ontarians who would've objected to torturing Karla Homolka for the role she played in the murders of Kristin French and Leslie Mahaffy!

    Lets be honest guys...if we were confronted with a pedophile who had abused children, how many of us wouldn't want to see him whipped without mercy?

    I think most people, if they're being honest, could envision a type of crime where people would seem justified in using torture.

    However in the context of the OP, the use of torture or outright murder seems pretty frightening!
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    Apr 14, 2011 1:08 AM GMT
    I think most people, if they're being honest, could envision a type of crime where people would seem justified in using torture.

    I can see situations where I as an individual, as a gut reaction would want to beat someone to a pulp. That's human nature.

    Torture committed by a government on the other hand... no. Even if you ignore all the ways a justice system allowing torture could be abused, still just no. It would involve a coldly calculated plan to bring hurt to another human being and I don't care what that person has done, I don't care what he/she deserves, a civilized society doesn't lower itself to that.
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    Apr 14, 2011 1:35 AM GMT
    Lorac saidI think most people, if they're being honest, could envision a type of crime where people would seem justified in using torture.

    I can see situations where I as an individual, as a gut reaction would want to beat someone to a pulp. That's human nature.

    Torture committed by a government on the other hand... no. Even if you ignore all the ways a justice system allowing torture could be abused, still just no. It would involve a coldly calculated plan to bring hurt to another human being and I don't care what that person has done, I don't care what he/she deserves, a civilized society doesn't lower itself to that.


    Define civilized. They torture people in Iran and they think that's a civilized way to handle things. Why is our civilization in the West more civilized than theirs?
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    Apr 14, 2011 1:52 AM GMT
    New2Chattanooga saidDefine civilized. They torture people in Iran and they think that's a civilized way to handle things. Why is our civilization in the West more civilized than theirs?


    Rule of law for one thing.

    In Iran, a gay man can be tortured and hung just for being found in another man's bed, or in some cases, on the testimony of a neighbour.

    That said, I do not entirely disagree with your premise of meeting certain crimes with corporal punishment.

    What is "cruel and unusual punishment? Is it not cruel and unusual to punish tax-payers for the crimes of individuals by forcing them to warehouse these criminals for their natural born lives at great cost?

    Is it not cruel to subject these men to various cruelties that go on behind bars (prison rape among them) which may not be related to the original charge (especially for drug use/possession charges)...?

    Or would it be more humane to consider the following:

    Steal a car? Lose your hand, or restore the cost of the car four-fold.

    Rape someone? Surgical castration, without sedation, and your family foots the bill for your hospital stay.

    Kill someone? You die by hanging, or firing squad, and your family is charged for the cost of the bullets and incineration of the corpse (after any useful organs are involuntarily harvested and sold on the market to defray costs of detaining the convict on death row).

    Sadly, humans are pretty damned talented for coming up with ever nastier ways to kill, maim, and hurt another.
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    Apr 14, 2011 2:03 AM GMT
    8th Amendment to the US Constitution
    (Third and Fourth) Geneva Convention
    That is all.
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    Apr 14, 2011 2:18 AM GMT
    Ermine said8th Amendment to the US Constitution
    (Third and Fourth) Geneva Convention
    That is all.


    QFT.

    Though the back-up for this is all the SCOTUS decisions that establish most forms of corporal punishment to be "cruel and unusual".

    Still, I do wish sometimes that we had a more expedient process for disposing of unrepentant, reprobate criminals who are by their admission or by the heinous degree of their crimes beyond any hope of reformation.

    Lifetime prison sentences/warehousing people like animals and subjecting them to rape can hardly not be considered cruel, if not also unusual.

    Gonna channel me some Rod Serling (Twilight Zone) here... and wonder:

    Perhaps a method can be found to remove the conscience or brain from a body and keep it alive in a nutrient bath for the duration of its sentence for a lower per capita cost ?
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    Apr 14, 2011 2:31 AM GMT
    alphatrigger said
    Ermine said8th Amendment to the US Constitution
    (Third and Fourth) Geneva Convention
    That is all.


    QFT.

    Though the back-up for this is all the SCOTUS decisions that establish most forms of corporal punishment to be "cruel and unusual".

    Still, I do wish sometimes that we had a more expedient process for disposing of unrepentant, reprobate criminals who are by their admission or by the heinous degree of their crimes beyond any hope of reformation.

    Lifetime prison sentences/warehousing people like animals and subjecting them to rape can hardly not be considered cruel, if not also unusual.

    Gonna channel me some Rod Serling (Twilight Zone) here... and wonder:

    Perhaps a method can be found to remove the conscience or brain from a body and keep it alive in a nutrient bath for the duration of its sentence for a lower per capita cost ?


    That seems like a good idea, but what about family visitation?
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    Apr 14, 2011 2:38 AM GMT
    New2Chattanooga saidThat seems like a good idea, but what about family visitation?



    Errm. Pay 50 cents to press the button that sends some "feel good juice" and a recordable video footage to the brain-jar you wish to visit?


    *tries to save the sinking ship* icon_razz.gif
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    Apr 14, 2011 3:07 AM GMT
    Sounds like we'll soon have a generation of people who are going to be in support of genocide and extreme torture.
    Yeah, I said it...there will be another holocaust if these kids keep that mindset.
    In fact, here's rock solid proof of what I'm saying:
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/1495009 (3rd post down)
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    Apr 14, 2011 3:33 AM GMT
    paulflexes saidSounds like we'll soon have a generation of people who are going to be in support of genocide and extreme torture.
    Yeah, I said it...there will be another holocaust if these kids keep that mindset.
    In fact, here's rock solid proof of what I'm saying:
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/1495009 (3rd post down)


    From where did you get genocide/holocaust?
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    Apr 14, 2011 3:40 AM GMT
    New2Chattanooga said
    paulflexes saidSounds like we'll soon have a generation of people who are going to be in support of genocide and extreme torture.
    Yeah, I said it...there will be another holocaust if these kids keep that mindset.
    In fact, here's rock solid proof of what I'm saying:
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/1495009 (3rd post down)


    From where did you get genocide/holocaust?
    I can see patterns...something that's apparently not being taught in schools anymore.
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    Apr 14, 2011 3:54 AM GMT
    New2Chattanooga said
    paulflexes saidSounds like we'll soon have a generation of people who are going to be in support of genocide and extreme torture.
    Yeah, I said it...there will be another holocaust if these kids keep that mindset.
    In fact, here's rock solid proof of what I'm saying:
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/1495009 (3rd post down)


    From where did you get genocide/holocaust?


    It may seem like a stretch of logic, but the gist of that is the third poster made a rather nasty remark implying that a certain RJ member kill himself rather than annoy people with repetitive posts.

    And that the younger generation (particularly teens coming of age now who grew up during the early 2000's) being very desensitized to torture and other activities that cross into crimes against humanity.

    To be honest, that thread of thought has some validity - with modern video gaming and mass media reporting and perhaps to some extent even glorifying graphic violence and torture, the most impressionable minds over the past decade (post 9/11) being the young men and women are now entering their 20s, and may have become so inured to the ideas of torture and displacement and even genocide itself against people deemed to be "enemies of the state".

    The payout of this sort of media bombardment its anesthesizing effects against such brutality may be far worse than what happened more than 70 years ago, where little conditioning beyond fear of what the GeStaPo might do to a private citizen was cause for turning one's blind eye to gross injustice, as Germans living near extermination camps once did, or the many Germans who did not resist to the shedding of blood the evils being worked by the Third Reich against minorities and "misfits" in their midst.
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    Jul 29, 2011 12:17 AM GMT
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