Advice needed *gasp* Yes I know... I am actually asking for advice... (@ being gay and why I regret it - sometimes)...How do I cope with this?

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    Apr 14, 2011 9:30 AM GMT
    EDIT: overall good responses, some of the responses however seem to be misunderstanding my post... twink + 5 ft. 7 does NOT equate to feminine or bottom (that was the Tl;DR version).

    Ok, before I begin, I want to let you know that I believe my reasons (points 1 and 2) for the regret I feel are in fact stupid and in fact, reasons I shouldn't worry about, but they do occur in reality and I cannot ignore them any longer. Essentially, they are held high on the "Even though it is unfortunate, it is TRUE!" scale....

    1) My height (5 ft. 7) and my role in the relationship. Being 5 ft. 7, I have to go out of my way to engage with men who are my height or lower because many of the messages or let's say, interactions I get, are from people > than 5 ft. 7. I have NO problem whatsoever with dating people much taller than me, but here is the dilemma:
    Many people who are taller than me expect me to be the "woman" or "the bitch" or "the caretaker" in the relationship. So, I usually have to correct them and have that "Extra talk" as yourname2000 puts it. As awful as it sounds to women IRL, I usually have to correct these men and say: "If you are looking for that, go date a woman... I am a man, I am no one's bitch except my own"

    2) My build and my role in bed...(the "twink" build or as some men refer to it as)...Now, I have no problem with being referred to as having a twink build... but when you start using that as your reason for me being the "bottom" in a relationship, I get angry... Top or bottom has nothing to do with how your body looks like... I have known some muscular bottoms and some "twink" tops (I consider msyelf a twink top/vers). But, no matter how I say it (Even without them seeing my ass pictures), they still don't get it in their head that I am a top/vers. SO usually, I end up having to end the convo. with them. Also, please note that I am going to the gym just for this... to define my muscles even more.


    So yea, these reasons are stupid, but I honestly find that they hold true in gay society.with respect on what people expect from you in a relationship and how you are supposed to act.


    Sorry if God chose to give me a 5 ft. 7 body with a twink build and I don't follow your expectations - I will make sure to blame God for it next time... instead of you for wanting me to act a certain way (which I can control).

    So, how do I cope with this?

    Even better... how would YOU cope with this, if you ever were born as a 5 ft. 7 male with a twink build?

    CHOICE A)
    Would you do what I amd doing and go to the gym just to become more bulky?

    or...

    CHOICE B)
    would you "suck it up" and "accept your fate" ?

    CHOICE C)
    (add your own)


    EDIT:
    I reject those who BASE the relationship on roles and body build. I do.. because frankly, I agree with you mikey101... it should not be based on body build or roles... however others do that to me.That is why I am making this thread... partly to see if I am doing the right thing by rejecting those who assume roles before even getting to know me.
  • mikey_101

    Posts: 250

    Apr 14, 2011 9:44 AM GMT
    Not sure about all the choices etc.....

    See yourself in naked honesty.... who are you, what is your role, how does your life work out longterm?

    Visualise it, embrase it, love yourself..... project this image to the world.

    You will find that people are drawn to you for being you.... not some preconcived notion of body type or sexual role.



    In your post you are coninualy refering to your body type and sexual role. Get over it, accept yourself and life will unfold before you.

    Build, role etc. are all labels that you hang on yourself.... ie. they are only as important as you make them, and you seem to be making them quite important from your OP.

    Labels are there to divide people and polarise oppinion - rise above this and see the divinity everywhere.

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    Apr 14, 2011 9:54 AM GMT
    mikey_101 saidNot sure about all the choices etc.....

    See yourself in naked honesty.... who are you, what is your role, how does your life work out longterm?

    Visualise it, embrase it, love yourself..... project this image to the world.

    You will find that people are drawn to you for being you.... not some preconcived notion of body type or sexual role.



    In your post you are coninualy refering to your body type and sexual role. Get over it, accept yourself and life will unfold before you.

    Build, role etc. are all labels that you hang on yourself.... ie. they are only as important as you make them, and you seem to be making them quite important from your OP.

    Labels are there to divide people and polarise oppinion - rise above this and see the divinity everywhere.



    Ok, I understand where you are coming from... but that does not happen IRL.

    I see myself as a man, a person that knows what he wants in life, a person that doesn't get "pushed over" and does things for others out of love not because that person said so. I see myself as a top/vers and a person who CAN be dominant when they want to be. I also see myself as a sensitive person... very sensitive towards the need of my partner.

    Problem is, no one else views me that way.
    I don't buy the "they will see you if that is how you portray yourself" bullshit (sorry for the harsh way I put it).. but they just see me as "he WANTS to be dominant but won't be because of his build"...


    Do you see where I am going with this?
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    Apr 14, 2011 9:57 AM GMT
    yourname2000Go home with whoever you want (by telling them whatever they want to hear)...then roofie them.

    Problem solved. Sooo...do you give out cookies for solved problems, like the other guy?


    I will start doing that. About time to force things my way.

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  • mikey_101

    Posts: 250

    Apr 14, 2011 10:01 AM GMT
    [quote][cite]_

    Do you see where I am going with this?[/quote]

    Yes, round in circles.

    Love yourself, know what you want, give yourself willingly and wait for the right guy.

    You mention roles again in your response - your role, expected role.... but you dont mention your openness to share your life and addapt and develop into a mutualy beneficial relationship where role is not an issue becuase you make sure you are both satisfied in all respects.

    If you continue to view yourself as a 'body type' and a 'sexual role', that is all you will ever be to anyone else.

    It an old saying but a basic fundamental:

    BE THE CANGE YOU WISH TO SEE.
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    Apr 14, 2011 10:07 AM GMT
    mikey_101 said[quote][cite]_

    Do you see where I am going with this?[/quote]

    Yes, round in circles.

    Love yourself, know what you want, give yourself willingly and wait for the right guy.

    You mention roles again in your response - your role, expected role.... but you dont mention your openness to share your life and addapt and develop into a mutualy beneficial relationship where role is not an issue becuase you make sure you are both satisfied in all respects.

    If you continue to view yourself as a 'body type' and a 'sexual role', that is all you will ever be to anyone else.

    It an old saying but a basic fundamental:

    BE THE CANGE YOU WISH TO SEE.

    lol @ round in circles... I don't think you understand what I am trying to say here... so it may be my fault for not being clear...

    @ be the change you wish to see:
    I stated in my first post that I was going to the gym to put on some bulk and I am continuing to do that.

    Also, if you read the first post you would notice that I reject those who BASE the relationship on roles and body build (see the bolded and underlined sentences in my original post) I do.. because frankly, I agree with you... it should not be based on body build or roles... however others do that to me.

    but that is why I am making this thread... partly to see if I am doing the right thing by rejecting those who assume roles before even getting to know me....
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    Apr 14, 2011 10:52 AM GMT
    yourname2000 saidI used to know a couple where the top was much smaller, shorter and younger. His husband, Henry (the bottom) was twice his age and when asked about their "roles" he used to say "we did the math: 20 goes into 40 a whole lot more than 40 goes into 20". So I think you're imagining much here (and I do the same incidently, in the opposite way, so I'm talking to myself, too.) It may be an extra conversation that you have to have, but when you meet your guy, he's going to be extra glad you made the effort.


    basically this...
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    Apr 14, 2011 11:43 AM GMT
    Actually i have always been confused about the Top and Bottom concept and i tend to ask about such concept with any guys who are talking to me and also having a bf. And yet, still confused.

    I don't know why people need to be categorized, in fact i used to think feminine or twink looking guys have the tendency to be bottom, but that's just the tendency and it's not so obviously true for all of the guys. So if a guy comes at you and checks you out if you're a top or bottom so that he could ask you out for a date, i think it's best to ignore his shallowness.

    Btw, i think you look great yourself and there seems to be many other guys who are interested in you too, so there's no need to change so that you can get somebody to notice you're a top/vers, unless you do want to change and you like to be changed.

    Moreover, so if there's a choice, would you choose a twink looking guy as a partner? or a sexy masculine bulky guy? or a total feminine guy?
    For me i'd say i do choose a sexy bulky guy, but that's just preference and funny how most of the nice guys i made friends with are not super bulky at all, still old saying but characters do really talk i think so.

    P/S: I still don't get the Top and Bottom concept, can anyone open a class? I promise to do all the homeworks icon_sad.gif
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    Apr 14, 2011 11:56 AM GMT
    tyklong saidActually i have always been confused about the Top and Bottom concept and i tend to ask about such concept with any guys who are talking to me and also having a bf. And yet, still confused.

    I don't know why people need to be categorized, in fact i used to think feminine or twink looking guys have the tendency to be bottom, but that's just the tendency and it's not so obviously true for all of the guys. So if a guy comes at you and checks you out if you're a top or bottom so that he could ask you out for a date, i think it's best to ignore his shallowness.

    Btw, i think you look great yourself and there seems to be many other guys who are interested in you too, so there's no need to change so that you can get somebody to notice you're a top/vers, unless you do want to change and you like to be changed.

    Moreover, so if there's a choice, would you choose a twink looking guy as a partner? or a sexy masculine bulky guy? or a total feminine guy?
    For me i'd say i do choose a sexy bulky guy, but that's just preference and funny how most of the nice guys i made friends with are not super bulky at all, still old saying but characters do really talk i think so.

    P/S: I still don't get the Top and Bottom concept, can anyone open a class? I promise to do all the homeworks icon_sad.gif


    What don't you understand about the Top and Bottom concept?

    Top = giver
    Bottom = receiver

    both have no correlation with height, weight, attitude, etc...

    BUT people always tend to try and relate them... so I get mistaken as a bottom more often than not and have to spend time to explain to them that I am more than what meets the eye... meh... like yourname2000 said... "It is better to talk first about it"

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    Apr 14, 2011 1:18 PM GMT
    Ah yep i tend to receive the same answer about giver and receiver but the answer confuses me as well. Because what is the "thing" to give and receive here? Somebody says it's about sex because a guy likes to fuck while the other like to be fucked. But i do still believe that's not about sex right? Does that mean 2 bottoms will just hang around and play dolls in bed while they were in relationship?

    Seriously other than sex, i can't think of anything more likely to be the "thing" to be given and received here (love? money?), because 1-way giving or receiving doesn't seem to make a relationship last long, i think so.

    Btw, so i think you get your own solution from yourname2000's advice already right? Communication is always a great tool, because i don't think pictures can tell much about a person.

    P/S: I haven't been mistaken to be top/bottom/vers or whatever because i don't know what category i'm in but i'm usually mistaken to be a guy looking for sugar daddy or quick sex because i'm a Vietnamese. And i really can't explain to the whole world or change my nationality at all (cuz i'm fucking proud of where i came from). So just let the talking do the job.
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    Apr 14, 2011 1:20 PM GMT
    Others have issues around this top and bottom thing.
    You don't.

    Everytime I hear those terms I think of my sister and Mom shopping for tops and bottoms, lol!

    -Doug
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    Apr 14, 2011 1:23 PM GMT
    In other words you don't want to be stereotyped a particular way!

    By the way, u look like a bottom Mohammed, just sayin
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    Apr 14, 2011 1:27 PM GMT
    I definitely agree that build bears absolutely no relation to sexual role. Nor does dick size for that matter.

    Some of the most muscular men I've slept with that had the biggest dicks were big ol' bottoms and they loved it.

    I think you just have to be who you are and not get too bothered about what other people want to pigeon-hole you as. 99% of guys you interact with will either not be your type or you won't be their type, that's just life. Forget that and just concentrate on that 1% that will like you for you and will also be the type of guy you want.
  • Iakona

    Posts: 367

    Apr 14, 2011 1:34 PM GMT
    You should see what it is like in South Beach, some of the taller, more built guys down there end up being big bottoms. That's the thing, one just can't and shouldn't assume anything. As for your question, I don't think you need to change a thing, just have the "conversation" with them. Or roll them onto their front and show them which you prefer. You're a martial artist, I am pretty sure you can figure out how to do that....lol
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    Apr 14, 2011 1:48 PM GMT
    I think what you're really talking about is "power". Maybe you feel that your power is misunderstood upfront and then you have to bring the guy around.

    To your point about "if you want a woman...", I am curious about that. Are you feminine? If so, being feminine does mean having characteristics of a woman which means being more nurturing, attention to detail, vulnerable etc...so maybe that's something to consider. IF that is the case. Otherwise, why be feminine? It shouldn't mean that you're the bitch though. So this is why I think what you're driving at is more of a power issue. If you're not feminine, disregard that paragraph because it obviously wouldn't apply.

    Being a total top, I'll admit that I assume that "twinks" don't mind being thrown around a little in bed especially the ones that are attracted to me. Because of my build, guys assume that I'm gonna violently hate fuck them which I'm not always in the mood for (its A LOT of work). Just communicate upfront, maybe find a way to make a joke about it so that you don't come across as having an attitude. Also, while you're telling him what you're looking for, be sure to remember to ask him what he's looking for as well.
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    Apr 14, 2011 1:49 PM GMT
    AussieGuy87 saidIn other words you don't want to be stereotyped a particular way!

    By the way, u look like a bottom Mohammed, just sayin


    lol, wut?

    It's possible to look at someone and know what they like to do sexually without any outward indicators? (back in the 70s there was the hanky code, which made it possible)

    Interesting psychic ability.


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    Apr 14, 2011 1:57 PM GMT
    I am 5'7" also and my boyfriends usually range from 5'11" to 6'3" and usually i get asked to top. A big part of perception is how a person acts in the sack and some outside it, if you lead by being the dominate or most active partner you'll probably end up on top. so to speak. I wouldn't sweat it, just let nature run its course and enjoy.
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    Apr 14, 2011 2:03 PM GMT
    M, if you are as dominant in your interactions with potential partners as you are on the forum here, you will have no trouble convincing them that you're a top. Just don't lead with your ass pics. icon_wink.gif
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    Apr 14, 2011 2:11 PM GMT
    Brownale saidI think what you're really talking about is "power". Maybe you feel that your power is misunderstood upfront and then you have to bring the guy around.

    To your point about "if you want a woman...", I am curious about that. Are you feminine? If so, being feminine does mean having characteristics of a woman which means being more nurturing, attention to detail, vulnerable etc...so maybe that's something to consider. IF that is the case. Otherwise, why be feminine? It shouldn't mean that you're the bitch though. So this is why I think what you're driving at is more of a power issue. If you're not feminine, disregard that paragraph because it obviously wouldn't apply.

    Being a total top, I'll admit that I assume that "twinks" don't mind being thrown around a little in bed especially the ones that are attracted to me. Because of my build, guys assume that I'm gonna violently hate fuck them which I'm not always in the mood for (its A LOT of work). Just communicate upfront, maybe find a way to make a joke about it so that you don't come across as having an attitude. Also, while you're telling him what you're looking for, be sure to remember to ask him what he's looking for as well.


    Brownale makes some good points. At first I was going to say just get over it, but I knew it wouldn't come out with what I really meant. You're short and you're not a big muscular guy, you can't do a lot about that. You are who you are. You're always going to have to prove who you are, that most likely will never change regardless of what situation you're in. Tall guys, like me, have had to face the same issues with often the opposite ideas. Feminine guys face perceptions they must deal with. Big burly muscular guys also. It's inherent with first impressions and visual analysis.

    I would try not to make it an issue but communicate it when it comes up. If you find a guy who talks down to you and wants to treat you like his bitch, tell him to go pound salt. It's an indication of the kind of guy you don't want anyway.

    Be yourself, you're very expressive but I wouldn't 'make' this an issue that puts you on the defense. Accept that it's going to happen and figure out easy ways to dispel or ward off the perception early on and then you can work on building meaningful relationships with guys that are worthy of your time.
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    Apr 14, 2011 2:12 PM GMT
    And another thought. As difficult as you may find this conversation, gay men are used to negotiating roles in a relatively straightforward way. Think how much more difficult it is for our straight brothers to have discussions about sex with women! It's enough to give me the willies.
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    Apr 14, 2011 2:19 PM GMT
    I think you should stop worrying about how other people perceive you. You will NEVER be able to control that.

    Instead, focus on less indeterminate things. If you want to build a more muscular body, do so, but realize that such a feat will only change the perceptions of a few people and not everyone.

    And stop associating gender based stereotypes with sex roles/position proclivities. That only leads to frustration.
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    Apr 14, 2011 3:18 PM GMT
    C: If you want something bad enough in life, you'll have it.

  • HndsmKansan

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    Apr 14, 2011 3:24 PM GMT
    You should probably accept your "fate in life" and live accordingly...

    LOL.. sorry, I just burst out laughing when I read that part, not as a slight to you in any way. I think you should be whoever or whatever you want in a way that is uniquely you. I know a number of shorter (than me) gay guys who are powerhouses.. nobody would brand them "the woman" or "the bottom" because they happen to be 5 ft 7 inches tall.

    In the end, you need to be happy with who you are. If you like gymming it and self improvement, kudos to you, glad to hear it. Long term happiness and satisfaction is where it is at. Hopefully those guys in the future won't see someone who is 5ft 7.. but rather just you and the great guy you are...

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    Apr 14, 2011 4:12 PM GMT
    I used to be that skinny twinky guy back then, and i hated it too. Everybody saw me as some weak guy they can pick on. Nobody realized until later on how much of a fighter i am.
    So i lifted weights, tried to gain as much muscle as i can(and im still trying, lol!).
    Now some guys get the impression that i am some power top. Which is fine because i am vers.
    What i'm getting at is, if youre a top, Look like one. Change how you present yourself.
    At the end of the day, who cares what people think. Whats really important is how You feel about yourself.
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    Apr 14, 2011 4:57 PM GMT
    tangent: short guys get V's faster...that's extremely manly. most of the guys in Tom Of Finland drawings would have to be under 5'7" to have those builds

    perception of gender has nothing to do with measurements and everything to do with how you carry yourself. informed people know better than to assume anything about someone else's intimacy based on perception. and do you really care what uninformed people think?

    C: I'd take my time and only talked to me as a human, then a male, then a male they could be intimate with....and never bother with someone who'd treat me like a cardboard cutout. if you're going to let people do that, you should charge.