The Federal Reserve Bank-is not a government run National Bank-it is privately owned !!!

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    Apr 02, 2008 9:41 PM GMT
    Simply do a search on FEDERAL RESERVE BANK CREATED IN 1913, and you'll see what I'm talking about. Bush has proposed giving sweeping new powers to the Feds, this is not in our citizenry's best interests. The government picks the head of the fed, ie: Alan Greenspan, and now Bernanke, beyond that they make their rules, our government doesn't, and do you think for a minute that the rules will be made to benefit the average working man? NOT !!! This real estate "BUBBLE" came about because of deregulation, which in turn permitted "PREDATORY BANKING" and who got hurt? THE LITTLE GUY !!! Now Bush is proposing giving new powers to this PRIVATE INTERPRISE, powers which should be in the hands of CONGRESS, not a private institution for PROFIT. There was a case in the 1980's which is the most recent large case that exposed this Banks status as a Private Institution, you can see this at http://www.OpEdNews.com/maxwrite/link.php?id=55922
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    Apr 02, 2008 9:59 PM GMT
    The following is from the wikipedia artcile on the Federal Reserve. The whole article is very interesting to read:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve


    The Federal Reserve System (also the Federal Reserve; informally The Fed) is the central banking system of the United States. Created in 1913 by the enactment of the Federal Reserve Act, it is a quasi-public (part private, part government) banking system[1] composed of

    (1) the presidentially-appointed Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System in Washington, D.C.;

    (2) the Federal Open Market Committee;

    (3) 12 regional Federal Reserve Banks located in major cities throughout the nation acting as fiscal agents for the U.S. Treasury, each with its own nine-member board of directors;

    (4) numerous private U.S. member banks, which subscribe to required amounts of non-transferable stock in their regional Federal Reserve Banks; and

    (5) various advisory councils.

    Currently, Ben Bernanke serves as the Chairman of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System.

    Balance between private banks and responsibility of government

    The system was designed out of a compromise between the competing philosophies of privatization and government regulation.[17] While planning the design of the system, some people wanted the system to have generally private aspects whereas others wanted more government involvement. The system that resulted ended up being a compromise between these two philosophies. In the current system, private banks are for-profit businesses but there are restrictions on what they can do. These restrictions placed on private banks are government regulations. The Federal Reserve System is the part of government that regulates the private banks. The balance between privatization and government involvement is also seen in the structure of the system. Private banks elect members of the board of directors at their regional Federal Reserve Bank while the members of the Board of Governors are selected by the President of the United States and confirmed by the Senate. The private banks give input to the government officials about their economic situation and these government officials use this input in Federal Reserve policy decisions. In the end, private banking businesses are able to freely run a profitable business while the U.S. government, through the Federal Reserve System, oversees and regulates the activities of the private banks.


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    Apr 02, 2008 10:04 PM GMT
    Thank you Caslon !!!! what you wrote will further Tweek the interest of us RJ'rs !!!
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    Apr 02, 2008 10:07 PM GMT
    Do you remember silver certificates that we had for money before the Federal Reserve Notes came out?

    I last saw a few of them in a drug store when an old lady was paying for her meds with them. The young female store clerk had never seen one and had to ask the pharmacist if they were real money. I could recognize them from my place several people back in line. I was like, wow!

    I bought every one off of the clerk when I got to the register. They are pristine. They must have been part of the money the old lady was saving in her mattress.
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    Apr 02, 2008 10:51 PM GMT
    Yes I sure do Caslon !!! I have just a few left. I was recently involved with settling an old ladies estate, who had over 500 of them !!! can you imagine?? and she had one -one hundred dollar silver cirtificate. she got an average of $5.00 per bill on the ones, and I never did hear what the 100 bill went for. Now our money is just printed when they see fit, I read recently when more was printed off to help stave off coming up short on money with runs on the banks, that within days the dollar value fell some more. Its a pretty good deal for the owners of the Federal Reserve, the money gets printed, loan it to the USA for bushes war, and they earn interest off of it. WHAT A NIFTY LITTLE SET UP FOR THEM EH !!!!! (a bit of a symplistic example, but that's what the reality boils down too)
  • Squarejaw

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    Apr 03, 2008 1:03 AM GMT
    It's not like there are private investors earning profits off the Fed.

    "The Federal Reserve's income is derived primarily from the interest on U.S. government securities that it has acquired through open market operations... After paying its expenses, the Federal Reserve turns the rest of its earnings over to the U.S. Treasury."
    http://www.federalreserve.gov/generalinfo/faq/faqfrs.htm#6
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    Apr 03, 2008 1:29 AM GMT
    Well SquareJaw, if there wasn't something in it for JP Morgan and his wealthy cohorts back when they finally got this through, then why would they have pushed so hard to be the governments banker? They certainly didn't do it out of the kindness of their heart, at least I doubt it very much. Look deeper, and you'll find that its a lot more sinister than what meets the publics eye.
  • Squarejaw

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    Apr 03, 2008 1:34 AM GMT
    I spent more years than I care to remember in a Ph.D. program in economics at Stanford (never did finish, though), and I can tell you that the situation is far less sinister than you're making it out to be. Applied economics is a difficult field, and no policy is perfect, but the Fed has been a source of stability and prosperity. And it's a good thing that it has a measure of independence from the Congress and the President -- the Fed's worst policies generally came about when it succumbed to political pressure.
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    Apr 03, 2008 1:42 AM GMT
    I think DevilDog is drafting a 5-page treatise before posting here...
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    Apr 03, 2008 1:53 AM GMT
    1969er !!! good !!! I hope he does, because he is the one who first got me acquainted with this subject, he gave me a great site to go too, and I've lost the exact one he gave me. So I'm sure he'll refer to it !!! TEll him I'm looking forward to it !!!
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    Apr 03, 2008 2:11 AM GMT
    I'm with Squarejaw on this one.

    It's not hard to find even in any big business. But its even easier in the government. Think Senator, think CEO. Which is more likely to have to be compromising and horse-trading to get what they want.

    Having the US dollar in the hands of private and public hands gives it more legitimacy globally. It also protects it from strict political manipulations. I don't want John "I don't know much about economics" McCain to be responsible for putting a political appointee in charge of the money - that friend from New Mexico who was the accountant for his campaign in 2002 - you know ole' whats-his-name. He was a CPA or at least he was a teller at the local bank.



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    Apr 03, 2008 2:19 AM GMT
    Do just a little bit of research on the consequences of central banks that are intimately tied with the national governments and you'll see a long history of corruption. Often, the worst central bank policies in any nation come when they are tied into the political structure and vulnerable to the whims of popularly elected officials.

    Democracy does not make everything better. There are some instances in which too much popular input creates negative consequences.
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    Apr 03, 2008 3:40 AM GMT
    realifedad said 1969er !!! good !!! I hope he does, because he is the one who first got me acquainted with this subject, he gave me a great site to go too, and I've lost the exact one he gave me. So I'm sure he'll refer to it !!! TEll him I'm looking forward to it !!!


    Dad, I say this because I do respect you:

    Do not get sucked into these conspiracy theories about the Fed. They have been the staple droolings of right-wing idiots for DECADES. There is nothing to them.

    I know, I was on the grassy knoll.
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    Apr 03, 2008 4:17 AM GMT
    jprichva said[quote][cite]realifedad said[/cite] 1969er !!! good !!! I hope he does, because he is the one who first got me acquainted with this subject, he gave me a great site to go too, and I've lost the exact one he gave me. So I'm sure he'll refer to it !!! TEll him I'm looking forward to it !!!


    Dad, I say this because I do respect you:

    Do not get sucked into these conspiracy theories about the Fed. They have been the staple droolings of right-wing idiots for DECADES. There is nothing to them.

    I know, I was on the grassy knoll.[/quote]

    Perhaps, but is there not a grain of truth in this quote?

    “He who controls the currency controls the country”. - Keynes.
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    Apr 03, 2008 11:19 AM GMT
    Chewey_Delt saidDo just a little bit of research on the consequences of central banks that are intimately tied with the national governments and you'll see a long history of corruption. Often, the worst central bank policies in any nation come when they are tied into the political structure and vulnerable to the whims of popularly elected officials.

    Democracy does not make everything better. There are some instances in which too much popular input creates negative consequences.


    Your comment on democracy is one of the wisest I have read on RJ. The Japanese government is one which places subtle but substantial pressure on the Bank of Japan.

    In Canada the Bank of Canada is very independent (and I think quite well run).

    My concern with the latest crises is the lack of regulation that seems to permeate the US banking system. I don't think giving the Federal Reserve broader powers is necessarily going to avoid future problems. I am just wondering what the next bubble is going to be.
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    Apr 03, 2008 12:15 PM GMT
    Squarejaw saidIt's not like there are private investors earning profits off the Fed.

    "The Federal Reserve's income is derived primarily from the interest on U.S. government securities that it has acquired through open market operations... After paying its expenses, the Federal Reserve turns the rest of its earnings over to the U.S. Treasury."
    http://www.federalreserve.gov/generalinfo/faq/faqfrs.htm#6


    I admit that I don't know much about the Federal Reserve System. But even if the Federal Reserve doesn't earn profits, it's actions certainly affect the economy and thus present profit making opportunities for private investors. Hence anyone with any insider information re the Federal Reserve's probably course of future action has an increased probability of using that to their advantage relative to a person not privileged with that info. With all the possible effects/consequences of the Fed's actions, it would seem to me to be much more difficult to detect, let alone prove, insider "trading" involving activities remotely connected to banking yet affected by the Fed's actions.
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    Apr 03, 2008 12:51 PM GMT
    I think you need to stop blaming bush for the effects of the credit crisis. A responsible consumer should know what they can and cannot afford. Thousands of people have purchased homes they cannot afford. I don't feel bad for them. I would never invest in a ARM. NEVER.

    Also it is logically correct for the Fed Reserve to be separate from the US gov't. Its another check and balance of our system.
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    Apr 03, 2008 5:17 PM GMT
    Believe me that I have great respect for all of you guys responding, and the voices of reason from squarejaw and richva are necessary to be said, and listened to. I think though that this topic, and in this type of discussion is a great way for me and all of us to learn. Most people have no idea about the forming of or the ongoing processes of the Federal Reserve Bank, I know up until Devildog told me about this several months ago, I actually thought it was a branch of the Federal Government. So keep the info coming.
  • redheaded_dud...

    Posts: 408

    Apr 04, 2008 9:26 AM GMT
    realifedad said Believe me that I have great respect for all of you guys responding, and the voices of reason from squarejaw and richva are necessary to be said, and listened to. I think though that this topic, and in this type of discussion is a great way for me and all of us to learn. Most people have no idea about the forming of or the ongoing processes of the Federal Reserve Bank, I know up until Devildog told me about this several months ago, I actually thought it was a branch of the Federal Government. So keep the info coming.


    This website is interesting, but you might have to read between the lines to find the sinister stuff you seem to enjoy: icon_wink.gifhttp://online.wsj.com/public/us
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    Apr 05, 2008 12:59 AM GMT
    danielryan saidI think you need to stop blaming bush for the effects of the credit crisis. A responsible consumer should know what they can and cannot afford. Thousands of people have purchased homes they cannot afford. I don't feel bad for them. I would never invest in a ARM. NEVER.

    Also it is logically correct for the Fed Reserve to be separate from the US gov't. Its another check and balance of our system.
    I think your right that people should have used a lot more caution about the fine print in the loans they sought, and signed. But as for blaming bush (the administration) there's plenty of room for blaming them, however deregulation of the banking industry came about under Reagan, and got more and more lax in its rules of who they would loan to, and what they'ed accept as collateral. approximately and a half ago, the Chair of the Banking committee approached Bush to work with them to head off this current crises, because they saw it coming in advance. The committee got no response, the committee had realized as did the state administrations that a lot of "PREDATORY" loaning was being done due to a lack of regulating. From what I read the majority of the states approach Bush/the administration to say that if the feds wouldn't regulate then they the state governors were going to. Bush in turn set forth some executive order to stop the states from regulating due to republican mindset that you let the markets alone. This was vehemently apposed by the state Governors, but it made no difference. an interesting sideline is that NY Gov. Spitzer exposed Bush's involvement in this in a Washington post article, just 3 weeks before he was exposed over the Hooker. Be that whatever it is worth, to many decisions in favor of not regulating (not sufficient checks) on the banks and his refusing to step in and get "THE TRAIN HEADED IN THE RIGHT DIRECATION" or even allowing the states too, is a great deal of what led to this fiasco. As for being seperate from the Government may as you say, very well be a good policy, but turning around and giving the ones (the fed) who made this mess more power, without checks on them is kinda like putting the "FOX IN CHARGE OF GUARDING THE HEN HOUSE" if you follow my drift there !!! LOL !!! Thanks Redhead for the site reference !!!