Bisexuality, as hard as homosexuality years ago

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    Apr 24, 2011 1:06 AM GMT
    I know this might be a really difficult subject to approach, but I think it absolutely needs to be. Ever since coming out and reading more as a bisexual guy, I've felt this alarming depression and wondering when it's going to end. Much like 'Prayers for Bobby' described - it's like I'm getting lost in quicksand and there's no way out. I am not alone.

    Years ago homosexuals were afraid to walk down the streets. Many committed suicide, they still do - but back then the rates were higher. They were told they didn't exist. That it was unnatural that a man could ever love another man. I even believe some scientists tried to disprove their existence. They questioned what was wrong with them. What they did wrong.They were even thrown off sports teams, once outed.

    Today? That stigma for homosexuals has noticeably decreased. Bisexuals, however, face that same very problem today. I hate to say this, but it's because both sides are vocally against us. We are the new "out" group. The suicide rate shows that bisexuals are more likely than their gay or lesbian counterparts to end their lives rather than go on living in a world that's openly against us.

    [quote]
    Canadian study, suicide rates:

    34.8% bisexual men
    25.8% gay men
    45.4% bisexual women
    29.5% lesbian

    Okcupid

    65-75% bisexual men
    61-63% gay men
    79-83% bisexual women
    74-80% lesbian women

    http://www.birequest.org/docstore/2011-SF_HRC-Bi_Iinvisibility_Report.pdf

    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_RvWGU1-BPR0/TM9gIng9Z4I/AAAAAAAAABQ/sQxUzbPNW44/s1600/Suicide.png[/quote]

    Staggering reports, no?

    This is mainly because we feel there's no group to go to that will completely support us. Heterosexuals throw the same homophobia that they do towards homosexuals towards us. Homosexuals continue the myth "bi now, gay later" without considering the implications this has, nor if that was the case there'd be "bi now, straight later" since 1/3 of bisexuals start off gay. Scientists are trying to disprove we exist. I even heard of LGBT sports teams that disbarred bisexuals and wouldn't accept "we like both" as an answer. Bisexuality doesn't even appear on google, check it for yourself. We're continually being ignored and shunned. This is the world bisexuals live in.

    Bisexuality isn't a choice. Imagine a world where people are telling you not to act on your instincts of finding a guy attractive or being drawn to him because it's wrong and you have a choice not to. This is the same thing being asked of bi people today. We can't help who we like. Asking us to choose is exactly like asking you to refrain from your natural inclinations.

    How would you like to be told being gay doesn't exist? What would that do to your psyche? That's not around today, granted, just homophobia - but it once was. Because of this many bisexuals start to wonder what's wrong with them. After all we see a lot of people telling us we're wrong, that we don't exist, further disrupting our psyche. The same thing homosexuals once faced.

    Look no further than youtube to see bisexuals getting bashed openly by both gay and straight a like. When bisexuals do try to defend themselves, we're often told we "have it better" than gay people because of our 'heterosexual privilege' - we lose this the second we come out, just like you do. If we actually do have it better: why do bisexuals have a higher suicide rate? Look at those statistics once again.

    Don't take this the wrong way. I'm not saying it isn't hard for homosexuals nor that all are like this. Just today? Being bisexual is actually harder. We face the same homophobia, our heterosexual privilege similarly disappears, and the same problems homosexuals once faced we now face today.

    All I'm asking is to not be treated like a second-rate citizen that "doesn't know better." For many of us that binary kicked in when puberty did. We didn't ask for it. We didn't want it. We just are. The same prosecution homosexuals once faced for being "near invisible" seems to be the same prosecution bisexuals face today.

    Once again - check those stats, up to 75% bisexual men have thought about or have committed suicide, whereas only 63% of gay men have thought about or committed suicide. It seems to be more 'acceptable' among women, but women still face difficulties.

    We're both part of the LGBT community. Please, do your part in ridding the world of biphobia before more lives are lost. I'm well aware that there might be some posters telling me "I'm not real." In which case, all I can say is this is the same line of thinking that led Bill Clayton into taking his life just like Bobby Griffith did. You know what it's like, please don't add to it. The more unified and accepting the community is, the better things can and will become.
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    Apr 24, 2011 1:24 AM GMT
    From what I've seen (on the web) and heard from people, it seems the biggest concern with bisexuals is the idea that they might cheat with another gender. To me, that is absurd...people who are going to cheat, will cheat with whomever they're attracted to, be it a male, female, trans, or man-bear-pig*.

    The 2nd most common thing I've noticed is that people who aren't bi simply don't understand the idea of being attracted to both genders, therefore they think it's unnatural. I don't understand it either; but it's hypocritical to scream for equal rights while leaving out an important part of the "non-straight" community.

    *Personally, I'd rather cheat with man-bear-pig. icon_razz.gif
    manbearpig_126.jpg
  • BIG_N_TALL

    Posts: 2190

    Apr 24, 2011 2:51 AM GMT
    paulflexes saidFrom what I've seen (on the web) and heard from people, it seems the biggest concern with bisexuals is the idea that they might cheat with another gender.


    I think this is a huge issue for gay and straight people alike when it comes bisexuals. From what I have seen, there is this inherent unease - that only augments that 'cheating' factor. Furthermore, the 'boundaries' that come relationships are more blurred.

    If you are gay, it's supposedly easier to be friends with women because there is no substantive sexual attraction; it's not the same with men. It's the opposite for straight men - women are potential romantic/sexual partners, while men are only going to max out as just friends. Expectations are established.

    Bisexual people don't have those sort of concrete relationship boundaries. Men and women are all fair game - the boundaries are blurred to a lesser or greater extent.
  • 2PecanDeBeurr...

    Posts: 302

    Apr 24, 2011 3:05 AM GMT
    I find that being bisexual is a great joy yet a mystery to many except those that are.
    Being able to accept who I am has helped to develop strong self identity and confidence.
    There is no longer any tolerance for intimidation or condescending attitudes.
    I educate those that are misinformed. Stand my ground, MAN UP to any one- family, associates, gay or straight people.
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    Apr 24, 2011 3:22 AM GMT
    Alpha1 said
    paulflexes saidFrom what I've seen (on the web) and heard from people, it seems the biggest concern with bisexuals is the idea that they might cheat with another gender.


    It's the opposite for straight men - women are potential romantic/sexual partners, while men are only going to max out as just friends. Expectations are established.



    Except that isn't true. Even for "straight" men, when a friendship deepens to the "max", physical intimacy often becomes a dimension of the friendship.
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    Apr 24, 2011 3:24 AM GMT
    I myself find it sad that you have a bisexual man who has lived a long straight life, had the wife/wives, bred, then one day it's found out they too like to play with the lads, and get labeled gay. yet they are neither gay or straight, they are bisexuals living the heterosexual lifestyle, just as if and when they are in a gay relasionship, they is still bisexual, and never homosexual.

    I myself as a pure homosexual, one of the real gays who has never been with a women, nor received the benefits/perks for pretending to be a straight married family man. yes their guilt maybe be so overwhelming that they do themselves in. Others no such issues of guilt, they have a right to be lovedicon_twisted.gif

    But many bisexual men look down on homosexual as being dirty, and beneath them; not real men, because they never did the nasty with a women, or to her either.

    The benefits still outweigh those for bisexual men, than us real gays, but we don;t behold so much guilt either, for spending most of our lives promoting there is something wrong with homosexuality.
  • BIG_N_TALL

    Posts: 2190

    Apr 24, 2011 3:27 AM GMT
    Animus said
    Alpha1 said
    paulflexes saidFrom what I've seen (on the web) and heard from people, it seems the biggest concern with bisexuals is the idea that they might cheat with another gender.


    It's the opposite for straight men - women are potential romantic/sexual partners, while men are only going to max out as just friends. Expectations are established.



    Except that isn't true. Even for "straight" men, when a friendship deepens to the "max", physical intimacy often becomes a dimension of the friendship.


    I am talking in context of 'public image.' "Straight" guys would never admit to it.

    Furthermore, it even calls into question whether they are "straight" in the first place. If you really want to get technical, "straight" men don't have sexual/intimate encounters with other men, only women. So, straight guys would never have sexual encounters with other men if they were really straight. Logically speaking, if they had the inclination to have physical intimacy with their male friends, they would considered to be bisexual more so than straight.
    .
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    Apr 24, 2011 3:33 AM GMT
    I identify as bi, and I used to hide it with the fear that if someone I was into found out, (be it a guy or girl) it would make them less likely to want to sustain a committed relationship with me. After years of extensive soul searching, I no longer care because whomever I'm with will have to accept everything about me, whether it's good or bad; if they can't accept who I am, hey, I'm young, I'll find someone else. Having come out, never before have I felt so free to be myself. Not only that, girls seem to think it's hot (some of them, anyway!) And I tend to still attract the guys I want, with a rare few being turned off by it.

    Ian, as a bisexual, you will find yourself walking in both worlds if one can be that polarizing but belonging to neither. The bottom line, I'm happy. I don't care. I'm going to continue being happy whether it's with a girl, or with a guy! And I wouldn't be on here if I didn't want to be with a guy.
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    Apr 24, 2011 3:47 AM GMT
    Alpha1 said
    Animus said
    Alpha1 said
    paulflexes saidFrom what I've seen (on the web) and heard from people, it seems the biggest concern with bisexuals is the idea that they might cheat with another gender.


    It's the opposite for straight men - women are potential romantic/sexual partners, while men are only going to max out as just friends. Expectations are established.



    Except that isn't true. Even for "straight" men, when a friendship deepens to the "max", physical intimacy often becomes a dimension of the friendship.


    I am talking in context of 'public image.' "Straight" guys would never admit to it.
    In the context of "public image," neither gay nor straight is going to admit when he or she cheats...regardless of which gender is cheated with.
  • BIG_N_TALL

    Posts: 2190

    Apr 24, 2011 3:49 AM GMT
    paulflexes said
    Alpha1 said
    Animus said
    Alpha1 said
    paulflexes saidFrom what I've seen (on the web) and heard from people, it seems the biggest concern with bisexuals is the idea that they might cheat with another gender.


    It's the opposite for straight men - women are potential romantic/sexual partners, while men are only going to max out as just friends. Expectations are established.



    Except that isn't true. Even for "straight" men, when a friendship deepens to the "max", physical intimacy often becomes a dimension of the friendship.


    I am talking in context of 'public image.' "Straight" guys would never admit to it.
    In the context of "public image," neither gay nor straight is going to admit when he or she cheats...regardless of which gender is cheated with.


    I was talking about sexual orientation association/affiliation.
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    Apr 24, 2011 3:50 AM GMT
    Alpha1 said
    Animus said
    Alpha1 said
    paulflexes saidFrom what I've seen (on the web) and heard from people, it seems the biggest concern with bisexuals is the idea that they might cheat with another gender.


    It's the opposite for straight men - women are potential romantic/sexual partners, while men are only going to max out as just friends. Expectations are established.



    Except that isn't true. Even for "straight" men, when a friendship deepens to the "max", physical intimacy often becomes a dimension of the friendship.


    I am talking in context of 'public image.' "Straight" guys would never admit to it.

    Furthermore, it even calls into question whether they are "straight" in the first place. If you really want to get technical, "straight" men don't have sexual/intimate encounters with other men, only women. So, straight guys would never have sexual encounters with other men if they were really straight. Logically speaking, if they had the inclination to have physical intimacy with their male friends, they would considered to be bisexual more so than straight.
    .


    Yeah, but that's the issue. Straight guys won't admit it in public but most "straight" guys do have an inclination to have physical intimacy with their closest of friends. Physical intimacy/bonding is the last natural stepping stone in bonding between men.

    EDIT: Truly straight guys are a rarity but most guys call themselves straight anyway because of the public stigma associated with same-sex attractions.
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    Apr 24, 2011 3:52 AM GMT
    To the OP, if a person is predisposed to cheat, they're going to do so regardless of their sexual inclinations.
  • BIG_N_TALL

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    Apr 24, 2011 3:53 AM GMT
    Animus said
    Alpha1 said
    Animus said
    Alpha1 said
    paulflexes saidFrom what I've seen (on the web) and heard from people, it seems the biggest concern with bisexuals is the idea that they might cheat with another gender.


    It's the opposite for straight men - women are potential romantic/sexual partners, while men are only going to max out as just friends. Expectations are established.



    Except that isn't true. Even for "straight" men, when a friendship deepens to the "max", physical intimacy often becomes a dimension of the friendship.


    I am talking in context of 'public image.' "Straight" guys would never admit to it.

    Furthermore, it even calls into question whether they are "straight" in the first place. If you really want to get technical, "straight" men don't have sexual/intimate encounters with other men, only women. So, straight guys would never have sexual encounters with other men if they were really straight. Logically speaking, if they had the inclination to have physical intimacy with their male friends, they would considered to be bisexual more so than straight.
    .



    Yeah, but that's the issue. Straight guys won't admit it in public but most "straight" guys do have an inclination to have physical intimacy with their closest of friends. Physical intimacy/bonding is the last natural stepping stone in bonding between men.

    EDIT: Truly straight guys are a rarity but most guys call themselves straight anyway because of the public stigma associated with same-sex attractions.


    Point made. The same applies for "gay" men as well. There are more bisexuals out in the world than strictly homosexual and strictly heterosexual people combined. It's all a matter of whether people want to admit it or not.
  • awm55

    Posts: 619

    Apr 24, 2011 4:01 AM GMT
    I dated a bi-guy and I would never do it again. He claimed he was gay but thinks getting drunk at a house party and licking out a girl is something all gay men do icon_rolleyes.gif

    It was not a nice feeling having his past female sexual partners around because they are good friends, and yes the thought of him cheating on me with the opposite sex (he didn't) is not a nice feeling.

    Knowing that when he gets drunk he would sleep with everything in the room is not something I would ever put myself through again. Not to put down bi-sexuals, but they have to realize why so many people are not OK with it. The boundaries between their relationships with both sexes are blurred and it can be difficult for their partner.
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    Apr 24, 2011 4:03 AM GMT
    Alpha1 said
    Animus saidYeah, but that's the issue. Straight guys won't admit it in public but most "straight" guys do have an inclination to have physical intimacy with their closest of friends. Physical intimacy/bonding is the last natural stepping stone in bonding between men.

    EDIT: Truly straight guys are a rarity but most guys call themselves straight anyway because of the public stigma associated with same-sex attractions.


    Point made. The same applies for "gay" men as well. There are more bisexuals out in the world than strictly homosexual and strictly heterosexual people combined. It's all a matter of whether people want to admit it or not.
    Latent point made: This is exactly why "publicly open" bisexuals should not be looked down on by anyone. However, I have a rather firm belief that the men who state "homosexuality is a choice" are just discreetly admitting they're bisexual.
  • awm55

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    Apr 24, 2011 4:06 AM GMT
    Animus said
    Alpha1 said
    Animus said
    Alpha1 said
    paulflexes saidFrom what I've seen (on the web) and heard from people, it seems the biggest concern with bisexuals is the idea that they might cheat with another gender.


    It's the opposite for straight men - women are potential romantic/sexual partners, while men are only going to max out as just friends. Expectations are established.



    Except that isn't true. Even for "straight" men, when a friendship deepens to the "max", physical intimacy often becomes a dimension of the friendship.


    I am talking in context of 'public image.' "Straight" guys would never admit to it.

    Furthermore, it even calls into question whether they are "straight" in the first place. If you really want to get technical, "straight" men don't have sexual/intimate encounters with other men, only women. So, straight guys would never have sexual encounters with other men if they were really straight. Logically speaking, if they had the inclination to have physical intimacy with their male friends, they would considered to be bisexual more so than straight.
    .


    Yeah, but that's the issue. Straight guys won't admit it in public but most "straight" guys do have an inclination to have physical intimacy with their closest of friends. Physical intimacy/bonding is the last natural stepping stone in bonding between men.

    EDIT: Truly straight guys are a rarity but most guys call themselves straight anyway because of the public stigma associated with same-sex attractions.


    This is bull, there is a difference between physical intimacy (hugging) and sexual intimacy (oral sex, etc). The former does not make you bi-sexual, the latter definitely does. If you think most straight men have at one time or another wanted to suck off their buddy I think you are kidding yourself.
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    Apr 24, 2011 4:08 AM GMT
    awm55 saidThis is bull, there is a difference between physical intimacy (hugging) and sexual intimacy (oral sex, etc). The former does not make you bi-sexual, the latter definitely does. If you think most straight men have at one time or another wanted to suck off their buddy I think you are kidding yourself.
    Sexual intimacy can also be mutual masturbation, which MANY guys do once they reach a certain level of friendship. I've stated this on here before - people refuse to believe it - but I've experienced it more times than I care to count. icon_wink.gif
  • awm55

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    Apr 24, 2011 4:14 AM GMT
    paulflexes said
    awm55 saidThis is bull, there is a difference between physical intimacy (hugging) and sexual intimacy (oral sex, etc). The former does not make you bi-sexual, the latter definitely does. If you think most straight men have at one time or another wanted to suck off their buddy I think you are kidding yourself.
    Sexual intimacy can also be mutual masturbation, which MANY guys do once they reach a certain level of friendship. I've stated this on here before - people refuse to believe it - but I've experienced it more times than I care to count. icon_wink.gif


    Maybe when they are going through puberty (12-15), but adult men? No way in hell do tons of adult men jerk off with their close male friends. I have very liberal open minded male friends (hell they even kiss each other in a laddish joking way), but I have discussed this sort of thing with them and they all said men simply do not arouse them in a sexual way.

    And you do realize that this would be no different than a gay man doing something sexual with their close female friends. I really don't think most gay men do.
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    Apr 24, 2011 4:16 AM GMT
    awm55 saidMaybe when they are going through puberty (12-15), but adult men? No way in hell do tons of adult men jerk off with their close male friends. I have very liberal open minded male friends (hell they even kiss each other in a laddish joking way), but I have discussed this sort of thing with them and they all said men simply do not arouse them in a sexual way.

    And you do realize that this would be no different than a gay man doing something sexual with their close female friends. I really don't think most gay men do.
    Well duh!!! Sexual intimacy among "straight" men is like Flight Club...you know the rest. icon_wink.gif
  • awm55

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    Apr 24, 2011 4:21 AM GMT
    paulflexes said
    awm55 saidMaybe when they are going through puberty (12-15), but adult men? No way in hell do tons of adult men jerk off with their close male friends. I have very liberal open minded male friends (hell they even kiss each other in a laddish joking way), but I have discussed this sort of thing with them and they all said men simply do not arouse them in a sexual way.

    And you do realize that this would be no different than a gay man doing something sexual with their close female friends. I really don't think most gay men do.
    Well duh!!! Sexual intimacy among "straight" men is like Flight Club...you know the rest. icon_wink.gif


    I am still dubious, not that I don't want to believe it. I am just being realistic icon_biggrin.gif
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    Apr 24, 2011 4:21 AM GMT
    Animus said, "Straight guys won't admit it in public but most "straight" guys do have an inclination to have physical intimacy with their closest of friends. Physical intimacy/bonding is the last natural stepping stone in bonding between men. "


    No.

    Way.

    (on behalf of a lot of straights that I know. This is one of the things they dislike, the implication, however vague, that simple physical expressions of affections between men carries into something sexual and/or romantic.)

    -Doug

  • awm55

    Posts: 619

    Apr 24, 2011 4:26 AM GMT
    meninlove said Animus said, "Straight guys won't admit it in public but most "straight" guys do have an inclination to have physical intimacy with their closest of friends. Physical intimacy/bonding is the last natural stepping stone in bonding between men. "


    No.

    Way.

    (on behalf of a lot of straights that I know. This is one of the things they dislike, the implication, however vague, that simple physical expressions of affections between men carries into something sexual and/or romantic.)

    -Doug



    Exactly, its this line of thinking that prevents men from becoming more intimate in a non sexual way.
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    Apr 24, 2011 4:32 AM GMT
    awm55 said
    meninlove said Animus said, "Straight guys won't admit it in public but most "straight" guys do have an inclination to have physical intimacy with their closest of friends. Physical intimacy/bonding is the last natural stepping stone in bonding between men. "


    No.

    Way.

    (on behalf of a lot of straights that I know. This is one of the things they dislike, the implication, however vague, that simple physical expressions of affections between men carries into something sexual and/or romantic.)

    -Doug



    Exactly, its this line of thinking that prevents men from becoming more intimate in a non sexual way.


    lol, well awm, though we disagree on just about everything else, I'm with you. icon_wink.gif

    My background is Jamaican; the straight men are very touchy with each other, but the mere suggestion of anything else insults their integrity to express without an examination of their sexuality.

    lol, did that make sense?

    -Doug

  • awm55

    Posts: 619

    Apr 24, 2011 4:37 AM GMT
    meninlove said
    awm55 said
    meninlove said Animus said, "Straight guys won't admit it in public but most "straight" guys do have an inclination to have physical intimacy with their closest of friends. Physical intimacy/bonding is the last natural stepping stone in bonding between men. "


    No.

    Way.

    (on behalf of a lot of straights that I know. This is one of the things they dislike, the implication, however vague, that simple physical expressions of affections between men carries into something sexual and/or romantic.)

    -Doug



    Exactly, its this line of thinking that prevents men from becoming more intimate in a non sexual way.


    lol, well awm, though we disagree on just about everything else, I'm with you. icon_wink.gif

    My background is Jamaican; the straight men are very touchy with each other, but the mere suggestion of anything else insults their integrity to express without an examination of their sexuality.

    lol, did that make sense?

    -Doug



    American men tend to be very wary of appearing in any way feminine by hugging their buddy etc. In London it is common for straight men to dance together, hug each other, and even kiss in a joking way. There are no sexual connotations to this, and for gay men to use this sort of behavior as an example of how most men are at least somewhat bi prevents straight men from being intimate in a non sexual way.
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    Apr 24, 2011 4:45 AM GMT


    This is good stuff, Awm. We want them to accept us (gay men), so shouldn't we be doing the same?

    "American men tend to be very wary of appearing in any way feminine by hugging their buddy etc. In London it is common for straight men to dance together, hug each other, and even kiss in a joking way. There are no sexual connotations to this, and for gay men to use this sort of behavior as an example of how most men are at least somewhat bi prevents straight men from being intimate in a non sexual way."


    This is a little off topic but an example: Suppose there was a group of people that thought you kissing Mom might have something sexual or romantically intimate about it? Or your Grannie for that matter? How well would you cotton to them?

    Thanks for understanding from my straights pals. And me. I don't want them to think I'm reading stuff into their expressions of affection.

    lol, imagine two sisters kissing each other and spectators suggesting something more. Ugh.