Political Reality

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 05, 2011 2:25 AM GMT
    http://people-press.org/2011/05/04/beyond-red-vs-blue-the-political-typology/

    I debated posting this because, well, the diatribe found on RealJock is not representative of reality. Like every other RealJock post, the usual suspects will show up, chime in with their extreme party lines, and attempt the same tired arguments they always do. George W. Bush tried for war crimes? Seriously? Attend a U.S. Government or Civics class for once in your life. Please.

    This article breaks down party ideology into 9 different subgroups. Myself - having 2 Master's Degrees, 20+ years working for the government, living on 4 separate continents, make 6-figures, being socially "liberal", fiscally "conservative", and a Classical Realist - fall between the "Post-Modern" and "Libertarian" spectrums (which, as I already knew, makes me "Independent."

    I'm pro-choice, pro-stem-cell research, and pro DADT and DOMA repeal. Plus an atheist. Try and make the argument I'm a "tea partier."

    However, since the vast majority of political yappers on this site fall squarely into the "Solid Liberal" group, they consider anybody to the right of them (meaning all other 7 subgroups to the right of them) to be Republicans.

    God knows if you espouse any disparaging remark against Obama (unless it's that he's not liberal enough), Obamacare, unions, climate change, etc etc - you'll quickly be labeled by the usual peanut gallery to be a Republican (in some case, even a "Republican Plant" - obviously here to infiltrate the forums and spread hate and dissension).

    Kids, if you think I'm a Republican, than you've obviously never met one.

    Disagree with my views. Make a valid argument. It's all good. But to just try and end a discussion giving people a "Republican" label because they (and incidentally, the majority of the U.S. population) are to the right of you is just lazy.

    Take a look at the article and see where you fall. And be honest. icon_smile.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 05, 2011 2:37 AM GMT
    http://people-press.org/2011/05/04/beyond-red-vs-blue-the-political-typology/
    If you highlight the address and click URL button, it will become a live link. I am in a similar part of the spectrum as you, although I am highly critical of this administration's domestic and foreign policies. You are correct - I am labeled a far right-winger and Republican, even though I have voted Democratic for specific House and Senate candidates prior to 2010. I have also been called a plant and told my playbook did not prepare me for some of the real brilliant minds among the solid liberals on RJ.

    Might also note I don't know what the numbers are, but I think there are many moderates who support the tea party movement because they want smaller government, less spending, and deficit reduction.
  • creature

    Posts: 5197

    May 05, 2011 2:46 AM GMT
    Is there a reason why you're typecasting tea partiers?

    Here you are telling people not to tag anyone as simply a "Republican," yet you're suggesting a member of the Tea Party cannot be pro-choice, pro-stem cell research, pro DADT repeal, pro DOMA repeal and/or an atheist.

    Equally of note is your lack of condemnation against the"political yappers" who are conservative that identify those who are presumed to be "solid liberals" as democrats.

    And referring to us as kids? This thread has failed from the start.
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    May 05, 2011 2:55 AM GMT
    creature saidAnd referring to us as kids? This thread has failed from the start.

    Although I cannot speak for the OP, I think the ones referred to as kids are the ones who act like kids, the small vocal group e.g typing BS to anything they don't agree with, making personal attacks, and the like, certainly not all of the more liberal RJ members.
  • creature

    Posts: 5197

    May 05, 2011 3:04 AM GMT
    socalfitness said
    creature saidAnd referring to us as kids? This thread has failed from the start.

    Although I cannot speak for the OP, I think the ones referred to as kids are the ones who act like kids, the small vocal group e.g typing BS to anything they don't agree with, making personal attacks, and the like, certainly not all of the more liberal RJ members.


    As I read it, he's addressing the "solid liberals." Seems like you read a little too much into it. But that's my assumption.

    His presumptuous, politically-biased (which causes it to fail to achieve its goal), and condescending post makes it a fail from the start.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 05, 2011 3:28 AM GMT
    ArmyJock is about more or less where I fall.

    I lime a lot if what the Tea Party (not all of it though) has to offer.

    And I am a far cry from either the typical Democrat... or the typical Republican.

    But I must admit that seeing how easily some far lefty liberal types here get all bunhedmup in their knickers when someone disagrees with The Official (far left liberal Democratic) Party Gospel... many LULZ can be had.

    ;)
  • creature

    Posts: 5197

    May 05, 2011 3:34 AM GMT
    alphatrigger saidArmyJock is about more or less where I fall.

    I lime a lot if what the Tea Party (not all of it though) has to offer.

    And I am a far cry from either the typical Democrat... or the typical Republican.

    But I must admit that seeing how easily some far lefty liberal types here get all bunhedmup in their knickers when someone disagrees with The Official (far left liberal Democratic) Party Gospel... many LULZ can be had.

    ;)


    That's just lazy of you ;)
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 05, 2011 3:50 AM GMT
    alphatrigger saidArmyJock is about more or less where I fall.

    I lime a lot if what the Tea Party (not all of it though) has to offer.

    And I am a far cry from either the typical Democrat... or the typical Republican.

    But I must admit that seeing how easily some far lefty liberal types here get all bunhedmup in their knickers when someone disagrees with The Official (far left liberal Democratic) Party Gospel... many LULZ can be had.

    ;)


    The American Democratic Party, including Obama is center-right politically. The Republican Party in the US has been hijacked by an extreme lunatic fringe, which in some ways is apolitical, in the sense that they are concerned only with power and not with moving forward an agenda that is either ideologically coherent or in the best interest of the country. Just look at how quickly the Republican Party and it's spokespeople are claiming bin Laden isn't really dead, questioning the legality of his death, and not once questioning why in 7 years the Bush administration didn't manage to do the same.

    I personally don't give a shit what people call themselves. I judge by positions on policies and ideology. icon_rolleyes.gif
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    May 05, 2011 4:04 AM GMT
    Christian73 saidThe American Democratic Party, including Obama is center-right politically.


    From a global point of view, and in particular the Western Nations (which tend to be social democratic on the average, and therefore considerably further left of the USA, this is true.

    For most American readers, and in our general consensus - the Democratic Party is center left, with the mainstream GOP at center right with a good degree of overlap (RINOs/DINOs).

    Decidedly to the Right are the Constitution Party and various other minor third parties, as are the Socialist Party USA and the Democratic Socialists
    of America (DSA) fall decidedly to the Left.

    Tea Partiers typically scatter to the right, and pull into their orbit some libertarians, tax protesters, and even some ex-hippies and paleo-conservatives ... and no small number of undeclared/unregistered independents folks like myself ;)
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19119

    May 05, 2011 4:22 AM GMT
    Christian73 saidThe Republican Party in the US has been hijacked by an extreme lunatic fringe, which in some ways is apolitical, in the sense that they are concerned only with power and not with moving forward an agenda that is either ideologically coherent or in the best interest of the country.



    No, Christian, this is YOUR opinion only. There are many Republicans that do not fall into this "fringe" you're always harping on.
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    May 05, 2011 4:27 AM GMT
    Interesting. I don't think the grouping breaks down enough - I'd also categorize myself as being somewhere between Post-Modern and LIbertarian - socially liberal, fiscally conservative, pro-choice, pro-stem-cell research, and pro DADT and DOMA repeal sound about right. Unlike 09ARMYJOCK and alphatrigger, though, I feel definitely closer to Post-Modern, and I have about -0- patience with the Tea Party stuff. In RJ terms, I align mostly with the libs, which means that the cons piss me off much, much worse. icon_wink.gif
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    May 05, 2011 4:31 AM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said

    No, Christian, this is YOUR opinion only. There are many Republicans that do not fall into this "fringe" you're always harping on.


    Howdy, CJAZ. Speaking of opinions, I would say that many is more like some, and those some are complicit in tolerating a fringe that would (in the case of gay Republicans) destroy them if it could. I obviously don't get it.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19119

    May 05, 2011 5:14 AM GMT
    showme said
    CuriousJockAZ said

    No, Christian, this is YOUR opinion only. There are many Republicans that do not fall into this "fringe" you're always harping on.


    Howdy, CJAZ. Speaking of opinions, I would say that many is more like some, and those some are complicit in tolerating a fringe that would (in the case of gay Republicans) destroy them if it could. I obviously don't get it.



    I know that "fringe" exists, but they don't have near the power or influence that some here give them credit for. This idea that the Republicans are the gay man's "Boogey Man" is a mindset that I simply do not subscribe to. Those that do want to believe that, well, good luck with that.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19119

    May 05, 2011 5:21 AM GMT
    jprichva said
    CuriousJockAZ saidI know that "fringe" exists, but they don't have near the power or influence that some here give them credit for. This idea that the Republicans are the gay man's "Boogey Man" is a mindset that I simply do not subscribe to. Those that do want to believe that, well, good luck with that.

    The sad part of this is that what you say actually used to be true, long ago.
    What you will not recognize is that your party has changed dramatically, and most likely permanently.



    A) Not MY party -- I am an independent. I wish everyone was

    B) Nothing is permanent
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    May 05, 2011 9:06 AM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    showme said
    CuriousJockAZ said

    No, Christian, this is YOUR opinion only. There are many Republicans that do not fall into this "fringe" you're always harping on.


    Howdy, CJAZ. Speaking of opinions, I would say that many is more like some, and those some are complicit in tolerating a fringe that would (in the case of gay Republicans) destroy them if it could. I obviously don't get it.



    I know that "fringe" exists, but they don't have near the power or influence that some here give them credit for. This idea that the Republicans are the gay man's "Boogey Man" is a mindset that I simply do not subscribe to. Those that do want to believe that, well, good luck with that.


    As others have noted, the "fringe" does indeed exert enormous power over the Republican Party. You can choose not to see that but by every objective measure the party has moved substantially to the right.

    In reference to the bolded part of your post, my gripes with the Republican Party are not (just) grounded in their ongoing assaults on gay rights. In fact, what I find most objectionable about them are their economic policies and right behind that their tolerance - despite claims of libertarians - for things like the PATRIOT Act, airport "security" and other attacks on our civil liberties. Gay rights and women's rights come shortly behind those.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    May 05, 2011 10:33 AM GMT
    Political Reality

    The Roberts Supreme Court allowed Corporate funneling of campaign money that has inflated campaigns and put them up for sale even more than they were before

    Political Reality

    Tea Bag funding and most of their events were started and funded by Right Wing corporate shills
    See def Astroturf

    Billionaires and corporations are capturing the political process everywhere; anyone with an interest in democracy should be thinking about how to resist them. Nothing is real any more. Nothing is as it seems.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/oct/25/tea-party-koch-brothers

    Political Reality
    The republicans who took over the House last November based their entire campaigns on jobs jobs jobs
    and have not created one one one .... job job job
    What they have done is go on a screed of writing anti-abortion laws

    Political Reality

    Instead of working on economic reform and discussing what needs to be done in America the republican -tea party has been delving into conspiracy theories
    Birth Certificates ???? REALLY?

    You can say that you're not the typical republican or that you don't agree with certain things that they say
    But That's the POLITICAL REALITY of your party
    and unless you're a corporate interest with LOT'S of money or a rabid anti-abortion nut job you're off the radar screen as a republican
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 05, 2011 1:19 PM GMT
    Unfortunately, I 'attempted' to take the test.

    It is way too restrictive on some questions. When one is smack in the middle it says "choose the one closest to your answer".<--- impossible. When neither is 'right' neither is 'close'!

    I will refrain.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 05, 2011 1:21 PM GMT
    The original post seems like a series of contradictions to me.

    1) The OP seems to say read my post and give me your honest opinion but prefaces it by insulting the RJ posters as "yappers" and "kids" and "peanut gallery."

    2) The OP doesn't want to be painted into a box by being called "Republican" but wants posters to place themselves into a box by reading the article and placing themselves into one of a series of restrictive categories.

    3) Calls the diatribe on RJ not representative of reality but doesn't acknowledge that virtually everyone on here is bi/gay and male and that demographic is not representative of reality.

    JMHO. Like another poster mentioned, this thread failed from the start.

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    May 05, 2011 1:43 PM GMT
    09ARMYJOCK saidhttp://people-press.org/2011/05/04/beyond-red-vs-blue-the-political-typology/

    I debated posting this because, well, the diatribe found on RealJock is not representative of reality. Like every other RealJock post, the usual suspects will show up, chime in with their extreme party lines, and attempt the same tired arguments they always do. George W. Bush tried for war crimes? Seriously? Attend a U.S. Government or Civics class for once in your life. Please.

    This article breaks down party ideology into 9 different subgroups. Myself - having 2 Master's Degrees, 20+ years working for the government, living on 4 separate continents, make 6-figures, being socially "liberal", fiscally "conservative", and a Classical Realist Really? try reading what I highlight in your post in green! - fall between the "Post-Modern" and "Libertarian" spectrums (which, as I already knew, makes me "Independent."

    I'm pro-choice, pro-stem-cell research, and pro DADT and DOMA repeal. Plus an atheist. Try and make the argument I'm a "tea partier."

    However, since the vast majority of political yappers on this site fall squarely into the "Solid Liberal" group, they consider anybody to the right of them (meaning all other 7 subgroups to the right of them) to be Republicans.

    God knows if you espouse any disparaging remark against Obama (unless it's that he's not liberal enough), Obamacare, unions, climate change, etc etc - you'll quickly be labeled by the usual peanut gallery to be a Republican (in some case, even a "Republican Plant" - obviously here to infiltrate the forums and spread hate and dissension).

    Kids, if you think I'm a Republican, than you've obviously never met one.

    Disagree with my views. Make a valid argument. I just did. It's all good. But to just try and end a discussion giving people a "Republican" label because they (and incidentally, the majority of the U.S. population) are to the right of you is just lazy.

    Take a look at the article and see where you fall. And be honest. icon_smile.gif
    How about you being honest??? Lets talk about conspiracy theories..icon_wink.gif
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    May 05, 2011 1:50 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 saidYou've awakend the hens... here they come.....

    Yep, you are here.. didnt take long for you to start your pecking!
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    May 05, 2011 1:51 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    Christian73 said
    The American Democratic Party, including Obama is center-right politically...


    ... when using Soviet-style communism as the reference point of what is the center.
    Hey OP!!! start with this guy.. start another diatribe ok?

    Now be honest!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 05, 2011 2:53 PM GMT


    SB =

    coulter_ann.jpg


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    May 05, 2011 4:25 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    Christian73 said
    The American Democratic Party, including Obama is center-right politically...


    ... when using Soviet-style communism as the reference point of what is the center.


    No. You don't get to redefine the English language and 400 years of political theory because you're a right-wing extremist. icon_rolleyes.gif
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    May 05, 2011 10:21 PM GMT

    Political Reality

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    May 05, 2011 11:07 PM GMT
    GQjock said
    Political Reality

    and reality bites HARD!