Growing Republican Opposition to a Minnesota Marriage Amendment

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    May 09, 2011 1:21 AM GMT
    http://volokh.com/2011/05/08/republican-opposition-to-a-minnesota-marriage-amendment/

    The GOP sweep in Minnesota last fall was a mile wide and an inch deep. A switch of a few hundred votes in a few key districts would have left the house and senate in Democratic hands. Republicans won on promises to balance the budget, limit taxes and spending, and make the state more business-friendly. Social issues were almost totally absent from the campaign. Nevertheless, a constitutional amendment excluding gay couples and their families from marriage has been making its way quickly through the Minnesota legislature. If approved, it would go on the ballot in November 2012 in a popular referendum, where it would have to get a majority of all votes cast in a high turnout year. It had seemed the amendment would sail through the state legislature. But now it faces rising Republican opposition.

    The GOP objectors publicly known so far include a state senator who voted in committee to table the amendment on Friday. Last year, she called an anti-gay marriage amendment “a sword to hurt people, to identify people as different and create disparities.”

    Also opposed is a GOP house member, who lost his legs in Iraq. He has publicly said that he “learned the hard way” that you only live once and it’s important to find someone you love. He called the proposed amendment “just wrong,” and declared, “There is not anything that can move me on this.” Apparently, if you’ve faced death in combat, the prospect of a primary opponent doesn’t intimidate you.
    Other Republican legislators have questioned the need to constitionalize the issue. At the very least, there is considerable doubt about pushing it right now in the middle of a budget battle with the Democratic governor — it’s a distraction from the party’s core message and agenda. The amendment could be taken up next year and still appear on the 2012 ballot.

    In this morning’s Minneapolis Star-Tribune, former Bush White House Counsel and a colleague of mine, Richard Painter, makes the Republican case against a proposed amendment banning same-sex marriage. Painter opposes the amendment as a matter of principle, good politics, and business


    More here: http://www.startribune.com/opinion/otherviews/121416574.html - a Republican argument against a marriage amendment.
  • creature

    Posts: 5197

    May 09, 2011 1:47 AM GMT
    And what should we glean from this story?

    This is not Minnesota Republicans pushing legislation to make gay marriage legal in the state.This article is about how some of them don't see the need to do this as an amendment since Minnesota already recognizes marriage as only between a man and a woman.

    If a Democratic representative proposes an equal marriage bill, let's see how they vote.
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    May 09, 2011 2:10 AM GMT
    got to give a few of em kudos for getting smarter.. maybe the rest will eventually learn. One can only hope or fire em.
  • squash4dave

    Posts: 180

    May 09, 2011 5:58 AM GMT
    I doubt that they will get any "smarter". The base is so far right, or should I say wrong, that they seem incapable change. And with Tea Party members at their heels, they probably feel that they can't change, without being opposed in a knock down, drag (no pun intended) out primary fight.
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    May 09, 2011 7:02 AM GMT
    I rallied at the state capitol about a month ago, and amid the cold and some snow, one of the members of the senate spoke, where she said that her colleague- a republican (whom remained nameless at the time) discussed the issue with his/her children, and after hesitating, they came clean and flat out said that they didn't have an issue with gay marriage. So said state congressman is (or was) thinking about the issue.

    These congresspeople are truly coming around, but the only people who showed up at the rally this year were basically DFL politicians such as Phyllis Kahn, RT Rybak, Governor Dayton, Ryan Winkler, and others.
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    May 09, 2011 7:45 AM GMT
    Bullwinklemoos saidI rallied at the state capitol about a month ago, and amid the cold and some snow, one of the members of the senate spoke, where she said that her colleague- a republican (whom remained nameless at the time) discussed the issue with his/her children, and after hesitating, they came clean and flat out said that they didn't have an issue with gay marriage. So said state congressman is (or was) thinking about the issue.


    "thinking"....? icon_lol.gif And the check's in the mail, I love you, and I won't cum in your mouth.
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    May 09, 2011 7:59 AM GMT
    turbobilly said
    Bullwinklemoos saidI rallied at the state capitol about a month ago, and amid the cold and some snow, one of the members of the senate spoke, where she said that her colleague- a republican (whom remained nameless at the time) discussed the issue with his/her children, and after hesitating, they came clean and flat out said that they didn't have an issue with gay marriage. So said state congressman is (or was) thinking about the issue.


    "thinking"....? icon_lol.gif And the check's in the mail, I love you, and I won't cum in your mouth.


    Don't forget that you'll miss your flight with the mile high club. icon_wink.gif
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    May 09, 2011 11:20 AM GMT
    No
    It took a Democrat to ... embarrass the hell out of them
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    May 09, 2011 7:11 PM GMT
    GQjock saidNo
    It took a Democrat to ... embarrass the hell out of them


    A big + 1 and this guy, a democrat I assume, got all the way through his well reasoned argument without histrionics or calling anyone a racist or bigot. See, it can be done.
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    May 09, 2011 7:16 PM GMT
    Of course it can be done. Then again, he wasn't speaking to you.
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    May 09, 2011 7:34 PM GMT
    GQjock saidNo
    It took a Democrat to ... embarrass the hell out of them


    Well then he has never had a deep conversation with our half brothers the bisexuals now has he, about all their confusion regarding their sexuality, because they don't promotes sexuality is innate, they make it look more like a choice. Where us real gays do not endure the confusion of our half brothers, for us our sexuality is innate.
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    May 09, 2011 7:50 PM GMT
    OneGeezer said
    A big + 1 and this guy, a democrat I assume, got all the way through his well reasoned argue without histrionics or calling anyone a racist or bigot. See, it can be done.


    Some people need to be educated and the best way is to bring them along, gently and persuasively.
    Some should know better and need to be smacked around, metaphorically speaking.
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    May 09, 2011 7:52 PM GMT
    True_blue_aussie said
    Well then he has never had a deep conversation with our half brothers the bisexuals now has he, about all their confusion regarding their sexuality, because they don't promotes sexuality is innate, they make it look more like a choice. Where us real gays do not endure the confusion of our half brothers, for us our sexuality is innate.


    The confusion is not in the bisexuals, who have an innate attraction to both men and women, but who just can choose how to express their sexual and affectational desire at any given point in time. They don't have a choice as to what is innate, just how they express it.
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    May 09, 2011 7:58 PM GMT
    showme said
    OneGeezer said
    A big + 1 and this guy, a democrat I assume, got all the way through his well reasoned argue without histrionics or calling anyone a racist or bigot. See, it can be done.


    Some people need to be educated and the best way is to bring them along, gently and persuasively.

    This is my style, from deep within the Republican Party and conservative organizations such as the NRA.

    This guy has exactly the correct tack. He makes folks think instead of screaming in their face. He fights for reason with reason.


    Some should know better and need to be smacked around, metaphorically speaking.


    Don't think that works so well and certainly not with me.
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    May 09, 2011 8:00 PM GMT
    meninlove said Of course it can be done. Then again, he wasn't speaking to you.


    As I've said before: fight for reason with reason.
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    May 09, 2011 10:23 PM GMT
    OneGeezer said
    GQjock saidNo
    It took a Democrat to ... embarrass the hell out of them


    A big + 1 and this guy, a democrat I assume, got all the way through his well reasoned argument without histrionics or calling anyone a racist or bigot. See, it can be done.
    It is interesting to note for everyone here that you voted in California to apply the denial of marriage to SS people.. and you have the audacity to post what you just did?

    Here! I'll even post it!
    OneGeezer saidThe hate and vitriol of the fascist left, courtesy of folks just like Chrissy and to a slightly lesser extent, RealLifeMom is the reason that I voted YES on prop 8. Thankfully, these folks can’t procreate.

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    May 09, 2011 10:27 PM GMT
    OneGeezer said

    This guy has exactly the correct tack. He makes folks think instead of screaming in their face. He fights for reason with reason.

    Some should know better and need to be smacked around, metaphorically speaking.
    Don't think that works so well and certainly not with me.


    LOL and this is 'your' thinking process?
    OneGeezer saidThe hate and vitriol of the fascist left, courtesy of folks just like Chrissy and to a slightly lesser extent, RealLifeMom is the reason that I voted YES on prop 8. Thankfully, these folks can’t procreate.

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    May 09, 2011 10:41 PM GMT
    TropicalMark said
    LOL and this is 'your' thinking process?
    OneGeezer saidThe hate and vitriol of the fascist left, courtesy of folks just like Chrissy and to a slightly lesser extent, RealLifeMom is the reason that I voted YES on prop 8. Thankfully, these folks can’t procreate.


    Wow! He actually said that?!

    I hope the fucker gets run over by a bus.
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    May 09, 2011 10:43 PM GMT
    TigerTim said
    TropicalMark said
    LOL and this is 'your' thinking process?
    OneGeezer saidThe hate and vitriol of the fascist left, courtesy of folks just like Chrissy and to a slightly lesser extent, RealLifeMom is the reason that I voted YES on prop 8. Thankfully, these folks can’t procreate.


    Wow! He actually said that?!

    I hope the fucker gets run over by a bus.
    Yup!

    Right here on page one!

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/1545788 The "gay patriot" thread!
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19119

    May 09, 2011 10:47 PM GMT
    OneGeezer said
    GQjock saidNo
    It took a Democrat to ... embarrass the hell out of them


    A big + 1 and this guy, a democrat I assume, got all the way through his well reasoned argument without histrionics or calling anyone a racist or bigot. See, it can be done.



    Yes, I agree. What a well-spoken reasoned delivery. The kind that, hopefully, made people think. It appears from the applause, that he had a great deal of support in the room.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 09, 2011 10:49 PM GMT
    TropicalMark said
    TigerTim said
    TropicalMark said
    LOL and this is 'your' thinking process?
    OneGeezer saidThe hate and vitriol of the fascist left, courtesy of folks just like Chrissy and to a slightly lesser extent, RealLifeMom is the reason that I voted YES on prop 8. Thankfully, these folks can’t procreate.


    Wow! He actually said that?!

    I hope the fucker gets run over by a bus.
    Yup!

    Right here on page one!

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/1545788 The "gay patriot" thread!



    Come on, guys. He's just a troll trying to get a rise out of people because it's the only way anybody will ever pay attention to him. Just ignore him and he'll eventually slither back under his rock
  • creature

    Posts: 5197

    May 10, 2011 12:31 AM GMT
    miamimasseur said
    TropicalMark said
    TigerTim said
    TropicalMark said
    LOL and this is 'your' thinking process?
    OneGeezer saidThe hate and vitriol of the fascist left, courtesy of folks just like Chrissy and to a slightly lesser extent, RealLifeMom is the reason that I voted YES on prop 8. Thankfully, these folks can’t procreate.


    Wow! He actually said that?!

    I hope the fucker gets run over by a bus.
    Yup!

    Right here on page one!

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/1545788 The "gay patriot" thread!



    Come on, guys. He's just a troll trying to get a rise out of people because it's the only way anybody will ever pay attention to him. Just ignore him and he'll eventually slither back under his rock


    +1
  • creature

    Posts: 5197

    May 10, 2011 12:40 AM GMT
    OneGeezer,

    I'm going to call someone a "bigot" or a "racist" when it is evidently clear.

    And do you want to share with us why you voted yes on Prop 8?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 10, 2011 12:57 AM GMT
    The Minnesota Repubs will vote as they're told by their Party, as all Repubs do.. Some may make nice speeches, but in the end, they will vote as ordered. This will pass.
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    May 10, 2011 4:55 AM GMT
    True_blue_aussie said
    Well then he has never had a deep conversation with our half brothers the bisexuals now has he, about all their confusion regarding their sexuality, because they don't promotes sexuality is innate, they make it look more like a choice. Where us real gays do not endure the confusion of our half brothers, for us our sexuality is innate.


    How do I put this politely? Nice word choice. You look like you're talking out of your ass when you use the term "confusion" to describe bisexuality. When you say that, it's like you're somewhat implying that it's a transition and a problem to the LGBT community. For some, it may be a transition phase from heterosexual to homosexual, but for others, such as myself, it's not. I've felt this way for as long as I could remember. If I were honestly confused, I'd figure out what side of the fence I was on for awhile now and stick there. Also, for the record- when people talk about choice, they don't just talk about the bisexuals, they also talk about the people who identified as gay, then went straight for maybe that one person, or something like that.

    As Justin Tranter once said, "Sexuality is more fluid than people give it credit for." when it comes to that gray shade in between the black and white, we're talking that overall- you like who you like. Could it be absolutely no women, absolutely no men, absolutely no trans-persons, or a select pool of men/women/trans-persons. There's no confusion for me- I identify as bisexual and always have, and since I have identified that way for a long time now, I'll most likely always like girls and boys, and will seek companionship with whomever I fall in love with. For me- I don't care about what chromosome they were born with or what's in their pants- I merely care about beauty (inside and out, to a degree for both) and companionship. Dating is and always has been a contest for the survival of the fittest on individual levels, and if the fittest one is a guy, so be it. If the fittest one is a girl, also so be it. Love is love most of all, which is the point of marriage in general, regardless of whether or not people identify as homosexual, heterosexual, bisexual, pansexual, or any others I've never heard of, thus rendering what you said irrelevant about bisexuals holding back gay marriage rights.

    Also, I need to ask- what about the "true" gay men- your brothers, as you claim them to be- that get married to women, or have dated women for a long time, then suddenly come out? Aren't they more of a threat to their own rights than the openly bisexual men, because they suddenly come out after many, many years of identifying as straight, and in some cases, after having children of their own flesh and blood?