Rand Paul compares healthcare reform to "slavery" for physicians

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    May 12, 2011 1:28 PM GMT
    This is the most ridiculous argument I've ever heard. Is there a part of the reform act that I missed wherein it says doctors will work for free at gunpoint? icon_rolleyes.gif

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    May 12, 2011 1:38 PM GMT
    Rand's only Hippocratic oath was to his bank account. patients be damned.
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    May 12, 2011 2:02 PM GMT
    Rand said a restaurant manager has the right to refuse service to blacks.

    The people of Kentucky really suck for electing this sociopath.

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    May 12, 2011 2:51 PM GMT
    You notice how in troubled times these far right nuts come to the fore when people turn to "GOD" !! These sheeples will buy into just about anything as long as the supposed leaders say they're doing it with "GOD'S" blessing for the sake of "taking our country back".
  • tazzari

    Posts: 2929

    May 12, 2011 3:41 PM GMT
    None of these zealots ever speak with logic or reason; it's all hyperbole, all dishonest and ignorant.
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    May 12, 2011 4:34 PM GMT
    This is a little off track but: Do you know how many hospitals I saw in Europe the entire time I was there? And believe me, I looked for them.


    0

    I guess you can tell people they have free health care and yet when it comes right down to it there's hardly any place to get treatment.

    Something tells me becoming a doctor is not exactly a sought after career over there if someone is interested in making a lot of money.
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    May 12, 2011 4:40 PM GMT
    mocktwinkie saidThis is a little off track but: Do you know how many hospitals I saw in Europe the entire time I was there? And believe me, I looked for them.


    0

    I guess you can tell people they have free health care and yet when it comes right down to it there's hardly any place to get treatment.

    Something tells me becoming a doctor is not exactly a sought after career over there if someone is interested in making a lot of money.


    Huh? Because you didn't see any hospitals while traveling thru Europe, that means their health care system is poor?

    Interesting logic.....icon_rolleyes.gif
  • kew1

    Posts: 1595

    May 12, 2011 5:11 PM GMT
    mocktwinkie saidSomething tells me becoming a doctor is not exactly a sought after career over there if someone is interested in making a lot of money.


    Oh they can make moneyicon_biggrin.gif
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1382362/Anger-665-000-Britain-s-highest-paid-GP.html

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    May 12, 2011 5:17 PM GMT
    mocktwinkie saidThis is a little off track but: Do you know how many hospitals I saw in Europe the entire time I was there? And believe me, I looked for them.


    0

    I guess you can tell people they have free health care and yet when it comes right down to it there's hardly any place to get treatment.

    Something tells me becoming a doctor is not exactly a sought after career over there if someone is interested in making a lot of money.


    Republican logic at work....believe one anecdotal case over statistics compiled from billions of people.

    Below is a ranking of human life expectancy, by country. If you want to find where the US stands, you'll have to keep scrolling down, way past all those countries with socialized medicine...way down there below our old nemesis, Cuba. (And we spend almost double per capita over any of these countries with longer life expectancies.)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

    As you get down to the bottom of the list, you find countries who follow the Dr. Rand Paul and Republican solution to public health...namely: "Let parents and churches educate kids about sex and AIDS. Don't get sick. If you do get sick, do us a favor and die quickly."

  • TrentGrad

    Posts: 1541

    May 12, 2011 5:52 PM GMT
    mocktwinkie saidThis is a little off track but: Do you know how many hospitals I saw in Europe the entire time I was there? And believe me, I looked for them.


    0

    I guess you can tell people they have free health care and yet when it comes right down to it there's hardly any place to get treatment.

    Something tells me becoming a doctor is not exactly a sought after career over there if someone is interested in making a lot of money.


    Do you really expect we believe that you were looking for hospitals? Yeah twinkie, I was born in the day...but I wasn't born yesterday!

    Oh, and perhaps people who become Doctors to make a lot of money aren't exactly the type of people who make good Doctors in the first place...though my best friend (who is a great, ethical fellow) seems to be doing very well for himself, working in our socialized health care system up here!

    Just saying!
  • TrentGrad

    Posts: 1541

    May 12, 2011 6:01 PM GMT
    White4DarkerFL said
    mocktwinkie saidThis is a little off track but: Do you know how many hospitals I saw in Europe the entire time I was there? And believe me, I looked for them.


    0

    I guess you can tell people they have free health care and yet when it comes right down to it there's hardly any place to get treatment.

    Something tells me becoming a doctor is not exactly a sought after career over there if someone is interested in making a lot of money.


    Republican logic at work....believe one anecdotal case over statistics compiled from billions of people.

    Below is a ranking of human life expectancy, by country. If you want to find where the US stands, you'll have to keep scrolling down, way past all those countries with socialized medicine...way down there below our old nemesis, Cuba. (And we spend almost double per capita over any of these countries with longer life expectancies.)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

    As you get down to the bottom of the list, you find countries who follow the Dr. Rand Paul and Republican solution to public health...namely: "Let parents and churches educate kids about sex and AIDS. Don't get sick. If you do get sick, do us a favor and die quickly."



    Well in fairness to twinkie, the ranking of the USA could have something to do with the obesity epidemic, particularly among younger Americans, as well.

    Of course that might also suggest to most reasonable, rational people that orienting national ideals around the principle that "greed is good" may not be the best idea...but don't expect that twinkie or the other committed Republicans on here will give that idea a fair hearing!
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    May 12, 2011 6:07 PM GMT
    TrentGrad said
    White4DarkerFL said
    mocktwinkie saidThis is a little off track but: Do you know how many hospitals I saw in Europe the entire time I was there? And believe me, I looked for them.


    0

    I guess you can tell people they have free health care and yet when it comes right down to it there's hardly any place to get treatment.

    Something tells me becoming a doctor is not exactly a sought after career over there if someone is interested in making a lot of money.


    Republican logic at work....believe one anecdotal case over statistics compiled from billions of people.

    Below is a ranking of human life expectancy, by country. If you want to find where the US stands, you'll have to keep scrolling down, way past all those countries with socialized medicine...way down there below our old nemesis, Cuba. (And we spend almost double per capita over any of these countries with longer life expectancies.)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

    As you get down to the bottom of the list, you find countries who follow the Dr. Rand Paul and Republican solution to public health...namely: "Let parents and churches educate kids about sex and AIDS. Don't get sick. If you do get sick, do us a favor and die quickly."



    Well in fairness to twinkie, the ranking of the USA could have something to do with the obesity epidemic, particularly among younger Americans, as well.

    Of course that might also suggest to most reasonable, rational people that orienting national ideals around the principle that "greed is good" may not be the best idea...but don't expect that twinkie or the other committed Republicans on here will give that idea a fair hearing!


    We're all greedier than you think Trentgrad. Being able to admit it is more honorable than pretending otherwise.
  • musclmed

    Posts: 3274

    May 12, 2011 6:49 PM GMT
    Christian73 saidThis is the most ridiculous argument I've ever heard. Is there a part of the reform act that I missed wherein it says doctors will work for free at gunpoint? icon_rolleyes.gif



    I really do not see the problem with his hypothetical.

    If you go down the logical path that "Health-care is a Right", you really have to think in abstract ways to define the boundaries of that right.

    Because that is how we treat rights. It’s not an automatic societal "I know what that right means”, we test the boundaries of it, or the Supreme Court tests it in court.

    So if it is a right, is there a compelling right in Dr Paul's hypothetical for a patient to "conscript" him to work? I don't know.

    If you answer is, "that is ridiculous no one would do that and the (ACA) law doesn't do that.".... wait a moment
    Dr Paul was addressing the notion it is a "RIGHT". If it is, how can it be dealt with in any other way than in the abstract?

    We generally have a right to a defense in court, and counsel. But do we also have a right to a public defender (lawyer) to call when we are not a criminal defendant? I think not.

    Health-care is not the same as a Legal matter, but it’s not an obscene topic to discuss Miranda rights and the "right to an attorney" and the boundaries of that right.


    Once in a while, in an effort to address the Medical/Medicaid problem ( No physician that accepts the insurance) you will have a legislator introduce a bill that would make a requirement of a medical license to accept Medical.

    This is a reality, and if a "Right" is being discussed, the boundaries should be explored.
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    May 12, 2011 7:30 PM GMT
    mocktwinkie said

    We're all greedier than you think Trentgrad. Being able to admit it is more honorable than pretending otherwise.


    Thank you for admitting that we're all greedy. Exactly why we need government laws curbing the more dangerous effects of that greed.

    When it comes to health care, the greed factor explains our obesity epidemic and other health problems. If left up to the republicans...there would still be smoking in airplanes and restaurants...something republicans opposed vigorously.
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    May 12, 2011 7:34 PM GMT
    musclmed said
    Christian73 saidThis is the most ridiculous argument I've ever heard. Is there a part of the reform act that I missed wherein it says doctors will work for free at gunpoint? icon_rolleyes.gif



    I really do not see the problem with his hypothetical.

    If you go down the logical path that "Health-care is a Right", you really have to think in abstract ways to define the boundaries of that right.

    Because that is how we treat rights. It’s not an automatic societal "I know what that right means”, we test the boundaries of it, or the Supreme Court tests it in court.

    So if it is a right, is there a compelling right in Dr Paul's hypothetical for a patient to "conscript" him to work? I don't know.

    If you answer is, "that is ridiculous no one would do that and the (ACA) law doesn't do that.".... wait a moment
    Dr Paul was addressing the notion it is a "RIGHT". If it is, how can it be dealt with in any other way than in the abstract?

    We generally have a right to a defense in court, and counsel. But do we also have a right to a public defender (lawyer) to call when we are not a criminal defendant? I think not.

    Health-care is not the same as a Legal matter, but it’s not an obscene topic to discuss Miranda rights and the "right to an attorney" and the boundaries of that right.


    Once in a while, in an effort to address the Medical/Medicaid problem ( No physician that accepts the insurance) you will have a legislator introduce a bill that would make a requirement of a medical license to accept Medical.

    This is a reality, and if a "Right" is being discussed, the boundaries should be explored.


    IMO If you accept federal loans/grants to go to medical school, then you should be required to accept Medicare/Medicaid and Tricare.
  • musclmed

    Posts: 3274

    May 12, 2011 7:52 PM GMT
    catfish5 .


    IMO If you accept federal loans/grants to go to medical school, then you should be required to accept Medicare/Medicaid and Tricare.





    So you are saying, regardless of what your representatives set up as a insurance just transfer that expense to some MD.
    Make a private individual MD have to take Medicaid?

    Medicaid pays about 40% of what regular insurance pays. And often 6 months late. For a specialty like pediatrics it would be devasting, and destroy the system for everyone.

    I do not have a problem with the concept, but your mandate would likely extend to other professions as well. ( transportation, home health)

    I am protected and cursed as a specialist. My specialty is essentially bound to a federal program.

    Your idea is right and most physicians would do that, and actually do that now.

    The Medicaid population is seen by practitioners in hospitals, for pennies. ( i have a few checks from the NY medicaid program for dollar amounts in the 2-3 range as souvenirs.

    Almost every hospital I know makes a requirement of admitting privileges to accept Medicaid. So the concept exists in medicine.
    Medicine is not the problem.

    It is government that wants others to absorb the cost. Instead of funding it like it should.

    Medicaid for the most part is a hospital insurance, unless you are lucky and find a practitioner that accepts it.