is soreness important???

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 08, 2008 2:52 PM GMT
    when i go to the gym with my buddy we push ourselves really hard and always give 110%.....we always feel dead at the end of an intense workout.

    my question though is this....if we aren't sore one or two days after, does that mean we haven't torn down our muscles and aren't building mass?? if so, i'm not sure what to do because we PUSH ourselves to the limit at the gym. what more can we do??

    thanks for any help guys!!
  • TexanMan82

    Posts: 893

    Apr 08, 2008 3:41 PM GMT
    Soreness is not an indication of potential mass building. So, just because you're not feeling sore does not mean you're muscles aren't damaged.

    From your picture it looks like you have spent a considerable amount of time in the gym. The more time you've spent working out, the less likely you'll be sore. I barely get sore anymore, unless I totally change up my workout.
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    Apr 08, 2008 7:20 PM GMT
    charmeddan saidwhen i go to the gym with my buddy we push ourselves really hard and always give 110%.....we always feel dead at the end of an intense workout.

    my question though is this....if we aren't sore one or two days after, does that mean we haven't torn down our muscles and aren't building mass?? if so, i'm not sure what to do because we PUSH ourselves to the limit at the gym. what more can we do??

    thanks for any help guys!!


    If that really is a picture of you (a competition level physique), I find it incredible that you'd be asking this question.

    K
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    Apr 08, 2008 7:21 PM GMT
    TexanMan82 said I barely get sore anymore, unless I totally change up my workout.



    DING DING DING DING DING!!!!

    Did someone hear that alarm going off? I think it's trying to tell you something.

    icon_smile.gif

    K
  • TexanMan82

    Posts: 893

    Apr 08, 2008 9:30 PM GMT
    haha igauna.

    First thing that came to mind was that he doesn't change up workouts enough.

    I was also thrown off by the picture.
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    Apr 08, 2008 9:40 PM GMT
    I've been working out harder than I ever have in my life and I haven't been sore at all. Part of that has been that I've been stretching after most of my workouts but not all the time. I've heard - and I don't know if this is true - that if you eat really well, your body has sufficient nutrients to heal better and will experience less soreness. Sounds kind of like a crock to me but you never know.
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    Apr 08, 2008 9:42 PM GMT
    Workouts sometimes vary so much it's hard to say . You look like you are pushing your self hard enough to grow new muscle though.

    I use soreness as an indicator of how much I hit a certain muscle. But my workout is probably different than yours. I lift enough weight that I fail on the ninth rep. And I target that muscle making it the primary muscle receiving all the work. You may be doing more reps and just running out of energy and never feeling sore because of the lighter weight, just a guess. You look ripped and thats usually high reps doing that.

    But don't feel like you are doing it wrong because you are obviously getting results. If you lift enough weight that you fail on the ninth rep you should experience some soreness. And remember soreness should only last two days, any more and you are over training.

    In the end it all depends on how you want to look. If you want more mass go heavy with low reps. I you want a more ripped look, lower weight higher reps.

    Good luck
    Joe
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    Apr 08, 2008 9:43 PM GMT
    TexanMan82 saidhaha igauna.

    First thing that came to mind was that he doesn't change up workouts enough.

    I was also thrown off by the picture.


    Actually, the alarm was for you Texan! Change your damn workout! icon_smile.gif

    K
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    Apr 08, 2008 9:57 PM GMT
    innerathlete saidI've been working out harder than I ever have in my life and I haven't been sore at all. Part of that has been that I've been stretching after most of my workouts but not all the time. I've heard - and I don't know if this is true - that if you eat really well, your body has sufficient nutrients to heal better and will experience less soreness. Sounds kind of like a crock to me but you never know.


    Hmmm. Well. Eating right certainly helps you heal and recover better. So does sleeping right. And having a good mental attitude. And loving your fellow man. icon_smile.gif

    And stretching certainly helps as well. But... I'm suspicious Inner. To get hypertrophy (muscles broken down and repaired bigger), you need to mechanically damage them by lifting, and then the chemical cleanup and rebuild processes are actually quite nasty (the old broken fiber cells are destroyed and "rinsed out"), resulting in the nearly inevitable "delayed onset muscle soreness." (1 day delay for smaller muscles, sometimes 2 for legs).

    I'm sure it's possible in some people, but it's hard for me to believe one can achieve muscle hypertrophy without soreness just be stretching and eating right.

    Are you going to failure on each set?

    K
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    Apr 08, 2008 10:41 PM GMT
    I was doing a set of behind-the-head tricep extentions with a dumbbell last week and brought the weight down on my right thigh when I was done. Man, was my leg sore after that!!! icon_smile.gif

    But seriously, I try not to gauge workout effectiveness by soreness so much as by progress. It's a long-haul game, and you have to (1) vary the exercises in your workouts every so often and (2) vary the volume and intensity every so often. Once every four or five weeks I dial down to about 75% of my normal weights for lifting but try to double the reps per set and throw in an extra set or two (some call this "backing off").

    Last Friday the stronger of my two lifting partners jumped out of a plateau for flat-bench DB presses. Our gym's DBs stop at 125, and he'd gotten strong enough to press them for 11 reps for 5 sets. On Friday I brought in some dumbbell posts so we could make our own DBs with the plates in the gym. He got up to 164 in each hand for 5 reps. But he wasn't sore the next day (or since then).

    Soreness isn't the end-all-be-all measurement.

    But if you *really* want to be sore, try some of HolaBola's workouts. He's a straight guy who posts his workout journals on bodybuilding.com and his vids on youtube. He just posted a video of squats with 135 pounds for 150 reps. That'll leave you sore.

    video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6pzHogFe-I

    his BodySpace profile: http://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/HolaBola/

    Charmeddan, care to get yourself verified? I think it would make for smoother conversations in some cases. Thanks!
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    Apr 08, 2008 10:51 PM GMT
    Oh yes Iguana, there is major failure. I should clarify - I feel minor soreness but not a ton. And I know hypertrophy is occurring - either that or my clothes are shrinking. My trainer usually stretches me really deep after our sessions, I think that accounts for most of it.
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    Apr 09, 2008 1:18 AM GMT
    Sea: Good points! And I hate that soreness when I drop weights on my foot!

    Inner: I'm sure you're fine then. Especially if you're clothes are shrinking icon_smile.gif

    K

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    Apr 09, 2008 1:22 AM GMT
    I find that stretching (flexibility in general) lots of water and antioxidants help.

    I used to work myself to the limit when I wrestled in HS. Those things helped then and seem to help now.
    You look awesome!
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    Apr 09, 2008 1:24 AM GMT
    I don't think I got the question right. If you are not that sore and still look the way you do---more power to you.

    Pain is best left to brokenhearted teenagers.
  • Daniepwils

    Posts: 151

    Apr 20, 2008 2:50 PM GMT
    If you stretch before hand and after along with soaking the muscles you used working out in REALLY COLD water, you will be far less sore in the days after.
  • MikemikeMike

    Posts: 6932

    Apr 20, 2008 2:56 PM GMT
    Malic acid helps release latic acid build up in muscles- Eat some apples or take it in pill form with magnesium. Right after your workout before bed. This will cut down on the DOMS we all get after a workout. DOMS= delayed onset muscle syndrome-the normal muscle soreness that occurs the day after a workout in some poeple 2-3 days.

    My 2 cents.
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    Apr 20, 2008 3:01 PM GMT
    iguanaSF said[quote][cite][/cite]quote]

    If that really is a picture of you (a competition level physique), I find it incredible that you'd be asking this question.
    K


    Iguana. Agreed

    Pain (OW pain not good pain) is not good and shows two things...

    1. you are doing something wrong
    2. you are doing someting really wrong.

    as for soreness after, generally your body gets used to the feeling so you barely notice it but any time you lift you are going to be tearing muscle fibers which in turn will make them stronger and you grow. once you get into the routine you notice it less and less. try changing the routine and see what happens, with your body the pyramid routine that is up should bust you off of your plateau.
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    Apr 20, 2008 3:28 PM GMT
    My muscle mass has grown measurably in the last year and I rarely have muscle soreness. I did in the beginning, but stopped having that pain after a few weeks. I do routinely switch up my workout, and might have some soreness immediately following a change, but after about three workouts, no more DOMS.

    Stretching, cold water immersion (never getting into the sauna after a workout), glutamine, sleeping an extra 1.5 hours, and taking in at least some calories within 30 minutes of the end of the workout are all things I do to minimize recovery.

    In the end, I just look at the meaurements, mirror, and improvement in reps/weights. My pain sensors don't seem to be the best indicator.
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    Apr 29, 2008 10:55 AM GMT
    charmeddan saidwhen i go to the gym with my buddy we push ourselves really hard and always give 110%.....we always feel dead at the end of an intense workout.

    my question though is this....if we aren't sore one or two days after, does that mean we haven't torn down our muscles and aren't building mass?? if so, i'm not sure what to do because we PUSH ourselves to the limit at the gym. what more can we do??

    thanks for any help guys!!
    If you are not feeling the burn you may need to slow down (the 10-2-10) reps. That is 10 seconds into movement then hold 2 seconds at the greatest tension then 10 more seconds of movement to finish your first rep.