US Treasury to tap pensions to help fund government

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    May 16, 2011 9:07 PM GMT
    Too bad "spend less" isn't part of their toolkit to deal with their manufactured crisis.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/treasury-to-tap-pensions-to-help-fund-government/2011/05/15/AF2fqK4G_story.html

    The Obama administration will begin to tap federal retiree programs to help fund operations after the government lost its ability Monday to borrow more money from the public, adding urgency to efforts in Washington to fashion a compromise over the debt.

    Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner has warned for months that the government would soon hit the $14.3 trillion debt ceiling — a legal limit on how much it can borrow. With that limit reached Monday, Geithner is undertaking special measures in an effort to postpone the day when he will no longer have enough funds to pay all of the government’s bills.
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    May 16, 2011 10:54 PM GMT
    The crisis was manufactured by the Bush economy and is reaching its fever pitch due to continued Republican intransigence.
  • rnch

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    May 16, 2011 10:57 PM GMT
    where's all the promised jobs, GOPers?

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    May 17, 2011 12:12 AM GMT
    time for a massive gov't rummage sale... gold, strategic oil reserve, various disused/unused buildings...

    bring home ALL the troops and raise re-enlistment requirements/remove re-enlistment bonuses; mothball half the carrier fleet starting with the oldest vessels; remove the income cap on social security taxes...

    ... disband the Dept of Education and Homeland Security and FEMA and the DEA and NPR and the BATF... just for starters.
  • rnch

    Posts: 11525

    May 17, 2011 12:25 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    Christian73 saidThe crisis was manufactured by the Bush economy and is reaching its fever pitch due to continued Republican intransigence.


    Thank you for posting the "talking point of the day" from Democrat Central. icon_rolleyes.gif

    Too bad for the Democrats that it isn't true, as the blame goes to the previous Congress and Mr. O for going on a spending spree.

    Debt as of January 20, 2009: $10.6 Trillion

    Debt as of Today: $14.3 Trillion

    Increase: $4 Trillion in just over 2 years.

    Thank you,.Democrats.



    does anyone recall the "Debt of Today" when bill clinton exited the Presidency; when george bush became President??




    anyone??




    anyone?????
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    May 17, 2011 12:28 AM GMT
    rnch said
    southbeach1500 said
    Christian73 saidThe crisis was manufactured by the Bush economy and is reaching its fever pitch due to continued Republican intransigence.


    Thank you for posting the "talking point of the day" from Democrat Central. icon_rolleyes.gif

    Too bad for the Democrats that it isn't true, as the blame goes to the previous Congress and Mr. O for going on a spending spree.

    Debt as of January 20, 2009: $10.6 Trillion

    Debt as of Today: $14.3 Trillion

    Increase: $4 Trillion in just over 2 years.

    Thank you,.Democrats.



    does anyone recall the "Debt of Today" when bill clinton exited the Presidency; when george bush became President??




    anyone??




    anyone?????


    If you're looking for this number - it's $4 trillion over 8 years. Under the Obama Administration and a co-operative Congress, an additional $4 trillion in just over 2 years:
    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-500803_162-4486228-500803.html

    Even under the Bush Administration, fiscal conservatives were both uneasy and down right angry with the emergence of Porkbusters that was the predecessor to the Tea Party movement. I'm sorry, what's your point?
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    May 17, 2011 12:34 AM GMT
    Sorry, you forgot that chart that ought to accompany your post:
    DeficitChart.png
  • rnch

    Posts: 11525

    May 17, 2011 12:34 AM GMT
    [quote][cite]riddler78 said....Even under the Bush Administration, fiscal conservatives were both uneasy and down right angry with the emergence of Porkbusters that was the predecessor to the Tea Party movement. I'm sorry, what's your point?[/quote]


    my point, you pompus priole, is that today we are paying for the excesses and fiscal stupidity of the republican bush mis-administration. and will be for a long time. something the current batch of GOPers are conviently ignoring.
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    May 17, 2011 12:36 AM GMT
    q1w2e3 saidSorry, you forgot that chart that ought to accompany your post:


    And you forgot the origin of this chart which makes up numbers wholesale. Have a read of the original study and its footnotes. I've repeatedly shown them in the past.

    When the facts don't fit your views, gesticulating wildly as a distraction does not help. It also explains why you didn't bother to link the source of the chart.
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    May 17, 2011 12:42 AM GMT
    Here's the link to my chart. (it's updated 5/10/11, if you've repeated shown them in the past)
    http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3490
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    May 17, 2011 12:58 AM GMT
    q1w2e3 saidHere's the link to my chart. (it's updated 5/10/11, if you've repeated shown them in the past)
    http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=3490


    Did you even bother to read the "study"? Are you arguing that Bush's tax expiring tax cuts are ones that the Obama Administration didn't end up adopting? So that we should blame Bush then for Obama extending the tax cuts?

    Ditto with the policies with respect to TARP, financial crisis, stimulus and Iraq/Afghanistan wars?
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    May 17, 2011 1:02 AM GMT
    Yes I read the table 1 you're referring to.
    It makes several very realistic assumptions:

    b. Assumes continuation of all income-tax and estate and gift tax provisions scheduled to expire on December 31, 2012, as well as other expiring tax provisions. [please tell me the Republicans are not going to fight for that, and very possibly win]
    c. Assumes indexation of AMT thresholds for inflation. Includes interaction with assumed extension of expiring tax cuts.
    d. Assumes that Medicare’s physician payment rates are maintained at 2011 levels.[as a physician, I can tell you that this will likely NOT happen, because physician groups clamor for continued increases in Medicare rates, even if they lag behind inflation, as has been the case for the last decade. The 20% or so payment reduction that should have happened a long time ago has been forestalled again and again in Congress.]
    e. Assumes reduction to 45,000 troops by 2015. [has been a goal of Obama since the beginning, and he's done an OK job with pulling out of Iraq so far. If more troops stay, it just makes the war expenses more]

    And yes, I do blame Obama for extending the Bush tax cuts.
    The whole point of that table about TARP is that it's a one time large increase in deficit but without the Bush tax cuts, it would have been eventually be paid for.
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    May 17, 2011 1:06 AM GMT
    q1w2e3 saidYes I read the table 1 you're referring to.
    It makes several very realistic assumptions:

    b. Assumes continuation of all income-tax and estate and gift tax provisions scheduled to expire on December 31, 2012, as well as other expiring tax provisions. [please tell me the Republicans are not going to fight for that, and very possibly win]
    c. Assumes indexation of AMT thresholds for inflation. Includes interaction with assumed extension of expiring tax cuts.
    d. Assumes that Medicare’s physician payment rates are maintained at 2011 levels.[as a physician, I can tell you that this will likely NOT happen, because physician groups clamor for continued increases in Medicare rates, even if they lag behind inflation, as has been the case for the last decade. The 20% or so payment reduction that should have happened a long time ago has been forestalled again and again in Congress.]
    e. Assumes reduction to 45,000 troops by 2015. [has been a goal of Obama since the beginning, and he's done an OK job with pulling out of Iraq so far. If more troops stay, it just makes the war expenses more]

    And yes, I do blame Obama for extending the Bush tax cuts.
    The whole point of that table about TARP is that it's a one time large increase in deficit but without the Bush tax cuts, it would have been eventually be paid for.


    Sorry, but you do realize that the tax cuts were extended under the Obama Administration? The title of the chart you embed makes the argument that these are simply because of Bush's policies despite the fact they've been adopted wholesale and then some by the Obama Administration. Further, they minimize the spending as a result of the ARRA and the growth overall in government spending as a foregone conclusion. That's just intellectually dishonest - and a fortunately transparent ploy to deflect attention to the fact that spending has risen dramatically under the Obama Administration.
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    May 17, 2011 1:10 AM GMT
    OK, so you do agree that the Bush tax cuts (as extended by Obama) need to be repealed? I'm so thankful on that point.icon_lol.gif

    I'm even willing to dub them the "Obama tax cuts" for your sake.
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    May 17, 2011 1:20 AM GMT
    q1w2e3 saidOK, so you do agree that the Bush tax cuts (as extended by Obama) need to be repealed? I'm so thankful on that point.icon_lol.gif

    I'm even willing to dub them the "Obama tax cuts" for your sake.


    In your world, you seem to believe tax cuts are "costs" - this despite the fact that the actual size of government and government spending has risen so substantially - and that's not because of the wars which even in this chart are minimal. Why is it that you believe that governments are entitled to spend money that is taxed? That money earned isn't the result of anything that private institutions and individuals do but by the benevolence of government?

    As I noted the baseline in this "study" doesn't even account for the increasaed spending. No, I believe that the tax cuts should stay but that the US government can and should spend less.
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    May 17, 2011 1:22 AM GMT
    Sigh, and there goes the agreement...icon_cry.gif

    May I remind you who is insisting on the increases in defense spending that I quoted (you know, the extra engine and the missile program that doesn't even have its plan for next year)? It's the Republicans.