TRUST, PATIENCE and INSTANT GRATIFICATION - The Lacking Lazy Perfect BF Conundrum

  • MuscleComeBac...

    Posts: 2376

    May 17, 2011 1:05 PM GMT
    Yes, this is a rant. But it's been brewing, so forgive me, please.
    And note from the start, this is - in part - self-examining rhetoric, lest I bleed out from the shards imbedded in me as a result of throwing stones in my own glass house.

    It seems to me that (among the men who want BF's/lovers/partners) we want the perfect man, a guy who loves us deeply, will always be faithful, fucks like a porn star, is instantly open and accessible, but not too clingy, leave us alone with friends and trusts us, is not possessive or jealous, trusts us implicitly but understands when we flirt online, but will never flirt online himself, and will accept our affection and adoration without feeling smothered or pushing us away. Oh, and is our ideal physical type - almost forgot that one.icon_eek.gif

    Okay, hyperbole aside, can we face our own desires and fears openly, and not panic when someone else shares theirs? Can we strive to live up to what is expected of us - which should be no less than what we expect of others? And can we understand that we are all imperfect people, who hope that we will be loved as deeply as we want to love someone else (as the saying goes...warts and all)? Or are we determined to just fuck it up because it's easier to tolerate the idea of it all being impossible than it is to tolerate the idea that we might actually deserve and get it if we put our mind to it?

    * * *

    Does ANYone here, truly, start by being upfront with a guy about things you hope for - even if it might scare them away? And I'm not talking first date, I'm talking once you realize you might have a shot at something. (e.g. tell them you really want to date someone exclusively, and that you like to hear how they are feeling, and hope to have a guy who will say "I love you" and not take you for granted.) Does ANYone here actually consider dating a guy who is a little left or right of being an ideal, seriously giving him a chance as opposed to using him as a placeholder until "the real deal" comes along? Or is an unrealistic set of expectations and the game of fear ruling how you rule out the men you would date or you think would date you?

    I'm baffled by what's wrong with being honest, and what it is that drives us apart from each other - in spite of the fact that such a huge percentage of what scares us is exactly what we'd like in a bodyfriend/lover/partners - such as someone who is so into us that they'd deck the first guy who flirted with us in public, or get upset if we didn't call to say 'hey, I miss you' or cares enough about their physical attraction to keep in good shape and expects the same of us.
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    May 17, 2011 2:16 PM GMT
    "Does ANYone here, truly, start by being upfront with a guy about things you hope for - even if it might scare them away?"


    YES. It used to scare the crap out of the boys, which was OK because I wanted a man.

    -Doug


    PS did I get hurt a lot? Sure I did, at first. I learned to navigate the rejections, and celebrate the successes, though they didn't last (until Bill came along, of course).
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    May 17, 2011 2:34 PM GMT
    See if anything is forming with a guy, I like to be honest upfront. I don't want to surprise a guy with anything down the road. I tell them I want to be monogamous and I won't tolerate cheating. Anything else that could be an issue later on, I bring up. I don't care if it scares guys away, because if it does, they weren't right for me.

    As far as compromising on our ideal, there are certain things I will not compromise on such as trust and monogamy, but there are plenty of other things such as age, physical, etc. that I am willing to compromise on.
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    May 17, 2011 3:15 PM GMT
    i know at least some of us do extend ourselves and stick our necks out and say "yes, this is what i want...i'm mortal....i have flaws, let's go for it"

    BUT

    if it doesn't work out, i know i personally take a long time to lick my wounds before i put myself back out there.

    also, misery loves company, so you hear alot more of the negative sides than the positive ones.

    i think there is a culture of self-sabotage, where people stay in a peter pan mode, which is encouraged by companies that find it easier to market to men in that state.

    i dated a man at the end of last year who complained that he wanted a boyfriend who was also a friend. but if you were his friend, he'd find ways to reject you. then he'd ignore you. he created his own isolation. it was sad. eventually, people move on from people like that.

    SO

    yes, there are people out there, but it's like the theory of alien life that says life forms so randomly that it can be like blinking christmas lights that are out of synch
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    May 17, 2011 3:24 PM GMT
    Hey BambinoRex, this is what a very top-notch psychologist said to me once as well.
    " i think there is a culture of self-sabotage, where people stay in a peter pan mode, which is encouraged by companies that find it easier to market to men in that state."

    He said, though, that self-sabotage also happens because depending on the background a gay man is coming from, down inside there's a small voice telling him he doesn't deserve certain kinds of happiness.

    I often talked to this friend (psychologist) about conversations I had with others. Informal psych training. One in particular was a friend that had said,

    "I'm all alone again. But that's as it should be, don't you think?"

  • MuscleComeBac...

    Posts: 2376

    May 17, 2011 3:43 PM GMT
    MOL....This is exactly what I was alluding to when I wrote
    " it's easier to tolerate the idea of it all being impossible than it is to tolerate the idea that we might actually deserve and get it if we put our mind to it"

    I think SO many men that I encounter simply cannot stand the idea of having happiness, it scares them. They feel like it's inevitable that it will go awry and so they self-sabotage simply because it's a familiar feeling, and they know how to manage the disappointment. My ex still to this day, after working SO hard on it in therapy and us working together on it for the 16 years we were in the relationship, cannot hear good news and won't believe that others support him. He misconstrues everything as an underhanded remark, or criticism. I grew so damned paranoid over the years that I started to think that I was actually undermining him without knowing it, that on some subliminal level I was being critical or backhanded, but it wasn't the case. It got to the point that I was afraid to say ANYthing, because he'd misread it or, worse, negate it and reject it so any praise or love or affection I offered was met with "you don't really mean that." Even now, as his best friend, I edit my praise because he'll just negate it. It's a terrible thing, to love someone so deeply and have them love you back, but never believe you. It's also a bit passive aggressive and controlling, I've come to realize. Still, God, it just hurts. I hurts so bad. Ugh.

    Anyway, just feeling a bit hopeless these days and trying not to give in to it, to grow up without growing out of hope and some of the boyish 'belief' in good that I think makes me uniquely me. Fighting cynicism, I guess. I've noticed my posts are snarky as hell lately.... again, ugh.



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    May 17, 2011 4:09 PM GMT
    i think it's compounded for gay men, but is typical of men in general

    not everyone can talk about their feelings.

    it's where the "fortress of solitude" concept comes from

    i find it very hard to suspend disbelief and put myself out there, and that's what it requires. suspending disbelief on your well justified lack of faith in humanity in hopes you'll run across someone else making the same effort at the same time. but unlike fairy tales, once the high wears off, it's still work. just like any friendship is work to a degree.
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    May 17, 2011 5:42 PM GMT
    MuscleComeBack said He misconstrues everything as an underhanded remark, or criticism. I grew so damned paranoid over the years that I started to think that I was actually undermining him without knowing it, that on some subliminal level I was being critical or backhanded, but it wasn't the case. It got to the point that I was afraid to say ANYthing, because he'd misread it or, worse, negate it and reject it so any praise or love or affection I offered was met with "you don't really mean that." Even now, as his best friend, I edit my praise because he'll just negate it. It's a terrible thing, to love someone so deeply and have them love you back, but never believe you. It's also a bit passive aggressive and controlling, I've come to realize. Still, God, it just hurts. I hurts so bad. Ugh.


    I'm so sorry. That sounds dreadful, and exhausting.

    The thing to remember is - it's him, not you. By walking on eggshells and censoring yourself around him, you are continuing to make his issues yours. Better to be yourself, feel what you feel, say what you need to say, and then work on drawing appropriate personal boundaries for yourself. I think of it as putting up a wall - you are justified in protecting yourself when you need to.

    It is true that many men life in a "fortress of solitude" - but it's also true that some of us tend to lead with our hearts and "merge" even when we should be thinking about our own health, our own self-worth. Fortress walls may be bad, but it's always nice to have a little retaining wall that keeps your neighbor's dirt from spilling over into your yard. icon_wink.gif

    Just my two cents, based on some hard-fought personal experience. YMMV.