House rejects debt ceiling increase, 318-97

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 01, 2011 12:14 AM GMT
    Remarkably among the people who voted against the increase were 82 Democrats - among them Pelosi, Hoyer, and DNC chief Debbie Wasserman-Schultz.

    http://edition.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/05/31/debt.ceiling.vote/index.html

    The Republican-controlled House voted 318-97 on the legislation that would have raised the federal government’s debt limit by approximately $2.4 trillion.

    Under rules for the vote set by the GOP leadership, the measure needed at least two-thirds support to pass, ensuring it had no chance for approval.

    The vote was scheduled by Republican leaders to show that any attempt to divorce an increase in the debt ceiling from spending reduction efforts — a move initially favored by the Obama White House — cannot win congressional approval.

    Democrats called the move a dangerous political stunt that could rattle financial markets.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Jun 01, 2011 12:57 AM GMT
    Well .... republicans didn't learn from the message they were sent from Wisconsin and from NY 26th District and from the Jacksonville FL Mayoral race and from the Tampa FL mayoral race and from the special election is NH and special election in Maine
    All areas that had LONG histories of republicans holding seats

    Public to republicans ..................... CUT the Crap

    I guess they didn't get the message yet Huh?
  • creature

    Posts: 5197

    Jun 01, 2011 1:23 AM GMT
    riddler78,

    It's not remarkable that some of those Democrats voted against the increase if you knew the reason why. If Pelosi and company voted for the debt ceiling increase, that also meant they would have voted for cuts they did not support.

    Next time, put some thought into your posts.
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    Jun 01, 2011 2:52 AM GMT
    creature saidriddler78,

    It's not remarkable that some of those Democrats voted against the increase if you knew the reason why. If Pelosi and company voted for the debt ceiling increase, that also meant they would have voted for cuts they did not support.

    Next time, put some thought into your posts.


    In the first paragraph of the story, it reads:
    "In a symbolic vote to send a message to budget negotiators, the House on Tuesday defeated a measure to raise the national debt ceiling without any accompanying deficit or spending reduction provisions."

    Perhaps you should consider reading the article or know something about the issue(s) before you bother responding.
  • creature

    Posts: 5197

    Jun 01, 2011 3:09 AM GMT
    riddler78 said
    creature saidriddler78,

    It's not remarkable that some of those Democrats voted against the increase if you knew the reason why. If Pelosi and company voted for the debt ceiling increase, that also meant they would have voted for cuts they did not support.

    Next time, put some thought into your posts.


    In the first paragraph of the story, it reads:
    "In a symbolic vote to send a message to budget negotiators, the House on Tuesday defeated a measure to raise the national debt ceiling without any accompanying deficit or spending reduction provisions."

    Perhaps you should bother to read the articles or know something about the issue(s) before you bother responding.


    I'm willing to stand corrected. However, the Democrats who voted against the increase did not do so for whatever reason you might imagine. Here is what Hoyer had to say about it:

    I don’t intend to advise that my members subject themselves to a political 30-second ad and attack. This matter is a tough issue because the American public does not want to see the debt limit raised because they believe that it will simply provide for further borrowing as opposed to paying off the debts that we have already incurred,” Hoyer, D-Maryland, said. “If the Republicans were prepared to work on a bipartisan basis on this issue, which is the only way we really do very tough things that are controversial, then I would be prepared to urge at least half of my members to support the extension of the debt limit – including myself. But my advice to them [today] will be not to play this political charade.”

    Therefore, seeing it as "remarkable," which you did in your original post is still short-sighted and negligible.
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    Jun 01, 2011 3:18 AM GMT
    creature saidI'm willing to stand corrected. However, the Democrats who voted against the increase did not do so for whatever reason you might imagine. Here is what Hoyer had to say about it:

    I don’t intend to advise that my members subject themselves to a political 30-second ad and attack. This matter is a tough issue because the American public does not want to see the debt limit raised because they believe that it will simply provide for further borrowing as opposed to paying off the debts that we have already incurred,” Hoyer, D-Maryland, said. “If the Republicans were prepared to work on a bipartisan basis on this issue, which is the only way we really do very tough things that are controversial, then I would be prepared to urge at least half of my members to support the extension of the debt limit – including myself. But my advice to them [today] will be not to play this political charade.”

    Therefore, seeing it as "remarkable," which you did in your original post is still short-sighted and negligible.

    With all due respect, creature, I think you are falling for Hoyer's attempt to put a positive spin on this. The Democrats had demanded a vote on a clean ceiling increase, thinking the Republicans would never go along with this, allowing the Democrats to score political points. It subsequently became clear that public sentiment and an increasing number of Democrats realized there had to be cuts along with a ceiling increase. The Republicans just gave into the Democratic demands for a vote on a clean increase, which annoyed the Democrats because their tactic backfired.
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    Jun 01, 2011 3:30 AM GMT
    creature said
    riddler78 said
    creature saidriddler78,

    It's not remarkable that some of those Democrats voted against the increase if you knew the reason why. If Pelosi and company voted for the debt ceiling increase, that also meant they would have voted for cuts they did not support.

    Next time, put some thought into your posts.


    In the first paragraph of the story, it reads:
    "In a symbolic vote to send a message to budget negotiators, the House on Tuesday defeated a measure to raise the national debt ceiling without any accompanying deficit or spending reduction provisions."

    Perhaps you should bother to read the articles or know something about the issue(s) before you bother responding.


    I'm willing to stand corrected. However, the Democrats who voted against the increase did not do so for whatever reason you might imagine. Here is what Hoyer had to say about it:

    I don’t intend to advise that my members subject themselves to a political 30-second ad and attack. This matter is a tough issue because the American public does not want to see the debt limit raised because they believe that it will simply provide for further borrowing as opposed to paying off the debts that we have already incurred,” Hoyer, D-Maryland, said. “If the Republicans were prepared to work on a bipartisan basis on this issue, which is the only way we really do very tough things that are controversial, then I would be prepared to urge at least half of my members to support the extension of the debt limit – including myself. But my advice to them [today] will be not to play this political charade.”

    Therefore, seeing it as "remarkable," which you did in your original post is still short-sighted and negligible.


    Um - what reasons did I imagine? Perhaps you should consider reading rather than inferring and assuming. "Willing" to stand corrected? Is that sort of like actually standing corrected?

    This was a clean up or down vote it seems based on the article(s) also in the NYT and the WSJ on whether or not to increase the debt limit. Both Hoyer and Pelosi voted against it.

    I'm sure there are other political machinations involved but it's not like this was unanimous either - so of all the Democrats who voted against the measure it's remarkable that Hoyer and Pelosi, amongst the most liberal of the caucus voted against it.
  • creature

    Posts: 5197

    Jun 01, 2011 3:48 AM GMT
    It's not remarkable because we know (although you appear to be feigning ignorance), that Hoyer and Pelosi are in favor of raising the debt ceiling.

    But this is all just politics since the Republicans voted to raise the debt ceiling without request for debt reduction:

    http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/04/11/173888/senate-debt-limit-flashback/
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    Jun 01, 2011 3:53 AM GMT
    creature saidIt's not remarkable because we know (although you appear to be feigning ignorance), that Hoyer and Pelosi are in favor of raising the debt ceiling.

    But this is all just politics since the Republicans voted to raise the debt ceiling without request for debt reduction:

    http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/04/11/173888/senate-debt-limit-flashback/


    They absolutely did. They've done so - as have practically all Congresses previously. Further, the President while a Senator voted against increasing the debt limit. It is unclear what your point is.

    Note as well that:

    http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/05/house-overwhelmingly-rejects-debt-limit-increase-82-dems-vote-no

    Just last month, 114 Democrats signed a letter calling for a “clean” vote and Democratic Minority Whip Rep. Steny Hoyer, D-Md., also advocated one.


    Of course the Examiner speculates that given the Democrats were never expecting a clean vote to happen, because it actually did, Hoyer is attempting to lay cover for the moderate Democrats who actually voted against raising the debt limit and genuinely do not believe it should be raised presumably as well for reasons of self preservation. Raising the debt limit right now apparently is very unpopular.

    But honestly - read what Hoyer said - it's absurd that you would bother to take him at face value given how ridiculous on its face the explanation is. Every opposition party time immemorial claims that things should be bipartisan and that when they don't get their way that the other party wasn't willing to work with them. I'll assume you're the one feigning ignorance here as the alternative is that you're just being naive.