Gays and Religion

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    Jun 01, 2011 7:53 PM GMT
    Disclaimer – The OP apologies for the length of this post and if it offends =)

    Okay I’ve read and seen several posts hear about people wondering about gay acceptance, god, church, heaven and hell. I’d just like to say a few things on the topic:-

    Firstly any religion is just “a way of life” a bunch of rules and norms that one should follow to live a “decent life”, that’s what’s meant by being a Christian, a Muslim, a Hindu etc…

    Where as spiritually is your personal connection to whatever form of god you choose to believe in. I’m saying it like this cause just because some people have no Religion doesn’t mean they don’t believe in the existence of a God.

    Religious organizations such as church and others are just places where people of common interest of spiritually gather. It’s just a structure where the atmosphere is structured in such a way that the mind is focused on God, you can achieve that same divine feeling if you dedicated and decorated a room like that in your own home.

    Religious leaders be it a priest and what not are just people who are “suppose to be “ knowledgeable about the religious texts and their teachings “who can explain them properly”. That’s just the same as anyone else who specializes in whatever career practice they choose sometimes there are those who do it improperly….

    My point of this is –

    God created you no matter WHAT anyone says, it’s not by an accident you’re here, yes GOD knows you’re gay that’s the way he/she created you so stop feeling guilty for your existence, YOU can still be whatever religion you choose to be and have YOUR own personal spiritual relationship with god.

    Has the priest or any one of those homo slandering people out there had a personal conversation with god where he was told them being gay is wrong?? If so in that same manner don’t you think god would also speak or indicated to you its wrong?? Gays and anything else indifferent has always existed.

    To all those judgmental religious people out there who go about condemning you they are the fakers, you’re the true Christian because god doesn’t go about condemning his children and where as they’re slinging mud in your faces you’re focused on living life in a decent manner.

    GOD made people in his image but he didn’t make their minds and hearts like his, remember that so please stop beating yourself up over what people say and what organization won’t accept you and concentrate on your own relationship with god.

    You’re not going to burn in hell just because you’re gay; it’s only if you’ve lived a selfish and unrighteous life BUT then so is everyone else despite their sexual orientation the same rules apply. So tell that to the married Christian lady who’s having an affair with her neighbor the next time you see her, when you and your committed boyfriend attend church next time.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 01, 2011 9:10 PM GMT
    Woot! Atta boy! Good post. icon_wink.gif
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    Jun 02, 2011 1:27 AM GMT
    Great post Carib and keep it up. I love to read postings from enlightened children of God.
  • twilight2010

    Posts: 307

    Jun 02, 2011 6:06 AM GMT
    My point of this is –

    God created you no matter WHAT anyone says, it’s not by an accident you’re here, yes GOD knows you’re gay that’s the way he/she created you so stop feeling guilty for your existence, YOU can still be whatever religion you choose to be and have YOUR own personal spiritual relationship with god.

    Has the priest or any one of those homo slandering people out there had a personal conversation with god where he was told them being gay is wrong?? If so in that same manner don’t you think god would also speak or indicated to you its wrong?? Gays and anything else indifferent has always existed.

    To all those judgmental religious people out there who go about condemning you they are the fakers, you’re the true Christian because god doesn’t go about condemning his children and where as they’re slinging mud in your faces you’re focused on living life in a decent manner.

    GOD made people in his image but he didn’t make their minds and hearts like his, remember that so please stop beating yourself up over what people say and what organization won’t accept you and concentrate on your own relationship with god.

    You’re not going to burn in hell just because you’re gay; it’s only if you’ve lived a selfish and unrighteous life BUT then so is everyone else despite their sexual orientation the same rules apply. So tell that to the married Christian lady who’s having an affair with her neighbor the next time you see her, when you and your committed boyfriend attend church next time.
    [/quote]


    Let the WORD of GOD ALMIGHTY SPEAK

    Romans 2

    1 You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2 Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3 So when you, a mere human being, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment? 4 Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, forbearance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness is intended to lead you to repentance?

    The Bible is clear about how we have Salvation. I am a Christian and would not be anything else. My salvation is secure in Jesus Christ Holy name, Jesus is my High Priest and very soon God according to His Word Jesus Christ will come and take back His children and the lost will experience destruction.

    Priest deacons pastors whoever should clearly read Romans 2. Vengence belongs to God. The Gay and Lesbian souls will not be excluded from God's Kingdom.

    Amen
  • twilight2010

    Posts: 307

    Jun 02, 2011 6:13 AM GMT

    You’re not going to burn in hell just because you’re gay; it’s only if you’ve lived a selfish and unrighteous life BUT then so is everyone else despite their sexual orientation the same rules apply. So tell that to the married Christian lady who’s having an affair with her neighbor the next time you see her, when you and your committed boyfriend attend church next time.
    [/quote]

    I do not believe that God sends people to hell for these reasons. Firstly if you are Christian I cannot speak for other faiths but when a person dies their Spirit (which is the breath of God) goes back to God. Secondly you remain in your grave and sleep and wait for Jesus Christ voice of Archangel to wake us up. You see if we die and then we go to hell, how can that be, why I say this is? Does God who is the Righteous Judge first condemn us then have a judgement? No of course not, does he let you go to heaven when you die and and have a preview of it then later when he judges say you not worthy.

    According to the Bible we are judged by God, When Jesus comes He is bring our rewards with Him, If we go to Heaven when we die then why does Jesus bring our rewards with Him

    I made a post called What happens when we die? I honestly do not believe that we go to helll or heaven at death as this is what the scriptures teach.

    I believe in the Bible and in my belief God is makes no mistakes this is why the Biblical Scriptures are not flawed.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 02, 2011 11:00 AM GMT
    ...and what did Paul say about slavery and the oppression of women, Mr literalist?
  • twilight2010

    Posts: 307

    Jun 02, 2011 12:14 PM GMT
    Paul said a few things on woman

    I will let God's word answer your question

    34 Women[a] should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says.
    35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
    11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission
    (1 Tim 2:12 ) I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent.


    (1 Tim 2:9 NRSV) also that the women should dress themselves modestly and decently in suitable clothing, not with their hair braided, or with gold, pearls, or expensive clothes, …

    The woman were not educated in these days and during the service they would often ask their husbands what did this and that mean. So Paul said a woman must NOT speak in church but rather ask their husbands at home. You know how anoying it would be while the Priest is speaking and people are chatting to eachother. Woman must be silent for this reason.

    If Paul used this verse to stop woman from preaching in church then they would not be able to pray or do anything and this would not even agree with Acts.

    Acts 2:16-18
    New International Version (NIV)

    16 No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:

    17 “‘In the last days, God says,
    I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
    Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
    your young men will see visions,
    your old men will dream dreams.
    18 Even on my servants, both men and women,
    I will pour out my Spirit in those days,
    and they will prophesy.

    Acts 2:4
    New International Version (NIV)

    4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues[a] as the Spirit enabled them.

    There was woman present among the men here to and the Holy Ghost fell upon all the people there.

    Also

    Galatians 3:28

    28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

    This is what Paul said. It is very clear that Paul was a strict man.

    The Holy Spirit will never contradict His Word because He is God



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    Jun 02, 2011 1:10 PM GMT
    A little more on slavery; New Testament:

    "Lk.12:46-47 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
    Lk.17:7-9 But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat? And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink? Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not.
    1 Cor.7:21-22 Art thou called being a servant? care not for it: but if thou mayest be made free, use it rather. For he that is called in the Lord, being a servant, is the Lord's freeman: likewise also he that is called, being free, is Christ's servant.
    Eph.6:5 Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God.
    Col.3:22 Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ.

    Col.3:22 Masters, give unto your servants that which is just and equal; knowing that ye also have a Master in heaven.
    1 Tim.6:1-5 Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their masters worthy of all honor, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed. And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort. If any man teach otherwise ... he is proud, knowing nothing.... From such withdraw thyself.
    Tit.2:9-10 Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God.
    1 Pet.2:18 Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear, not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward."

    .....and more on slavery from the Old Testament:

    "Gen.9:25-27 And he [Noah] said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren. And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant. God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.
    Gen.16:8-9 And he said, Hagar, Sarai's maid, whence camest thou? and whither wilt thou go? And she said, I flee from the face of my mistress Sarai. And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her hands.
    Gen.17:12-13 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed. He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised.
    Gen.24:35-36 And the LORD hath blessed my master [Abraham] greatly; and he is become great: and he hath given him flocks, and herds, and silver, and gold, and menservants, and maidservants, and camels, and asses. And Sarah my master's wife bare a son to my master when she was old: and unto him hath he given all that he hath.
    Gen.26:12-14 Then Isaac sowed in that land, and received in the same year an hundredfold: and the LORD blessed him. And the man waxed great, and went forward, and grew until he became very great: For he had possession of flocks, and possession of herds, and great store of servants.
    Ex.12:44 But every man's servant that is bought for money, when thou hast circumcised him, then shall he eat thereof.
    Ex.20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
    Ex.21:2-6 If thou buy a Hebrew servant....
    Ex.21:7 And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant....
    Ex.21:20-21 If a man smite his servant or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand, he shall be surely punished; notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished, for he is his money.
    Ex.21:26-27 And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish; he shall let him go free for his eye's sake. And if he smite out his manservant's tooth, or his maidservant's tooth; he shall let him go free for his tooth's sake.
    Ex.21:32 If the ox shall push a manservant or a maidservant; he shall give unto their master thirty shekels of silver.
    Ex.22:2-3 If a thief ... have nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft.
    Lev.19:20 And whosoever lieth carnally with a woman, that is a bondmaid, betrothed to an husband, and not at all redeemed, nor freedom given her; she shall be scourged; they shall not be put to death, because she was not free.
    Lev.22:11 If the priest buy any soul with his money....
    Lev.25:39 And if thy brother that dwelleth by thee be waxen poor, and be sold unto thee....
    Lev.25:44-46 Thy bond-men and thy bond-maids which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you: of them shall ye buy bond-men and bond-maids. Moreover, of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land. And they shall be your possession. And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession, they shall be your bond-man forever.
    Dt.5:21 Neither shalt thou desire thy neighbour's wife, neither shalt thou covet thy neighbour's house, his field, or his manservant, or his maidservant, his ox, or his ass, or any thing that is thy neighbour's.
    Dt.15:12 And if thy brother, an Hebrew man, or an Hebrew woman be sold unto thee....
    Dt.20:10-11 When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it. And it shall be, if it make thee answer of peace, and open unto thee, then it shall be, that all the people that is found therein shall be tributaries unto thee, and they shall serve thee.
    Dt.20:14 But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself.
    Jos.9:23 Now therefore ye are cursed, and there shall none of you be freed from being bondmen, and hewers of wood and drawers of water for the house of my God. "

    By taking that book literally you corner yourself into the untenable situation of having to accept slavery. As you can see Paul is contradicting Tim.

    My belief in god is far deeper and greater than the childish prattlings in that book.

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    Jun 04, 2011 8:24 PM GMT
    Religion has nothing to do with true spirituality. I know some "religious" people who are unforgiving, nasty and riteous. Hmmm all the qualities God admire and loves.... For my 2 pence worth, I believe in a god who doesn't make mistakes, has unconditional love in their heart and actually has a sense of humour.
    My love and light to you all.
    www.malleablereality.com