The Case for Marriage Equality (as presented by a married straight man)

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    Jun 02, 2011 4:16 AM GMT
    Long, but worth watching:

    http://youtu.be/Uj5eEhnFkgk
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    Jun 02, 2011 11:58 AM GMT
    theantijock saidWhat I thought missing was any call to action though there was plenty of justification. I don't know the speaker's audience though, so maybe it was not the forum for advocacy.
    It was just a policy/educational forum. I'm sure the plans for advocacy were being hatched during the lunch breaks.
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    Jun 02, 2011 1:19 PM GMT
    Either way, what he had to say is something I've been screaming for years.

    He's dead on!
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    Jun 02, 2011 11:22 PM GMT
    TropicalMark saidEither way, what he had to say is something I've been screaming for years.

    He's dead on!


    Yes and one has endured years of your abuse for not playing the victom as a homosexual, and seeing things your way.

    But lets just stay away from the term marriage, because thats so heterosexual, and as a Gold card gay, I am not a heterosexual, or a half brother a bisexual either. I want something to define us.

    Sure being a True Blue Aussie six generations born to Oz I have every right to bitch that new Australians in Oz get rights I don't. But lets stay away from the term Gay Marriage, that I will not support and will fight.

    have a nice day.
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    Jun 02, 2011 11:34 PM GMT
    I don't have to watch the clip to know what I've known since I've come out: unfortunately, and I already know that I'm gonna get the 'well, that's not my experience' replies...but the overwhelming majority of men who are interested in men (i.e. - gay) are finding absolutely nothing whether marriage is legal or not. Even in places where gay marriage is legal, the relationships and the behaviors that have to be established within the gay community (social skills, how to date, how to 'court', how to feel comfortable in one's own body as a gay man) are still at least a good 30+ years away.

    Most of us have met someone, yes. Some have had a long-term relationship or two. But when you really look objectively at the data that is out there, and stop looking in your own metro gay area - very few gay men are finding anyone to start a life with. We are without the skills to have those relationships because they require things that we didn't get a chance to learn while our non-gay peers were learning them in middle school. We didn't get to learn how to go out on a date, how to deal with that uncomfortable silence, how to be kind, respectful and realize that this man you are dating has feelings, he is someone's child, he deserves to be treated with respect - and many of us have found ourselves on one end of the reality that gay men treat each other pretty badly - we are still an anonymous group of people who don't care what happens after we get what we want; don't call and don't you dare acknowledge me on the street. For most of us that was our first lesson as to what being a gay man was like. It doesn't have to be that way, but society - and by that I mean that not only do non-gays have to work harder to accept us - but gay people have to work really hard at accepting EACH OTHER - or else this has been all for nothing. I have watched sadly my university - the place where the GLBT student group was so active a decade ago is now splitting the room with the women's groups and other social groups - there is no more gay student group because everyone is hiding online and not coming out. They won't go to the gay dances unless they know beforehand what the other guys look like. Which is sad - all this inclusive, gay-happy stuff that has been promoted over the last decade and this is the attitude - don't waste my time unless you look like a straight college athlete.

    I can't say a case for marriage until I see gay men trusting other gay men. Or I see gay men walking with other gay men without being selfish (what if so-and-so sees me?!). Pride is what happens when you love not only yourself but all those who have experienced the same things you have. Gay men spend so much time insisting they're 'nothing like other gay people' that I wonder why they bother coming out/going to pride in the first place.

    I guess we'll see where we are in 2041. Hopefully we'll evolve a little more by then.
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    Jun 02, 2011 11:47 PM GMT
    True_blue_aussie saidlets just stay away from the term marriage, because thats so heterosexual, and as a Gold card gay, I am not a heterosexual, or a half brother a bisexual either. [...] lets stay away from the term Gay Marriage, that I will not support and will fight.
    Your comment would be more helpful, and easier to take seriously, if you proposed an alternative term.
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    Jun 02, 2011 11:54 PM GMT
    WindsorOntarioCanada said...I can't say a case for marriage until I see gay men trusting other gay men...
    Your points may be fair, but I think we're talking about a different type of "case for gay marriage."

    The legal scholar in the video is making the legal case for marriage equality, specifically in the context of American law. He explains why gay men and women ought to have the option to get legally married.

    You seem to be talking about "the case for gays getting married" (which requires that option to be legal in the first place). The man in the video is not making this case. He's not telling gay people they should get married.

    So I'll reiterate, I think some of your points are valid, and worth exploring. But let's not confuse that with the question of whether it should be legal for gay people to marry or not.
  • groundcombat

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    Jun 03, 2011 12:12 AM GMT
    Brilliant.
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    Jun 03, 2011 12:31 AM GMT
    True_blue_aussie said
    TropicalMark saidEither way, what he had to say is something I've been screaming for years.

    He's dead on!


    Yes and one has endured years of your abuse for not playing the victom as a homosexual, and seeing things your way.

    But lets just stay away from the term marriage, because thats so heterosexual, and as a Gold card gay, I am not a heterosexual, or a half brother a bisexual either. I want something to define us.

    Sure being a True Blue Aussie six generations born to Oz I have every right to bitch that new Australians in Oz get rights I don't. But lets stay away from the term Gay Marriage, that I will not support and will fight.

    have a nice day.



    wtf? Isn't it kind of early there in Australia for cocktails, Patti?
  • wander2340

    Posts: 176

    Jun 03, 2011 12:51 AM GMT
    Excellent! Thank you for sharing!
  • tazzari

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    Jun 03, 2011 3:37 AM GMT
    "I can't say a case for marriage until I see gay men trusting other gay men. Or I see gay men walking with other gay men without being selfish (what if so-and-so sees me?!). Pride is what happens when you love not only yourself but all those who have experienced the same things you have. Gay men spend so much time insisting they're 'nothing like other gay people' that I wonder why they bother coming out/going to pride in the first place."

    You make legitimate points, but your experience seems to be miles from mine. I know three long-term gay couples here (Seattle area) who are trusting, unselfish, proud of who they are, and devoted to eachother. When my partner was alive, I would have added us to the list as well. Moreover, among all my gay friends, I see little or none of the selfishness you describe.

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    Jun 03, 2011 4:16 AM GMT
    theantijock saidI hope you will keep in mind when you write on the topic that we are not seeking rights to some separate gay marriage but that we are gay people demanding rights to the marriage every other human being gets to enjoy.
    That is a very good point. And you'll notice that both on the topic headline, and throughout my posts, the term I have used is "marriage equality," which I believe is the more appropriate one. I used the term "gay marriage" in quotes, as I was citing the previous poster, who wrote a long, digressive post on why he thinks gay men can't be married.
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    Jun 03, 2011 11:09 AM GMT
    theantijock saidYou are a good man. Yes. I did notice your prior proper use. I first thought you must be using somebody else's words there and page searched for another "gay marriage case" per your quotes which showed only yours. Just when I thought I could count on technology to proofread. Drat the luck!

    I see now your reference. My apologies. Originally I had just skimmed that post quickly, seeing that it was sort of, well, you are much more patient than I.
    Hah... Thanks. And I'm glad you liked the video. I have met Robert Levy personally, and he is a decent, principled man, and a brilliant mind when it comes to legal issues. He has written extensively about marriage equality.
  • Rowing_Ant

    Posts: 1504

    Jun 03, 2011 11:40 AM GMT
    [quote]

    But lets just stay away from the term marriage, because thats so heterosexual, and as a Gold card gay, I am not a heterosexual, or a half brother a bisexual either. I want something to define us.


    have a nice day.[/quote]

    WHAT THE FUCK IS YOUR PROBLEM WITH BISEXUAL PEOPLE?

    And what the fuck is a Gold Card Gay? You sound massively up yourself and proud of rejecting anything that could be vageuly considered 'Heterosexual' or a product of a heterosexual society. Get over yourself.
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    Jun 03, 2011 3:33 PM GMT
    Rowing_Ant saidAnd what the fuck is a Gold Card Gay?
    I was wondering the same thing.
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    Jun 14, 2011 7:11 PM GMT
    19c79 said
    Rowing_Ant saidAnd what the fuck is a Gold Card Gay?
    I was wondering the same thing.


    yeah I don't like the elitist tone of this term either, what is a "gold card gay"?
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    Jun 14, 2011 7:19 PM GMT
    jmnf89 said
    19c79 said
    Rowing_Ant saidAnd what the fuck is a Gold Card Gay?
    I was wondering the same thing.


    yeah I don't like the elitist tone of this term either, what is a "gold card gay"?
    Basically it's patticakes's way of trying to outgay everybody, but failing. So that elitist attitude isn't in your mind- it's really there.
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    Jun 14, 2011 10:29 PM GMT
    Bullwinklemoos saidBasically it's patticakes's way of trying to outgay everybody, but failing.
    HA! Yeah. Thing is... I'm not even sure what "outgaying" someone would be. Is it having had sex with women? I "lose points" for that? How silly.
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    Jun 14, 2011 10:39 PM GMT
    icon_smile.gif that was really good.
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    Jun 15, 2011 8:50 AM GMT
    19c79 said
    Rowing_Ant saidAnd what the fuck is a Gold Card Gay?
    I was wondering the same thing.


    I don't know either, but I want one.

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    Jun 15, 2011 10:31 AM GMT
    19c79 saidLong, but worth watching:

    http://youtu.be/Uj5eEhnFkgk



    icon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 15, 2011 11:17 AM GMT
    19c79 said
    Rowing_Ant saidAnd what the fuck is a Gold Card Gay?
    I was wondering the same thing.


    Mine's actually platinum. icon_razz.gif
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    Jun 15, 2011 12:35 PM GMT
    fuzzywuzzy said
    19c79 said
    Rowing_Ant saidAnd what the fuck is a Gold Card Gay?
    I was wondering the same thing.


    Mine's actually platinum. icon_razz.gif

    How did you get it? ;-)