Chivalry Vs. Making your partner just a figure head

• helios01
  
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  Jun 03, 2011 9:58 AM GMT

  I was watching "The Young Victoria" and i was feeling lonely bcuz i missed that feeling of love when i was with my ex... but that aside when they got to the part where Victoria felt that Albert should not take on half her duties, i got to thinking about one reason my ex gave me for his frustration.
  While growing up i was raised a gentleman (even though i turned out a lady lol). I was taught that as a MAN, i must always be a caballero and pay for myself and my date. If the girl (my date) ever payed i would be shamed and be a sad excuse for a man... It was ingrained in my way of being.... its just how i am. Now i would pay for lunch, dinner, and some of his debts (he bought stuff online and i payed it for him)
  He said he hated it and wanted to pay for thing(even though he was unemployed he would have to ask his parents for the money and i hated that!) He told me i made him feel useless and like i thought he could not hold his own. But to me it made my world crumble.....
  What is your guy's take on this issue? am i dead wrong? is chivalry dead? i am a lady and chivalry is what i grew up with.

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  Jun 03, 2011 1:03 PM GMT

  Dead wrong sorry. How is denying someone the opportunity to do something they want (e.g. pay their own way) chivalrous? Don't take it as a slight on you that he wants to be treated as an equal in the relationship. And (assuming that you are infact gay and not transgender) please stop calling yourself/your date a "lady". You're gay, there are two dudes, the straight paradigm (fraught with centuries of oppression) does not apply.

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  Jun 03, 2011 1:29 PM GMT

  Perhaps it's worth considering that chivalry also entails graciously allowing others to exercise their own sense of chivalry, which your BF was trying to do.
  
  

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• ursa_minor
  
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  Jun 03, 2011 1:36 PM GMT

  men, straight or not, have their egos - you need to respect that.
  
  ladies, well they love shopping, and love to be pampered.
  
  perhaps your ex was not the kind who submits just as easy as the next woman.

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  Jun 03, 2011 5:07 PM GMT

  
  This is fine in an equal relationship; he'll pay sometimes, then you, because you both can and with pride. He can't always pay and I'm sure feels a measure of shame for spending mom and dad's money...but that is his mom and dad, he can control the shame from taking from them, but you are his man and it is shameful, probably to a great measure, that you'd view him as charity case. As I heard on Dr. Phil and unlike most of his bs, some of it rings true: do whatever you can to distinguish your romantic relationship from a parent/child relationship.
  
  

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• helios01
  
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  Jun 03, 2011 5:26 PM GMT

  It is not like I never let him pay. He liked to buy expensive gifts when he had no job. I just hated that he had to ask for money from his parents. I understood he was the youngest in his family, but 19 and still expecting mom and dad to pay for your date was very uncomfortable. Plus i hate that uncomfortable feeling when the check comes "its ur turn to pay"..... idk... guess it just feels weird.
  I did not see his as a charity case. His family was better off than mine. But when your parents are paying for his tuition and 3 other tuitions and your mom is telling you to stop importing video games bcuz they need to save up for your tuition... i mean i was trying to help too. ugh just so confusing bcuz it felt so right...

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  Jun 03, 2011 5:33 PM GMT

  meninlove said Perhaps it's worth considering that chivalry also entails graciously allowing others to exercise their own sense of chivalry, which your BF was trying to do.
  
  

  
  
  haha so nicely put

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  Jun 03, 2011 6:35 PM GMT

  helios01 saidIt is not like I never let him pay. He liked to buy expensive gifts when he had no job. I just hated that he had to ask for money from his parents. I understood he was the youngest in his family, but 19 and still expecting mom and dad to pay for your date was very uncomfortable. Plus i hate that uncomfortable feeling when the check comes "its ur turn to pay"..... idk... guess it just feels weird.
  I did not see his as a charity case. His family was better off than mine. But when your parents are paying for his tuition and 3 other tuitions and your mom is telling you to stop importing video games bcuz they need to save up for your tuition... i mean i was trying to help too. ugh just so confusing bcuz it felt so right...

  
  
  Guilt, discomfort , and disapproval should not be the hallmarks of any relationship or dominate dialogue about said relationship. You feel sad about it, but this guy probably feels like he's been freed from scrutiny, your scrutiny. That is no way to make a guy feel. You may not have seen him as a "charity case", but you did, a moral charity case. You may have liked when he bought expensive gifts, but you didn't like it because you disapproved of it. Sounds like besides his employmentitus, you guys had fun and as you said, his parents are well off (don't worry about how much they spend on him), you let motor thinking sap the FUN out of this relationship.You are blaming this guy and watching movies about queens and reminiscing; that's your problem, don't lord over your next boyfriend..
  
  ......................
  
  

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  Jun 03, 2011 6:53 PM GMT

  SPANKING NOT OVER, here's the one I used to set, stupid who I'm not with anymore, straight about this very issue. Couldn't get through to him and then he heard this and he cried like a baby, which wasn't enough.
  
  
  ......................
  
  

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  Jun 03, 2011 7:25 PM GMT

  OMG GG not Karen Carpenter; our song would have to be "make belive it's your first time!, and I'll make believe it's mine."
  
  I was very independent as a wee child whenever we went into town and I had some change. I would slip away to the pool hall, and play the Jukebox, just to hear Karen Carpenter sing; Billy don't be a hero was a hit at that time too; albeit not by the carpenters.

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• stratavos
  
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  Jun 03, 2011 7:29 PM GMT

  chivlary isn't dead, but you need to allow turn taking with it if you are going to use it at all, or use it sparingly (once every other week or so).

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  Jun 03, 2011 7:47 PM GMT

  
  

  True_blue_aussie saidOMG GG not Karen Carpenter; our song would have to be "make belive it's your first time!, and I'll make believe it's mine."
  

  
  
  I thought our song was "We've only just begun." Both titles have a passing sexual undertone.

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  Jun 03, 2011 7:53 PM GMT

  GuiltyGear said
  

  True_blue_aussie saidOMG GG not Karen Carpenter; our song would have to be "make belive it's your first time!, and I'll make believe it's mine."
  

  
  
  I thought our song was "We've only just begun." Both titles have a passing sexual undertone.

  
  
  matey they work hand in hand, well together. Just like Abba's One of us, and the winner takes it all.

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  Jun 03, 2011 8:08 PM GMT

  Just remember the only way, Was Victoria's way. She was very manipulating and controlling; just like her Mother.

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• helios01
  
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  Jun 03, 2011 8:10 PM GMT

  I needed a different point of view and i got it... I was too involved in the wreck to see the damage.... I Guess i have a lot to change and fix about myself before i get into a new relationship... Thanx for the input guys ^-^
  I did not mean to make him feel so. I was taught that what i was doing was the right thing... guess the rules cant be the same for all couples... meh... imma make me some waffles to cheer me up lol....
  
  If i was manipulating i think i got it from my mother too.... 0-0.... just the thign i wanted to prevent.... i never wanted to be controlling.... but i have a problem with this too cuz he said i needed to be more assertive... or is that different from manipulative?

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  Jun 03, 2011 9:36 PM GMT

  
  
  It's the difference between nagging and motivating. Motivating him would be actually letting him pay for things so he could feel what its like to provide and realize more what it takes to provide....getting a job. He'd also get a better idea of how much money it takes to provide this great feeling. On the days he sees you pay, he's seeing you more as a role model and not a dictator. You have to trust in his morals and intelligence: he knows what you and his parents do for him, he knows the moral landscape associated with not paying, and he knows he can't be supported by other people forever. Now, if he didn't know and didn't want to know or improve, you wouldn't tell him, you'd leave him. It's ok, we learn about relationships and ourselves as we go. When they raise us, our parents give us a bountiful mind garden to assist us as an adult. But, it all can't be used or grows best in life's given environments and some of it are weeds. We have to garden, prune, and take inventory of the garden, to get the most use out it (as mom and dad intended), and to keep it from becoming over grown and strangling us.
  

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• helios01
  
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  Jun 04, 2011 9:14 AM GMT

  idk.... meh.... i gotta change lol
  I feel liek i should apologize but he is with sum1 else so ill do it symbolically by sacrificing a chicken..... jk lol... but thanx for the insight... i just expected the rules to be the same... i mean it worked for my uncle and his ex wife

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  Jun 04, 2011 9:52 AM GMT

  
  

  helios01 saidi mean it worked for my uncle and his ex wife

  
  
  Good grief, LOL. The rules are different for every couple.
  
  

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• helios01
  
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  Jun 04, 2011 10:03 AM GMT

  well its hard when that is what you have been taught your whole life as the proper way to behave.... i am judged by my whole family bcuz i am the oldest of the youngest generation on both sides of the family... >_<
  Hope i can change bcuz i dont want to push sum1 i love away for stupid reasons that i could have avoided :/

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  Jun 04, 2011 10:21 AM GMT

  
  Dude, if I followed my family's customs; I'd be in prison or worse, not kidding you. Customs and traditions are great, but no one of your aunties and uncles were gay. You're gonna have to learn from life on this one. Guys may evil eye me for this, but if anything, take what you learned from the patriarchs of your family and reverse it, since you date guys. If YOUR AUNT insisted on always paying for YOUR UNCLE, what would that have been like?
  
  .................................................
  
  but I feel preachy now. I think I opened some windows you didn't know were there. Being right is cold comfort, bro when everything has imploded.
  
  
  

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  Jun 04, 2011 11:02 AM GMT

  Chivalry is dead and for good reason.
  
  Having respect for your partner is a lot more significant than holding the door open for them and paying for dinner.
  
  Chivalry is a nice idea but it never really worked for real relationships, only political and social marriages. Hence why you used the example of Queen Victoria. It wasn't real in the sense that our relationships are real.

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• helios01
  
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  Jun 04, 2011 11:16 AM GMT

  adam228 saidChivalry is dead and for good reason.
  
  Having respect for your partner is a lot more significant than holding the door open for them and paying for dinner.
  
  Chivalry is a nice idea but it never really worked for real relationships, only political and social marriages. Hence why you used the example of Queen Victoria. It wasn't real in the sense that our relationships are real.

  
  
  dont say that it depresses me to think i have to be the queen to get a guy to be nice and gentlemanly lol.... maybe i can marry prince harry and hope he takes the throne making me the queen of england lol.... i understand your point....
  
  my world is crumbling b4 my very eyes ..... 0-0

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  Jun 04, 2011 11:58 AM GMT

  You can still be a wonderful partner, that is caring and respectful. People are going to like that a lot more than some rather empty gestures. You can show them you are a good person without following some rules from the 17th century

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• HndsmKansan
  
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  Jun 04, 2011 12:03 PM GMT

  A think the "chilvalry" idea is nice, but you don't live in the "Victorian era", you live in a "gay era"...LOL.
  
  My partner and I take turns paying, and try and make it fair. It sounds like
  you are a very sensitive about "what's right" and kudos to you for that.
  I would encourage you to alter your approach a bit and try and be more realistic.

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• helios01
  
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  Jun 07, 2011 7:54 AM GMT

  thanks.... i still have a lot to learn.... i am allowed to make mistakes.... but did this one cost me something great? oh well maybe sum1 better will come

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