Why try to reach perfection? Is it worth it?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 05, 2011 6:59 AM GMT
    This might be written out of frustration of dating lately but here it goes.

    We are all on here because we love the look of the beautiful male anatomy in its finest form. Me personally I think some of the physiques on RJ are the most beautiful Ive ever seen. The devotion & dedication it takes to achieve this look is respectful & admiring obviously.

    But why do we do it? For what? Whats the motivation?

    To be attractive & other men will want us? Sure, sex is great but once its over & the one night stand is gone is it worth all the work in the gym?

    If we are one of the lucky ones and have a relationship, even though you may be hot the sex dies in the relationship, you cheat on each other or one of you does because its never good enough.

    Where does getting to the point of "adonis" get us? Does it increase our self worth? Our contribution to the world? Please, we all want to look good so we can get laid. Period, plain & simple.

    I see beautiful men on here in their 30s, 40s, & 50s living in huge awesome cities and still cant find anyone to date. Is it that no one is good enough for us? Are we all seeking the "perfect" man by trying everyday ourselves to become the "perfect" man with the "perfect" body? So where does it get us & whats the reward for it all?

    Its funny because the men we want, dont want us. The men that want us, we dont want. So continues the circle of "gay" life. It drives me fucking nuts sometimes.

    Am I the only one that sees this? Or ever felt this way?

    I try to be positive, but to be honest, just getting out of a relationship & getting back in all this mess makes me want to crawl in a hole sometimes & never come out. If this is all we have to look forward to instead of seeking love, endurance & passion then its all for nothing.

    Sorry for the negative post. You wont get many from me but im getting a little sick of the dating game already, as you can tell, lmao.

    Go ahead, rip me to shreds boys. Im ready for my thrashing.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 05, 2011 8:42 AM GMT
    "Its funny because the men we want, dont want us. The men that want us, we dont want."

    This is a universal theme that exists in the straight world too. EVERYONE experiences this or has experienced this at some point in their life. So don't let it frustrate you too much. All I can really say is that there are lots of decent guys out there that are looking for more than a pretty face and a perfect body. It's just a matter of finding them. Story of my everyone's life. icon_wink.gif
  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Jun 05, 2011 9:47 AM GMT
    "But why do we do it? For what? Whats the motivation?"
    ________________________________________________
    We want to feel wanted.
  • starboard5

    Posts: 969

    Jun 05, 2011 1:12 PM GMT
    If someone can achieve eye-candydome through the gym, more power to them. But the real reason you work out is because you enjoy it for its own sake, for the way it makes you feel and for the mental discipline and focus it cultivates. It strengthens the mind/body connection, and that serves you in all aspects of your life.

    I understand what you're talking about, but don't let that frustration spoil something else that's good in your life. Sorry if I'm off thread.
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Jun 05, 2011 1:19 PM GMT
    I really do it for me.. to be the best person I can, but it's a balance... fitness, self improvement, the enjoyment of life and health (and I emphasize the last)... if you can't enjoy your efforts and be realistic about it, why do it?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 05, 2011 2:37 PM GMT
    xrichx said"Its funny because the men we want, dont want us. The men that want us, we dont want."

    This is a universal theme that exists in the straight world too. EVERYONE experiences this or has experienced this at some point in their life. So don't let it frustrate you too much. All I can really say is that there are lots of decent guys out there that are looking for more than a pretty face and a perfect body. It's just a matter of finding them. Story of my everyone's life. icon_wink.gif

    I think that also has to do with a lack of self-confidence. If a guy thinks that we are hot, we immediately wonder what is wrong with him.

    OK, this will get me shredded to bits, but I think that a six-pack doesn't make sex any better (except for muscle-worshippers, of course). As long as someone is reasonably fit, it is much more important whether he is on the same wave-length than whether he is a muscle demigod.






  • alphatop

    Posts: 1955

    Jun 05, 2011 2:40 PM GMT
    HndsmKansan saidI really do it for me.. to be the best person I can, but it's a balance... fitness, self improvement, the enjoyment of life and health (and I emphasize the last)... if you can't enjoy your efforts and be realistic about it, why do it?


    You speak wisely. I think tha self-improvement is the key. The beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 05, 2011 2:42 PM GMT

    Looks fade...true INNER beauty remains. Lovely to look at, delightful to hold...but it's shallow.
  • alphatop

    Posts: 1955

    Jun 05, 2011 2:43 PM GMT
    Friendsrbetter said
    Looks fade...true INNER beauty remains. Lovely to look at, delightful to hold...but it's shallow.


    Indeed.+1.
  • Bunjamon

    Posts: 3161

    Jun 05, 2011 3:45 PM GMT
    HndsmKansan saidI really do it for me.. to be the best person I can, but it's a balance... fitness, self improvement, the enjoyment of life and health (and I emphasize the last)... if you can't enjoy your efforts and be realistic about it, why do it?


    This. I don't go to the gym for other people, I go for me. I don't go to the gym to have one night stands with people who might find me attractive because I go to the gym, but it feels like when someone expresses an interest in you.


    To the OP:

    Most of us will never be an "Adonis" when it comes to our bodies. Just as most scholars will never be Einstein, does that mean no one should study? It's about being who you want to be and trying your best.

    Being negative about dating and relationships repels the good people from you. So turn that frown upside down and get out there!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 05, 2011 3:55 PM GMT
    Try "not-dating". Join a rock climbing group, book club, volunteer at an organization, take an improv acting class. Think of something you like to do. Think of something that's out of the box. The more active you are, the more interactions you have in real life.

    I've had a harder time trying to date via online means, because men are self-sorting. We often put out a specific image, persona and set of criteria to intentionally filter out anyone that doesn't meet our ideals. So the same here on RealJock, and on other websites. There's a constant influx of new website members, and an out flow of old ones. Thus, the pool of people to choose from and filter through is always changing. Self-sorting helps better chances of getting our ideal.

    BUT, if you were to meet that same person throughout the course of your daily life, that self-sorting filter won't be up. If it is, it'll be low or weak. They'll be able to see you as you are, and not what they imagine you to be. Then you can get through to them past just the physical.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 05, 2011 3:57 PM GMT
    Redbull, I think the key statement in your post is that you recently got out of a relationship and are trying to date again. Entering the dating pool is very frustrating and it takes a while to get acclimated. There are many game players out there, as well as guys who are already in a relationship or are married. There are guys just looking to hook up, and flakey guys who will make a date with you and then not show up, offering some kind of excuse the next day (if they even bother to contact you).

    However, there are many great men out there as well, but they are harder to find - they're not going to be in the obvious places. There are many long-term couples in happy relationships, but they aren't as easy to find either.

    You hear more unhappy people complaining about not finding a partner because the happy people don't complain (and from my experience, if they talk about being in a happy relationship, people get annoyed).

    Building a lifetime together takes a lot of work, and there are many ups and downs along the way. There are days my partner drives me crazy (and days I drive him completely insane), yet our love and deep respect for each other remain constant.

    The reason I work out now is because I want to live as long as I possibly can, and be as healthy as I can. I don't look the same way I did when I was in my 20s and 30s, but I enjoy life a hell of a lot more than I did back then.

    I appreciate the grey hair, the lines in my forehead, the wrinkles around my eyes, the middle-age spread and everything else because I survived when many of my friends and relatives didn't. Each day, I am able to care less about how I look and focus on how I feel.

    I just had a physical, and it was a wonderful feeling getting a clean bill of health from my doctor. I try to take care of myself so I can be there for my partner, my family, my friends, and now my puppy as well. I don't want to miss a thing in life.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 05, 2011 3:59 PM GMT
    SineOfChange saidTry "not-dating". Join a rock climbing group, book club, volunteer at an organization, take an improv acting class. Think of something you like to do. Think of something that's out of the box. The more active you are, the more interactions you have in real life.

    I've had a harder time trying to date via online means, because men are self-sorting. We often put out a specific image, persona and set of criteria to intentionally filter out anyone that doesn't meet our ideals. So the same here on RealJock, and on other websites. There's a constant influx of new website members, and an out flow of old ones. Thus, the pool of people to choose from and filter through is always changing. Self-sorting helps better chances of getting our ideal.

    BUT, if you were to meet that same person throughout the course of your daily life, that self-sorting filter won't be up. If it is, it'll be low or weak. They'll be able to see you as you are, and not what they imagine you to be. Then you can get through to them past just the physical.


    Eloquently stated - a lot of wisdom in those two paragraphs.
  • squash4dave

    Posts: 180

    Jun 05, 2011 4:00 PM GMT
    I do it to look my best, sure. But, for me, I mainly do it to stay alive and healthy. Almost 23 years poz, and it's practically a full time job. With all the negative effect my meds have had on me, I know that I wouldn't be here with doing what I do.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 05, 2011 4:04 PM GMT
    Bunjamon said
    HndsmKansan saidI really do it for me.. to be the best person I can, but it's a balance... fitness, self improvement, the enjoyment of life and health (and I emphasize the last)... if you can't enjoy your efforts and be realistic about it, why do it?


    This. I don't go to the gym for other people, I go for me. I don't go to the gym to have one night stands with people who might find me attractive because I go to the gym, but it feels like when someone expresses an interest in you.


    To the OP:

    Most of us will never be an "Adonis" when it comes to our bodies. Just as most scholars will never be Einstein, does that mean no one should study? It's about being who you want to be and trying your best.

    Being negative about dating and relationships repels the good people from you. So turn that frown upside down and get out there!


    I like the advices from these two guys. I also think that the way you FEEL about yourself is way more important than how other people see you. They're not living your life after all. icon_smile.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 05, 2011 4:10 PM GMT
    lol, redbull, I'm not going to give you any kind of thrashing. I think you deserve the opposite; a great big hug.

    I think, though, that you have to reconsider this line,

    "We are all on here because we love the look of the beautiful male anatomy in its finest form."

    -Doug

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 05, 2011 4:34 PM GMT
    Kate Moss says, 'Nothing tastes as good as skinny feels' and it's comparable for guys being buff and feeling good about themselves.
  • kuroshiro

    Posts: 786

    Jun 05, 2011 4:35 PM GMT
    I can relate for chasing the ever illusive "Adonis body". But, for me at least, it was a product of the environment I grew up in. My mother had those hunk of the month calendars all over the house and they really made me feel poorly about myself, so I just ate and ate and ate. I moved out and started a slow journey to try and better myself and have really only shed everything after two years of hard work and discipline.

    Granted, I still want to be like those people because I feel that it'll stand me out above the rest, but regardless of that and even with the body I have now, I still find that people just want to have sex with me and forget everything else about me. I've had a sad pattern of people in the past that have had a big interest in me, but after it led us to the bedroom they forgot everything else about me and wanted only that. It really sucked.

    I agree though that inner beauty counts more as outer beauty but this is a double sided coin. On one side how can someone who respects themselves on the outside not respect it on the inside as well as how can someone respect themselves on the inside but not the outside. *shrug*

    Nonetheless, it's the law of relationships that comes into play: opposites attract. Sometimes in both mind and body.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 05, 2011 4:41 PM GMT
    I understand about the self improvement benefits from being & feeling our best. Just taking it a step further makes me feel like im the mouse in the cage running on the spin wheel, lol! Wtf?! I cant grow old & be the old gay with lots of cats because I hate cats, lol!

    Alot of good advice guys & thx. It just seems the good guys are over looked if you dont have the perfect body. If you do have one then thats what you attract also. I feel like being one of the "good" guys gets me nowhere.

    It is hard getting used to dating again, I hate it actually, I have to make myself do it. Time to stop my whining, & start my grinning I guess. Thx for letting me vent.

    My ex was a beautifully built man & would complain about guys wanting him just for his body & nothing else. He said he knew I was the only person that probably loved him for who he was on the inside but it obviously wasnt enough.

    Looks can attract us to someone but when is love enough, why arent we ever satisfied with ourselves or someone else? I dont understand it. I know I can be. Ive always been very monogamous/relationship oriented. I feel like the only fish swimming in a big open sea sometimes though.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 05, 2011 4:42 PM GMT
    although there are many different related topics in this thread, i'll just keep to the original question.

    perhaps you should redefine 'perfection' not as an ultimate destination, but rather the journey to get there. so, to use a metaphor, 'perfection' is the horizon. you keep on walking toward it, but can never reach it. ever. this can be very frustrating, until you look behind you and see how far you have actually traveled. and how you are now at a place much different from when you started. to continue walking is all the perfection you need, because you'll be in a different place than when you started when you finally pass.

    and with death, the metaphor changes. i'll let you know how as soon as i die and experience it for myself.

    but i will say, i totally agree on your circle of gay life conundrum: the men we want, don't want us. the ones that want us, we don't want. if there was one more party to the mix, we'd have our very our jean-paul sartre play. but since i can't really speak for anyone else, I would have my very own jean-paul sartre play, since i am hopelessly entangled in this 'gay circle of life'.

    fuck it.

    i want a pancake now.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 05, 2011 5:16 PM GMT
    Cogitor saidperhaps you should redefine 'perfection' not as an ultimate destination, but rather the journey to get there. so, to use a metaphor, 'perfection' is the horizon. you keep on walking toward it, but can never reach it. ever. this can be very frustrating, until you look behind you and see how far you have actually traveled. and how you are now at a place much different from when you started. to continue walking is all the perfection you need, because you'll be in a different place than when you started when you finally pass.


    THIS.

    I think that reflection and self-awareness are intrinsic components when thinking about "perfection." Perfection is more so about the journey versus the goal of having the "perfect" body, "perfect" relationship, "perfect" life, etc. In my opinion, it's important to remember that while receiving external commentary (compliments, amazing sex with "perfect" men, etc.) about how our journey is going can make us feel good, all of the external comments in the world are worthless relative to how we feel about ourselves. If you don't love yourself regardless of your stage in the journey, how can you expect anyone else to love you?

    Personal anecdote ... In January, I had a relationship end which, at the time, completely broke my spirit, my mind, etc. I was completely gutted, shattered, and pretty damn fucked up. I had no clue how I was going to rebuild my life. *cue the violins and something a la Verdi*

    However, *shrug*, it gave me a chance to re-evaluate my life and I made some changes that have helped reshape my focus. Instead of striving to have the perfect life with the perfect guy, I shifted my mindset regarding perfection. While my perspective is far from perfect (no pun intended), it's helped me become happy with enjoying the journey instead of staying fixated on where I want to be. At some point, you have to look at your journey, celebrate what you've accomplished, and recharge your batteries for future journeys.

    Furthermore, one can't spend their entire life ardently pushing towards a goal without reflection. It's important to take a few moments and realize that perfection wasn't the "goal" all along, it is about self-improvement and becoming be a better person ... whether that person is "perfect" is a moot point. I think that once one's definition of "perfection" is given proper perspective, things will fall into place. However, pursuing a rat race for this intangible "perfect" goal will lead you to frustration and aggravation.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 06, 2011 2:54 PM GMT
    Redbull,

    I was thinking a little more about what you wrote:

    "I see beautiful men on here in their 30s, 40s, & 50s living in huge awesome cities and still cant find anyone to date."

    One thing to take into consideration and part of what I noted earlier, is that people aren't going to post forum topics such as:

    - Why am I so happy?
    - My partner is really perfect and I couldn't ask for more, how about you?
    - What can I do to show my partner how much I love him?
    - I don't take my husband for granted, is that wrong?
    - My boyfriend is really well-adjusted and treats me well. Is that okay?
    - I suspect my boyfriend is faithful; is it okay that I don't spy on him?

    You get the point....

    It seems like everyone is unhappy and single because people are going to ask for advice if they are struggling.

    In my off-line life I try to hang around with happy couples. There's nothing worse than going out on a double date and the other couple makes snide comments to each other the whole time. I try to learn from the successful couples to see what they do right (and they've made me a better partner by learning from them).
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 06, 2011 3:23 PM GMT
    redbull saidIts funny because the men we want, dont want us. The men that want us, we dont want. So continues the circle of "gay" life. It drives me fucking nuts sometimes.


    I do not want anyone, anyone who really wants me,
    Every one that I desire, wants to be with someone else. . .
    I find it so amusing.
    Isn't that the way it goes?
    I'm a blip on someones radar
    They don't even catch my eye
    I want what I haven't got, even if it kills me trying.

    I want her, she wants him, he wants me, I give in.
    I want her, I want him, I don't want anything.
    I started questioning, the rules of coupling.
    This strip is mobius, it's never ending

    Love and attraction.
    It's like sex and passion.
    It's two ends of a spectrum.
    Are you a friend or a lover?
    Now pick one or the other.


    I am working out primarily for me, because I have always wanted to have a muscular well-built body, as long as I can remember really. I can remember being around 7 and seeing a muscle magazine and thinking "I wish I looked like that."

    Now, because for most of my life I've lacked motivation it really takes to get a great physique, I'm way behind where my 7-year-old self thought I'd be at this point, but I am determined that I will get there.

    I don't think I will ever achieve perfection, but I hope I will reach a stage where I am happy with my body. You ask what the reward for it is - I think it's a reward in and of itself! I want to be able to look back when I am old and think "Damn, I was fiiiiine!" hahahaha! It's not about getting laid for me, it's just about feeling satisfied that I have put time and effort into something that makes me feel good.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jun 06, 2011 3:50 PM GMT
    Here's one of the quotes that I've taken to heart recently as I make my way through graduate school while simultaneously keeping physically healthy...

    "We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not only because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too." -John F Kennedy, 1962
  • Skyeboy

    Posts: 28

    Jun 06, 2011 4:04 PM GMT
    Perfection is an unrealistic goal. But that does not mean one shouldn't try for it. You have to keep in mind you will never reach perfect. The goal should be to continue to better yourself. As for why, for yourself. It's all moot if you're doing it for someone else other than yourself. Aim for "Adonis" because you want it, not because it's what you think someone else is looking for. If you aren't true to yourself, it will shine through anything you do and others will be able to see it. It is a deterrent for others. It is frustrating to oneself. Do what you need to make yourself happy. All other things fall into place after that icon_smile.gif