Officials: Half of US military force trained on gay ban repeal, no problems

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    Jun 06, 2011 11:55 PM GMT
    Despite what the US right-wing and Christian fundamentalists predicted, it's all going smoothly and without any adverse impact.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43301677/ns/us_news-life/
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    Jun 07, 2011 12:03 AM GMT
    Art_Deco saidDespite what the US right-wing and Christian fundamentalists predicted, it's all going smoothly and without any adverse impact.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43301677/ns/us_news-life/


    The impression I get from soldiers and airmen and Marines I talk to on a regular basis ranges from mostly quiet resignation, to some irritation over it, to open welcome.

    Of these, I am slightly surprised that more than a few senior (field grade mostly) officers are actually welcoming of the repeal of DADT. Some of these guys are 20-30 year veterans who were around when DADT was launched, and before during the homo-hunting era where homosexual activity was an instant ticket to either a Section 8 discharge or Discharge Under Less than Honorable Conditions.

    The vast majority of the military guys I know and/or work with are quietly tolerant, knowing that they must subject whatever personal opinions they have about the matter to the Constitution, the laws of this nation, and the regulations of their respective services and the UCMJ. The mission comes first.

    There may be some isolated cases of non-compliance, but if these cases are handled swiftly and decisively by responsible commanders, I'm sure things will move in the right direction overall.
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    Jun 07, 2011 1:57 AM GMT
    alphatrigger said
    Art_Deco saidDespite what the US right-wing and Christian fundamentalists predicted, it's all going smoothly and without any adverse impact.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43301677/ns/us_news-life/


    The impression I get from soldiers and airmen and Marines I talk to on a regular basis ranges from mostly quiet resignation, to some irritation over it, to open welcome.

    Of these, I am slightly surprised that more than a few senior (field grade mostly) officers are actually welcoming of the repeal of DADT. Some of these guys are 20-30 year veterans who were around when DADT was launched, and before during the homo-hunting era where homosexual activity was an instant ticket to either a Section 8 discharge or Discharge Under Less than Honorable Conditions.

    The vast majority of the military guys I know and/or work with are quietly tolerant, knowing that they must subject whatever personal opinions they have about the matter to the Constitution, the laws of this nation, and the regulations of their respective services and the UCMJ. The mission comes first.

    There may be some isolated cases of non-compliance, but if these cases are handled swiftly and decisively by responsible commanders, I'm sure things will move in the right direction overall.
    Bingo.. and many senior Officers are fully aware of the caliber of gay service people. And they want them.
  • tyler_helm

    Posts: 299

    Jun 07, 2011 2:25 AM GMT
    Art_Deco saidDespite what the US right-wing and Christian fundamentalists predicted, it's all going smoothly and without any adverse impact.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43301677/ns/us_news-life/


    Let's not draw more people into the arguement than need to be there. There were Gays in the military before DADT. They were successful before and they well be even more successful now.

    Celebrate the victories and not point fingers
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    Jun 07, 2011 3:24 AM GMT
    tyler_helm said
    Art_Deco saidDespite what the US right-wing and Christian fundamentalists predicted, it's all going smoothly and without any adverse impact.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43301677/ns/us_news-life/

    Let's not draw more people into the arguement than need to be there. There were Gays in the military before DADT. They were successful before and they well be even more successful now.

    Celebrate the victories and not point fingers.

    Except that's an important part of this article, that you want ignored. Contained in its very first sentence:

    "...and so far there has been none of the turmoil or dire consequences predicted by opponents..." The story is that repeal of DADT is working well, despite the critics who claimed otherwise.

    And yes, there were gays in the military before DADT. They got dishonorable discharges, some were given military jail terms, and were scorned and even beaten by their fellow military.

    Now they'll be able to serve openly & honorably, and not be forced out for being gay or put into military prison. If you can't realize that's a significant change in policy, that's still opposed by the groups I mentioned, then either you have your head in the sand, or you represent one or both of those groups yourself.
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    Jun 07, 2011 8:23 PM GMT
    It was all just a bunch of baseless fear prompted by religious fundamentalists.
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    Jun 07, 2011 8:25 PM GMT
    mocktwinkie saidIt was all just a bunch of baseless fear prompted by religious fundamentalists.

    What was baseless fear? You are not clear.
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    Jun 07, 2011 8:27 PM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    mocktwinkie saidIt was all just a bunch of baseless fear prompted by religious fundamentalists.

    What was baseless fear? You are not clear.


    That there would be an adverse impact to be had. It was all just fear-mongering based on pure hate with no good reason why repealing DADT would result in such effects.
  • rnch

    Posts: 11524

    Jun 07, 2011 8:29 PM GMT
    [quote][cite]Art_Deco said.....
    And yes, there were gays in the military before DADT. They got dishonorable discharges, some were given military jail terms, and were scorned and even beaten by their fellow military.

    Now they'll be able to serve openly & honorably, and not be forced out for being gay or put into military prison. If you can't realize that's a significant change in policy, that's still opposed by the groups I mentioned, then either you have your head in the sand, or you represent one or both of those groups yourself.[/quote]
  • hawkeye7

    Posts: 565

    Jun 07, 2011 8:48 PM GMT
    I think every gay man (leisians too) should read "Conduct Unbecomming" before we give him his/her card. He or she just needs to know where we have come from.

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    Jun 08, 2011 8:55 AM GMT
    May we suggest and not with any help from you, as you spent your whole time in the army promoting there was something wrong with homosexuality, and now you feel no pride in your own flag/banner, the bisexual one.

    One only ever sees you dump on the right for actions you spent much of your life duplicating yourself; shame, shame, shame.
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    Jun 09, 2011 1:58 AM GMT
    True_blue_aussie saidMay we suggest and not with any help from you, as you spent your whole time in the army promoting there was something wrong with homosexuality, and now you feel no pride in your own flag/banner, the bisexual one.

    One only ever sees you dump on the right for actions you spent much of your life duplicating yourself; shame, shame, shame.


    Here you go again with this 'real gay' shit. Are you really this stupid or is it just an act? Because someone before coming out may have had sex with women does not make them a bisexual. A homosexual is someone that is attracted to someone of the same sex, even if they may have had sex with the opposite sex before admitting this to himself. A bisexual is someone attracted to people of both genders. Who you have had sex with in the past does not determine your sexual orientation. Dumb ass. Gold card declined!
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    Jun 12, 2011 7:20 AM GMT
    mocktwinkie said
    Art_Deco said
    mocktwinkie saidIt was all just a bunch of baseless fear prompted by religious fundamentalists.

    What was baseless fear? You are not clear.

    That there would be an adverse impact to be had. It was all just fear-mongering based on pure hate with no good reason why repealing DADT would result in such effects.

    I agree. The opposition to gays in the military by fundamentalist Christian groups is based on their own projected prejudices, not the actual situation in the ranks.
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    Jun 12, 2011 7:24 AM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    Now they'll be able to serve openly & honorably


    HA! dude...you are living in a fantasy world..and im not talking out of my ass or disagreeing with you just cuz i dont like 98% of what you say.
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    Jun 12, 2011 7:57 AM GMT
    True_blue_aussie saidMay we suggest and not with any help from you, as you spent your whole time in the army promoting there was something wrong with homosexuality, and now you feel no pride in your own flag/banner, the bisexual one.

    One only ever sees you dump on the right for actions you spent much of your life duplicating yourself; shame, shame, shame.

    Please relate your own time in military uniform. And how do you know what I did? I took care of all the soldiers under my command equally, including the gay & lesbian, and was never prejudiced against them (and my gaydar could pick them out in a flash). Actually, few US officers were bigoted against gays in my time.

    Before you speak, you might try to educate yourself about these things. As usual, you only manage to demonstrate your appalling ignorance, especially about things relating to the United States.
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    Jun 12, 2011 8:04 AM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    True_blue_aussie saidMay we suggest and not with any help from you, as you spent your whole time in the army promoting there was something wrong with homosexuality, and now you feel no pride in your own flag/banner, the bisexual one.

    One only ever sees you dump on the right for actions you spent much of your life duplicating yourself; shame, shame, shame.

    Please relate your own time in military uniform. And how do you know what I did? I took care of all the soldiers under my command equally, including the gay & lesbian, and was never prejudiced against them (and my gaydar could pick them out in a flash). Actually, few US officers were bigoted against gays in my time.

    Before you speak, you might try to educate yourself about these things. As usual, you only manage to demonstrate your appalling ignorance, especially about things relating to the United States.


    Don't pay attention to what that low life scumbag piece of shit "true blue assie" says. His opinion is equal to his self worth, which is zero.
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    Jun 12, 2011 10:37 AM GMT
    SDGMAN said
    Art_Deco said
    True_blue_aussie saidMay we suggest and not with any help from you, as you spent your whole time in the army promoting there was something wrong with homosexuality, and now you feel no pride in your own flag/banner, the bisexual one.

    One only ever sees you dump on the right for actions you spent much of your life duplicating yourself; shame, shame, shame.

    Please relate your own time in military uniform. And how do you know what I did? I took care of all the soldiers under my command equally, including the gay & lesbian, and was never prejudiced against them (and my gaydar could pick them out in a flash). Actually, few US officers were bigoted against gays in my time.

    Before you speak, you might try to educate yourself about these things. As usual, you only manage to demonstrate your appalling ignorance, especially about things relating to the United States.


    Don't pay attention to what that low life scumbag piece of shit "true blue assie" says. His opinion is equal to his self worth, which is zero.


    Seems to one you equate my alleged self worth to your very own Sunny Jim. One is not responcible for your many issues nor can one carry your luggage either.

    Nor can one as a homosexual who has never lived a life in the closet and who stood by the gay community during the gay plague era, when so many hid and did nothing or died. Can respect a man who spent most of his life promoting there was something wrong with homosexuality, and something dirty and beneath him; AD own words. Yet blames everyone, even I, for his actions, and now he wants to be seen as a gay man, ignoring the very long trail of damage behind him. Yet attacking thos who have done much the same or even less than he himself.

    How can a self respecting homosexual behold any respect for a half brother like AD; red? After living most of his life promoting there is something wrong with homosexuality; and using women in the way he did too.

    Oh since you are only new here you missed out on ther beginning when one endured years of abuse from AD, then red, where he tryed to repress I a Gold card gay, something he will never ever qualify to be because of his own actions. On gay issues, he who spent most of his life promoting there was something wrong with it.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Jun 12, 2011 10:46 AM GMT
    Most everyone has no idea how frustrating it is to defend your equal rights in the 2nd person.

    Another thing that annoys me is that the Army training has the Chaplain facilitating the senior leader training before it gets down to the Soldiers. It's a legal issue, not a religious issue!
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19133

    Jun 12, 2011 5:56 PM GMT
    Art_Deco saidDespite what the US right-wing and Christian fundamentalists predicted, it's all going smoothly and without any adverse impact.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43301677/ns/us_news-life/



    This is great news, but I'm not surprised. It was pretty much a no-brainer that once this was passed it would be smooth sailing


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    Jun 12, 2011 6:09 PM GMT
    obviously enlistment isn't going to go down. the economy is shit. obviously there is no 'rush for the door'...that isnt really an option. this article is kind of fucking annoying. nothing has actually happened yet. and as far as i know, people are still signing a separation act that asks them if they are or have ever participated in homosexual acts. i mean the weirdest thing about DADT is the military straight up asks you. you sign something saying you are heterosexual.
    im glad this is gone..even though it isnt officially gone yet..but the idea that anyone thinks its a good idea to be openly gay in the military is so fucking absurd. its a job. and the military is not a democracy. why would you put yourself in a position to catch shit when there is no reason to? go wave a flag in a parade all you want to..i dont really get that either but there is a time and a place. separating yourself from the people you serve with is foolish and i absolutely see how it could hurt morale...the same thing with a muslim soldier putting it out there all the time...nobody cares and noone makes an issue out of these things until that person does.
    just my opinion.
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    Jun 12, 2011 6:35 PM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    tyler_helm said
    Art_Deco saidDespite what the US right-wing and Christian fundamentalists predicted, it's all going smoothly and without any adverse impact.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43301677/ns/us_news-life/

    Let's not draw more people into the arguement than need to be there. There were Gays in the military before DADT. They were successful before and they well be even more successful now.

    Celebrate the victories and not point fingers.


    Except that's an important part of this article, that you want ignored. Contained in its very first sentence:

    "...and so far there has been none of the turmoil or dire consequences predicted by opponents..." The story is that repeal of DADT is working well, despite the critics who claimed otherwise.

    And yes, there were gays in the military before DADT. They got dishonorable discharges, some were given military jail terms, and were scorned and even beaten by their fellow military.

    Now they'll be able to serve openly & honorably, and not be forced out for being gay or put into military prison. If you can't realize that's a significant change in policy, that's still opposed by the groups I mentioned, then either you have your head in the sand, or you represent one or both of those groups yourself.


    Tyler's suggestion about the context in which you created this thread has a good deal of merit. The way you created this thread, the rhetorical emphasis is on the finger pointing and See I Told You So, not on the wonderful progress towards implementation of DADT repeal.

    Someone could just as easily create an equivalent but oppositely-situated thread saying:
    "Despite what the US left wing and gay activists predicted, military officers who had previously expressed opposition to the repeal in Congressional testimony have actually proved perfectly respectful of their orders and have been facilitating the training and transition appropriately. It's all going smoothly and without any adverse impact. The story is that repeal of DADT is working well, despite the gay activist critics who claimed otherwise."

    Case in point: http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/1287990/

  • BeingThePhoen...

    Posts: 1157

    Jun 12, 2011 6:43 PM GMT
    coolarmydude saidMost everyone has no idea how frustrating it is to defend your equal rights in the 2nd person.

    Another thing that annoys me is that the Army training has the Chaplain facilitating the senior leader training before it gets down to the Soldiers. It's a legal issue, not a religious issue!

    Agreed. I guess their thinking is that there would have been some sort of backlash from the more devoutly religious Soldiers or Officers, but gice me a break... it's the Army. Follow orders. Think what you want, feel what you want, but follow orders.
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    Jun 13, 2011 2:32 AM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    I took care of all the soldiers under my command equally, including the gay & lesbian, and was never prejudiced against them (and my gaydar could pick them out in a flash). Actually, few US officers were bigoted against gays in my time.

    .


    You had gaydar when you were in the service? I thought you didn't know that you were gay back then? Looks to me like you were indeed LIVING A LIE back then! You are such a LIAR!
  • Montague

    Posts: 5205

    Jun 13, 2011 2:38 AM GMT
    Well in my slice of life on Camp Pendleton in Cali, biggest Marine Corps base, there is alot of silent dis-rest, especially in the barracks. Already I see the small scale hate crimes growing in response.
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    Jun 13, 2011 4:55 AM GMT
    Dean_Aane said
    Art_Deco said
    I took care of all the soldiers under my command equally, including the gay & lesbian, and was never prejudiced against them (and my gaydar could pick them out in a flash). Actually, few US officers were bigoted against gays in my time..

    You had gaydar when you were in the service? I thought you didn't know that you were gay back then? Looks to me like you were indeed LIVING A LIE back then! You are such a LIAR!

    Of course I had gaydar. In the same way that I was born gay. Here's a story I've told here before:

    In 1995 I was fortunate to have a gay mentor in Seattle when I came out. Who hammered into me the importance of safe sex (he was poz himself). He didn't bring me out himself, but he was my guide when it happened.

    And he explained the gay world to me, and mention gaydar. "What's that?" I asked him.

    "That's short for gay radar, a way gay men can sense when other guys are also gay. But not every gay guy can do it."

    "You mean knowing when another guy is gay? What's special about that? I've always known when other guys were gay, even when I was in the Army."

    "Well, DUH!" he said to me. "Of course you could, because you've always been gay, even if you didn't know it yourself. It's a natural gay ability."

    Well, I don't know if gaydar is implanted in the genes or not, but I guess I always had it. What I didn't have was the ability to recognize my own orientation. Possibly the hypnosis therapy my parents subjected me to in 1962 may have delayed things, I dunno. Or just my own desire to conform and be "normal" as my family expected.

    Was I clueless & stupid? Sure, and criticize me on that count all you like. But don't call me liar, because I never lie.

    But just out of curiosity, wasn't your former account here terminated for TOS/TOU violations? And do you now have 2 accounts here that were started on the same date, 2 months ago?

    Aren't Dean_Aane and deanaane both you? Both joining on 3-20-11? Just curious about the coincidence.