The Point is Ethics

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    Jun 07, 2011 9:07 PM GMT
    Nancy Pelosi: "It's time to clean the swamp."

    House Ethics Manual 2008 Edition, page 1

    Members, officers, and employees of the House should:
    Conduct themselves at all times in a manner that reflects creditably on the House;
    Abide by the spirit as well as the letter of the House rules; and
    Adhere to the broad ethical standards expressed in the Code of Ethics for Government Service.

    Charles Rangel - still in Congress

    Anthony Weiner - still in Congress

    RJ Liberals - no big deal (if it's a Democrat, that is)

    Mark Foley

    The Mark Foley scandal, which broke in late September 2006, centers on soliciting e-mails and sexually suggestive instant messages sent by Mark Foley, a Republican Congressman from Florida, to teenaged boys who had formerly served as congressional pages. Investigation was closed by the FDLE on September 19, 2008 citing insufficient evidence to pursue criminal charges as both "Congress and Mr. Foley denied us access to critical data,” said FDLE Commissioner Gerald Bailey. The scandal has grown to encompass the response of Republican congressional leaders to previous complaints about Foley's contacts with the pages and inconsistencies in the leaders' public statements. There are also allegations that a second Republican Congressman, Jim Kolbe, had improper conduct with at least two youths, a 16-year old page and a recently graduated page.

    The scandal led to Foley's resignation from Congress on September 29, 2006. In some quarters, the scandal is believed to have contributed to the Republican Party's loss of control over Congress in the November 7, 2006 election, as well as the end of House Speaker Dennis Hastert's leadership of the House Republicans. Kirk Fordham, chief of staff to Rep. Tom Reynolds and former chief of staff for Foley, also resigned as a result of the scandal.

    Chris Lee

    On February 9, 2011, Lee was found to have been responding to a personal ad from a woman on Craigslist. Claiming to be a 39-year-old divorced lobbyist but using his real name, he used a Google Gmail account to send her a shirtless photo taken with his Blackberry phone. The female recipient searched his name, discovered he was a married Congressman, and turned over her email correspondence to the New York news blog Gawker. After confirming the facts, Gawker published its exposé on February 9, 2011.

    Lee resigned from office the same day. He also issued a statement of apology, saying, “I regret the harm that my actions have caused my family, my staff and my constituents.... I have made profound mistakes and I promise to work as hard as I can to seek their forgiveness.”

    While Foley's actions were more serious than Weiner's (excluding Weiner's overt lying), Lee's were certainly not.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 07, 2011 9:28 PM GMT
    Stop trying to incite people with these false equivalencies.

    Mark Foley was using his position to gain access to underage pages who were working for the House. That's not the same thing as consensual, relationships with a non-employee, adult.

    Had Foley been involved with adult men not under his purview, I would have no problem with it.

    And I while I think what Chris Lee did was sleazy, I don't think he needed to step down for it.

    Now, David "Hooker" Vitter who broke the law should probably step down.
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    Jun 07, 2011 9:40 PM GMT
    Christian73 saidStop trying to incite people with these false equivalencies.

    Mark Foley was using his position to gain access to underage pages who were working for the House. That's not the same thing as consensual, relationships with a non-employee, adult.

    Had Foley been involved with adult men not under his purview, I would have no problem with it.

    And I while I think what Chris Lee did was sleazy, I don't think he needed to step down for it.

    Now, David "Hooker" Vitter who broke the law should probably step down.

    I clearly did not make false equivalencies. I specifically said on bottom line that Foley's was more serious. But comparing Weiner and Lee, Weiner's conduct was more serious, and his extremely flagrant lying was especially more serious. If any false equivalency could be inferred, it was between Weiner and Lee.
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Jun 07, 2011 9:53 PM GMT
    Socal, don't you have something really productive to do this evening?
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Jun 07, 2011 9:59 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    HndsmKansan saidSocal, don't you have something really productive to do this evening?


    It's only 3pm in California. icon_wink.gif



    Precisely my point... work hours isn't it? LOL

    icon_idea.gif
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    Jun 07, 2011 10:01 PM GMT
    HndsmKansan saidSocal, don't you have something really productive to do this evening?

    I plan on it. I noticed you indicated you were tiring of the Weiner threads, and I was as well, believe it or not. But when I saw several RJers say his entire conduct was no big deal, it crossed the line for me and I needed to respond. Over a full week, his bare-faced lies to invited media were extremely overt and brazen. He demonstrated conduct completely inconsistent with what should be expected by a Congressman. Even Democratic leaders had strong words, but to RJers, "no big deal".
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Jun 07, 2011 10:03 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    HndsmKansan saidSocal, don't you have something really productive to do this evening?

    I plan on it. I noticed you indicated you were tiring of the Weiner threads, and I was as well, believe it or not. But when I saw several RJers say his entire conduct was no big deal, it crossed the line for me and I needed to respond. Over a full week, his bare-faced lies to invited media were extremely overt and brazen. He demonstrated conduct completely inconsistent with what should be expected by a Congressman. Even Democratic leaders had strong words, but to RJers, "no big deal".


    Um, last night I said, "how very sad" and called Weiner a dick.
    I never said it wasn't a big deal...
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    Jun 07, 2011 10:06 PM GMT
    HndsmKansan said
    socalfitness said
    HndsmKansan saidSocal, don't you have something really productive to do this evening?

    I plan on it. I noticed you indicated you were tiring of the Weiner threads, and I was as well, believe it or not. But when I saw several RJers say his entire conduct was no big deal, it crossed the line for me and I needed to respond. Over a full week, his bare-faced lies to invited media were extremely overt and brazen. He demonstrated conduct completely inconsistent with what should be expected by a Congressman. Even Democratic leaders had strong words, but to RJers, "no big deal".


    Um, last night I said, "how very sad" and called Weiner a dick.
    I never said it wasn't a big deal...

    I know that. Your comments were quite reasonable. If you could loan a few strands of your common sense DNA to some of your Comrades, they might begin to sound reasonable. (but not your DNA that deals with Sarah, that is lol)
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Jun 07, 2011 10:08 PM GMT
    socalfitness said


    (but not your DNA that deals with Sarah, that is lol)


    Yes, we part ways with the Palin woman... LOL

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    Jun 07, 2011 10:44 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    HndsmKansan saidSocal, don't you have something really productive to do this evening?

    I plan on it. I noticed you indicated you were tiring of the Weiner threads, and I was as well, believe it or not. But when I saw several RJers say his entire conduct was no big deal, it crossed the line for me and I needed to respond. Over a full week, his bare-faced lies to invited media were extremely overt and brazen. He demonstrated conduct completely inconsistent with what should be expected by a Congressman. Even Democratic leaders had strong words, but to RJers, "no big deal".


    This RJer has a problem with Weiner lying....and I think he'll be appropriately ousted if the ethics evaluation finds he acted unlawfully.

    I was thrilled that John Ensign resigned and may even face criminal charges. There is NO doubt that he broke the law by paying bribes to his mistress/family.

    I'd like to see justice for David Vitter.
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Jun 07, 2011 10:55 PM GMT
    Yes, I think it is clear Weiner needs to go quite frankly. Congress should serve as an inspiration to those who want to serve, regardless of what side of the aisle they are on.

    What happened was really a disgrace. Weiner needs to exit.

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    Jun 07, 2011 11:47 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    HndsmKansan said
    socalfitness said
    HndsmKansan saidSocal, don't you have something really productive to do this evening?

    I plan on it. I noticed you indicated you were tiring of the Weiner threads, and I was as well, believe it or not. But when I saw several RJers say his entire conduct was no big deal, it crossed the line for me and I needed to respond. Over a full week, his bare-faced lies to invited media were extremely overt and brazen. He demonstrated conduct completely inconsistent with what should be expected by a Congressman. Even Democratic leaders had strong words, but to RJers, "no big deal".


    Um, last night I said, "how very sad" and called Weiner a dick.
    I never said it wasn't a big deal...

    I know that. Your comments were quite reasonable. If you could loan a few strands of your common sense DNA to some of your Comrades, they might begin to sound reasonable. (but not your DNA that deals with Sarah, that is lol)


    No one is defending what Weiner did. My central point is that it's none of my business what consenting adults do in person or online. I don't care what Weiner or Schwarzanegger or, hell, even Vitter, do behind closed doors or on the Internet as long as all parties are of age, and not coerced.

    His lying about it, particularly being so aggressive, was really over-the-top and I feel that he's gotten his comeuppance for that.

    I'm tired of all the sex "scandals", which diverts all of our attention from important issues. The reason we call out conservatives is because they're often working against gay rights while not living up to the standards they push on the rest of us. Otherwise, I truly believe it's none of our business and that politicians have the right to a private life.