Clergy Proclamation: Being Gay Not A Sin

  • metta

    Posts: 39089

    Jun 13, 2011 9:20 PM GMT
    Clergy Proclamation: Being Gay Not A Sin

    "Omaha area ministers will publicly unveil a proclamation on Wednesday calling for an end to religious and civil discrimination based on sexual orientation."

    They include an apology for previously being silent.

    http://www.ketv.com/r/28214658/detail.html
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    Jun 13, 2011 9:29 PM GMT
    This is excellent news! icon_biggrin.gif
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    Jun 13, 2011 9:41 PM GMT
    Great stuff!
  • Poolboy44

    Posts: 54

    Jun 13, 2011 11:20 PM GMT
    In the eyes of the Catholic church being gay is not a sin. It is the act of fantasizing about another man or having sex with another man that is considered sinful. Then again, if you really think about it, they hold the same stance for any man doing the same thing with a woman to whom which he is not married. So, really, you're fine being gay in the eyes of the Catholic church... you just can't act on it in any way... cool right?! (WARNING: sarcasm is dripping off that last comment.)

    Not saying I support the church's stance on homosexuality, just reiterating what I have learned seeing as how I attend the only school in the US that receives money from the Vatican... I'm gonna say it's pretty catholic and they know what they are talking about.

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    Jun 14, 2011 12:04 AM GMT
    Being Catholic is a sin.
  • Poolboy44

    Posts: 54

    Jun 14, 2011 12:14 AM GMT
    field123 saidBeing Catholic is a sin.


    Wow, with that kind of close mindedness you'd get along great with some of those religious crazies and uptight conservatives. Keep up the good work on being completely unproductive.
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    Jun 14, 2011 12:20 AM GMT
    Excuse me for offending you, but I think it is rather offensive to tell people that they can be gay- just don't act on it. I saw your post as a defense of that position.
  • Poolboy44

    Posts: 54

    Jun 14, 2011 12:27 AM GMT
    Oh, by all means I think that the church has some pretty fucked up views on things and is hypocritical in many ways. I in fact was defending that position- the fact that is is offensive to tell people they can be gay but not act on it. But close minded hatred, blanket statements and prejudice against something you don't agree with won't serve any good. Statements like "Being Catholic is a sin" are just as ignorant and useless in the long run as anyone going around preaching "being gay is a sin", which some Catholics have taken to be the message of the church, unfortunately. Those statements being the people who use them down to such a base level, and I'm sure you're better and more intelligent than that.


    EDIT: They also tell people they can be straight and act on it... until marriage. Granted the straight person can go one step farther in this situation; but still, got to love the archaic foundations of a book written by infallible God through the work of hands of naturally flawed men. For of course the Bible has no errors, that's why Vatican councils have been held time and time again over the centuries to revisit and revise the views of the church based on this perfect book, free of error.



    *Live and let live, understand but not necessarily agree, and have intelligent debate instead of brute, stark name calling.
  • Aquanerd

    Posts: 845

    Jun 14, 2011 12:29 AM GMT
    Another step in the right direction.

    That's been the official position of the Presbyterian Church USA since the 90's. And before that there has always been an unofficial welcome for Gay members in many Presbyterian Congregations; especially in urban areas. After all where would they get there organists or Tenors? icon_smile.gif

    No seriously. Christianity is a predominately conservative versus progressive (notice the use small "c" and "p") It a religion based on tradition. Change is going to take time, obviously not as quickly as some of you, who's heads spin around at the mere sight of the word "CHRISTIANITY," wood like, but it is happening.

    Would it be great if we could "snap three times in a circle" and have all people except homosexuality as normal? Yep, it would. But then again what would the viscous queens, and our angrily brethren have to rail against? icon_biggrin.gif
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    Jun 14, 2011 12:51 AM GMT
    Wow! Very cool! With that being said, I am praying that the United Methodist Church will make a proclamation.
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    Jun 14, 2011 12:58 AM GMT
    Poolboy44 saidOh, by all means I think that the church has some pretty fucked up views on things and is hypocritical in many ways. I in fact was defending that position- the fact that is is offensive to tell people they can be gay but not act on it. But close minded hatred, blanket statements and prejudice against something you don't agree with won't serve any good. Statements like "Being Catholic is a sin" are just as ignorant and useless in the long run as anyone going around preaching "being gay is a sin", which some Catholics have taken to be the message of the church, unfortunately. Those statements being the people who use them down to such a base level, and I'm sure you're better and more intelligent than that.


    EDIT: They also tell people they can be straight and act on it... until marriage. Granted the straight person can go one step farther in this situation; but still, got to love the archaic foundations of a book written by infallible God through the work of hands of naturally flawed men. For of course the Bible has no errors, that's why Vatican councils have been held time and time again over the centuries to revisit and revise the views of the church based on this perfect book, free of error.



    *Live and let live, understand but not necessarily agree, and have intelligent debate instead of brute, stark name calling.


    No: prejudice against something you don't agree with is called conscientiousness. And: the message of the Catholic Church is unambiguous and much more offensive than my blanket statement. As it was promulgated by the Holy See....

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/3916804/Pope-says-humanity-needs-saving-from-homosexuality.html

  • TheIStrat

    Posts: 777

    Jun 14, 2011 12:59 AM GMT
    It's a trap.
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    Jun 14, 2011 1:07 AM GMT
    TheIStrat saidIt's a trap.
    Yeah I have no idea on this one either. I mean it is Omaha after all.
  • Poolboy44

    Posts: 54

    Jun 14, 2011 1:10 AM GMT
    field123 said
    Poolboy44 saidOh, by all means I think that the church has some pretty fucked up views on things and is hypocritical in many ways. I in fact was defending that position- the fact that is is offensive to tell people they can be gay but not act on it. But close minded hatred, blanket statements and prejudice against something you don't agree with won't serve any good. Statements like "Being Catholic is a sin" are just as ignorant and useless in the long run as anyone going around preaching "being gay is a sin", which some Catholics have taken to be the message of the church, unfortunately. Those statements being the people who use them down to such a base level, and I'm sure you're better and more intelligent than that.


    EDIT: They also tell people they can be straight and act on it... until marriage. Granted the straight person can go one step farther in this situation; but still, got to love the archaic foundations of a book written by infallible God through the work of hands of naturally flawed men. For of course the Bible has no errors, that's why Vatican councils have been held time and time again over the centuries to revisit and revise the views of the church based on this perfect book, free of error.



    *Live and let live, understand but not necessarily agree, and have intelligent debate instead of brute, stark name calling.


    No: prejudice against something you don't agree with is called conscientiousness. And: the message of the Catholic Church is unambiguous and much more offensive than my blanket statement. As it was promulgated by the Holy See....

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/3916804/Pope-says-humanity-needs-saving-from-homosexuality.html




    Good read, and as I said before the church is hypocritical and archaic: it teaches that homosexuality is not sinful, only the act AND it's run by a man so old and rigid minded that things won't change. I am appalled that someone can make such a statement, and it's shameful that the leaders of the church can't be as accepting and loving as they preach people should be. And yes, their statements are much more offensive than yours; but what good does making that statement do? Seriously, it's like a screaming matching where nothing gets accomplished, retaliation with that kind of base comment makes you no better than what the pope said: the hate behind it still persists and really doesn't do anything productive.

    Oh, and the best thing about that statement the pope made, his Papal Infallibility makes it true? Isn't it amazing how the title "Pope" suddenly removes all human error from his actions and statements, which the church teaches is inherent in every single human being.
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    Jun 14, 2011 1:26 AM GMT
    Papism is as a thumb stuck into the eye of God.

    No, really: one guy claims to speak infallibly for God and Jesus Christ, as the "vicar of Christ" on Earth?

    This heresy was a "tradition and dogma of the Holy Mother Church" defined in the First (hardly the first ever) Vatican Council of 1870, where a seated pope may pronounce a matter as fact and an article of faith ex cathedra, making it binding upon Roman Catholics who wish to continue in communion with the Church.

    And before the claws come out, sorry... I'm a former catholic. That church is as spiritually dead as a doorknob.

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    Jun 14, 2011 1:27 AM GMT
    Draper saidIt's a common misconception that most religions consider being gay a sin. It's not a sin to be gay any more than it's a sin to be straight. Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, et al. are divided into various denominations, and they each have their own view of what is and what is not a sin.


    Sorry but Islam overall is a homophobic religion, at least far more when compared to the other religions overall. Unless of course you think that being jailed for being gay is what Islam considers to be a good thing. True there's liberal and gay-friendly Muslims, but not to the degree that there are gay-friendly Christians, Jews, and Buddhists. Seriously show me one single fucking Mosque that's openly gay-friendly let alone a gay congregation.
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    Jun 14, 2011 1:33 AM GMT
    Poolboy44 said
    field123 said
    Poolboy44 saidOh, by all means I think that the church has some pretty fucked up views on things and is hypocritical in many ways. I in fact was defending that position- the fact that is is offensive to tell people they can be gay but not act on it. But close minded hatred, blanket statements and prejudice against something you don't agree with won't serve any good. Statements like "Being Catholic is a sin" are just as ignorant and useless in the long run as anyone going around preaching "being gay is a sin", which some Catholics have taken to be the message of the church, unfortunately. Those statements being the people who use them down to such a base level, and I'm sure you're better and more intelligent than that.


    EDIT: They also tell people they can be straight and act on it... until marriage. Granted the straight person can go one step farther in this situation; but still, got to love the archaic foundations of a book written by infallible God through the work of hands of naturally flawed men. For of course the Bible has no errors, that's why Vatican councils have been held time and time again over the centuries to revisit and revise the views of the church based on this perfect book, free of error.
    My education of the Bible, taught by priests, illustrated how IMPERFECT the Bible is. How the stories are FULL of errors, and a mixture of multiple authors, editors and traditions. Biblical literalism is a twentieth century phenomenon, and very American.



    *Live and let live, understand but not necessarily agree, and have intelligent debate instead of brute, stark name calling.


    No: prejudice against something you don't agree with is called conscientiousness. And: the message of the Catholic Church is unambiguous and much more offensive than my blanket statement. As it was promulgated by the Holy See....

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/3916804/Pope-says-humanity-needs-saving-from-homosexuality.html




    Good read, and as I said before the church is hypocritical and archaic: it teaches that homosexuality is not sinful, only the act AND it's run by a man so old and rigid minded that things won't change. I am appalled that someone can make such a statement, and it's shameful that the leaders of the church can't be as accepting and loving as they preach people should be. And yes, their statements are much more offensive than yours; but what good does making that statement do? Seriously, it's like a screaming matching where nothing gets accomplished, retaliation with that kind of base comment makes you no better than what the pope said: the hate behind it still persists and really doesn't do anything productive.

    Oh, and the best thing about that statement the pope made, his Papal Infallibility makes it true? Isn't it amazing how the title "Pope" suddenly removes all human error from his actions and statements, which the church teaches is inherent in every single human being.


    Well, the Pope is infallible in matters of Church doctrine and tradition. Since Pope Palpatine (Benedict) took over, there has been an intensification in the anti-gay rhetoric. Of course, the dogma trickles around to every church and into the media.

    My experience with coming out and learning to accept myself came from a devout Catholic couple, who were members of the third order of Franciscans. There really are a ton of gay priests, and it would literally stop functioning if they were told to leave. The Pope knows this, but has present the traditional interpretation of tradition to preserve its moral standing. The church has to modernize their understanding of human sexuality. I think the Church is similar to the US military in that the higher ups are the most fearful, and it eases up down the chain of command. Of course, there will always be the militants. They are probably the toe-tappers and closet cases.

    I imagine things will ease up with the death of the older Cardinals. If they don't accept the reality of research on sexuality, they will die. But there will always be the die-hards.
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    Jun 14, 2011 8:49 AM GMT
    JB82 said
    Sorry but Islam overall is a homophobic religion, at least far more when compared to the other religions overall. Unless of course you think that being jailed for being gay is what Islam considers to be a good thing. True there's liberal and gay-friendly Muslims, but not to the degree that there are gay-friendly Christians, Jews, and Buddhists. Seriously show me one single fucking Mosque that's openly gay-friendly let alone a gay congregation.


    THIS.
  • Rowing_Ant

    Posts: 1504

    Jun 14, 2011 9:03 AM GMT
    Good news! The Unitarian & Free Christian Church in the UK, of which I am a member and a Lay Pastor, have been Gay Friendly since the late 1970s/ early 1980s.To us, it's such a none issue! We can't figure out why so many Christians are going around hating each other, using the "Gay Friendly" question as as Litmus Test for whether a Church or Denomination is " properly Christian" or not. Before I moved to Manchester my old church was involved wtih the Gay Pride event and had a stand advertising the fact that we perform gay marraiges and partnership blessings. Heck, we've been blessing gay partnerships from before it was legal to do so!!!

    The Methodist Church in the UK came out with the 'Derby Declarationi' in 1992 which is both progressive and hateful at the same time. It "affirms and celebrates" the role of LGBT members of the Methodist Church and "upholds and supports them in their ministry" but also reminds all Methodists that Sex can only take place within Marriage - ergo no sex for the gays unless they are married. Similarly no sex for the straights outside marriage either. Its a bit of a committee-born fudge to be honest.

    Another thought, of course, is how does one define "sin". The best definitions I have ever come accross are these: Being Disconnected from God and Treating someone (including yourself) as an object. As someone who believes that God is in everyone and fills us and makes us who we are, then denying your true self, staying int he closet, not embracing your God-given sexuality is a Sin. Treatiing yourself as a thing, as not being worthy, (something we have thrown at us all over from the Book of Common Prayer to advertising hoardings), is the same thing. We are all "worthy". We are all loved and lovable not just by God but by ourselves. Jesus said that we were to Love oursevles, Love God and love our Neighbour. He put the hardest first: Love the Self.In loving the self you have tolove and embrace who you are. All of your, Even the bits you don't like.Embrace the Prodigal in you. Look inthe Mirror and say I love you. And in so doing you are Loving God.

    Anyway.....
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    Jun 14, 2011 12:55 PM GMT
    ^so what's your point? you've just proven JB82's statement to be true.
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    Jun 14, 2011 12:56 PM GMT
    Very Cool! Perfect timing with Pride being next weekend. Its a great step in this deeply conservative state.
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    Jun 14, 2011 1:09 PM GMT
    Poolboy44 said
    field123 saidBeing Catholic is a sin.


    Wow, with that kind of close mindedness you'd get along great with some of those religious crazies and uptight conservatives. Keep up the good work on being completely unproductive.


    I think he was being a touch circumspect. I would go so far as to say that being a Catholic is to a gay person what being a Nazi is to a Jew. When the Pope and his cohorts get off my case, I will lay off theirs. (That tends to go for most of the Judeo-Christian-Muslim affiliations too).
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    Jun 14, 2011 1:11 PM GMT
    Poolboy44 saidIn the eyes of the Catholic church being gay is not a sin. It is the act of fantasizing about another man or having sex with another man that is considered sinful. Then again, if you really think about it, they hold the same stance for any man doing the same thing with a woman to whom which he is not married. So, really, you're fine being gay in the eyes of the Catholic church... you just can't act on it in any way... cool right?! (WARNING: sarcasm is dripping off that last comment.)

    Not saying I support the church's stance on homosexuality, just reiterating what I have learned seeing as how I attend the only school in the US that receives money from the Vatican... I'm gonna say it's pretty catholic and they know what they are talking about.



    Well just to take this a little deeper, the reason why the Catholic church feels that the act of homosexuality is wrong is because it goes against procreation. Meaning the sexual act is purely pleasure based because the ending result cannot produce a child. Hence this is why orthodox traditional hardwired Catholics are against the use of condoms.
    This same idealogy lead to the split of the Catholic church and the creation of Lutheranism.. another story for another time.

    The funny thing is tho and this is where u stump most Catholics that feel this way is what if I'm a hetero man but I am sterile?? Does that mean I can't have sex with my wife? What if we are both sterile? This same logic makes oral sex a sin by nature
  • SoDakGuy

    Posts: 1862

    Jun 14, 2011 1:22 PM GMT
    And water is wet.

    What's the point?


    metta8 saidClergy Proclamation: Being Gay Not A Sin

    "Omaha area ministers will publicly unveil a proclamation on Wednesday calling for an end to religious and civil discrimination based on sexual orientation."

    They include an apology for previously being silent.

    http://www.ketv.com/r/28214658/detail.html
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    Jun 14, 2011 1:29 PM GMT
    Thanks for posting! icon_biggrin.gif