Australia, land of the free, or discriminitive nanny state?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 14, 2011 1:57 PM GMT
    [url]http://www.crikey.com.au/2011/06/14/the-gillard-government’s-anti-gay-marriage-policy-goes-global/[/url]

    So this is my first forum topic; yay! Many of you know I post frequently and love my country, haven't started a post before, but this is worth it... this realisation really has me pissed!

    So you think if you're an Australian citizen and you want to marry a non-Australia citizen in their country you can do it, despite it being illegal in Australia, and mariiage being within the domain of the nation-state as recognised on a global level... think again... Australia can still block your marriage...

    That's right, Australian policy is to block an ICT for same sex partners, which effectively means that even if you want to get married in a country where same sex marriage is permitted, you can't. You cannot get clearance that you are not already married, which is a pre-condition to marriage in most states... Not to mention the fact that even if you do manage to get married in another country, you won't get recognition here...

    How much longer can we hypocritically chastise other nations for their human rights abuses when our own record is so heavily tarnished in the eyes of the most progressive States in the world?
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    Jun 14, 2011 2:12 PM GMT
    Preach it sister.

    xx
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    Jun 14, 2011 2:18 PM GMT
    Student_90 saidPreach it sister.

    xx


    you bitch, i might have voted for that scrubber Julia, in the end, but i don't like the way she's treated the gays at all... she's a scrut... no less, and definitely not more!
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    Jun 14, 2011 2:22 PM GMT
    I feel you refer to me as a bitch a lot now. Warranted? Unsure.

    I voted for her too, only because Abbott was likely to get the majority of seats if too many went to the Greens or others. I really liked her before and briefly after she kicked Rudd out but she is becoming useless. I do agree with the Carbon Tax and Cigarette plain packaging though.

    I could just renounce my citizenship and live somewhere else to get married...I do have a back up although my other country isn't exactly forward thinking in this area.
    xx
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    Jun 14, 2011 2:39 PM GMT
    um exactly... your country isn't forward thinking at all! fuck! though enough said, it's not the worst!

    yeah, i'm seriously thinking about invoking my UK citizenship through my grandad and just living in canada... completely related but same mindset!
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    Jun 14, 2011 2:48 PM GMT
    Oh gosh, a forum topic focused on Australian politics. MUST. CONTRIBUTE. NOW.

    Despite the fact that I believe Gillard is/was the lesser of two evils... that bitch has got to go.

    What sort of a self-respecting atheist would be caught dead espousing the kind of "Christian" values that she so obviously relates to? What a hypocrite... scraggity scrag-scrag scrag!

    Reckon anyone else in the Caucus has a figuratively keen-edged dagger emplaced? We'd be lucky. I'm thinking not though. icon_neutral.gif

    Rant complete.
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    Jun 14, 2011 2:56 PM GMT
    thanks! she is a witch.. in disguise... she represents a progressive party, with selective conservative views... she is a discrimanatory b*tch.. she must go!
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    Jun 14, 2011 2:56 PM GMT
    MuchMoreThanMuscle saidAwh...look! It's a thread just for the Aussie members of our site.

    Guess I have no place in being here.

    But "booo!" to Australian marriage blocks. icon_evil.gif


    babe, you're welcome in any thread i post ;)
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    Jun 14, 2011 3:03 PM GMT
    MuchMoreThanMuscle saidThanks!

    icon_biggrin.gif


    would be nice if i could look you up next time i'm in chicago... may be a couple of years from now though!
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    Jun 14, 2011 3:09 PM GMT
    Actually, seriously speaking, I find myself doubting this country i find myself in... it's not the place i was born, nor the place i thought i lived in...
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    Jun 14, 2011 3:22 PM GMT
    My point here is that I'm really disappointed that the country i was raised in, that i love is so backward... i never thought i'[d feel this way...
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    Jun 14, 2011 3:49 PM GMT
    This policy is so discriminating. She needs to be ousted as soon as possible.icon_evil.gif
    I am not from your country, but you have my support.
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    Jun 14, 2011 3:51 PM GMT
    Paxton saidThis policy is so discriminating. She needs to be ousted as soon as possible.icon_evil.gif
    I am not from your country, but you have my support.


    thank you! the more people that speak out, the better the chance of challenging it!
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    Jun 14, 2011 7:08 PM GMT
    As a True Blue Aussie, the real thing, and not some cheap import like Ms Gillard. A man of many, many, many generations born to Oz, and not just 1,2,3 or a New Australian Like Ms Gillard, who now can also say she is an Australian citizen, yet never an Aussie. Yes She too, even gets more rights in Oz than I do a true Blue Aussie, and I have every right to bitch about that, but life goes on.

    Even if I had a hetrosexual brother who was to take a wife overseas, My country Oz, may not accept that either, and may well not let her in as well to call Oz home. But.......if we don't like that, they can always leave, as many new Australians have more choices than us Aussies too, as in they may behold duel citizenship too.

    So not sure what the big deal here is. I still live in one of the most livable country on earth; albeit newcomers and people only 1,2,3 generations get more rights than I do, just because I was also born an Aussie poofter. But life goes on, and life is still good in Oz
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    Jun 14, 2011 7:09 PM GMT
    Paxton saidThis policy is so discriminating. She needs to be ousted as soon as possible.icon_evil.gif
    I am not from your country, but you have my support.


    I agree lets send her back home to wales. But............I 100% support my country and anyone who does not like it can leave too.icon_wink.gif
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    Jun 14, 2011 10:44 PM GMT
    Could the Supreme Court in Oz over rule the Marriage Act if it was ever challenged?
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    Jun 14, 2011 10:51 PM GMT
    beneful1 saidCould the Supreme Court in Oz over rule the Marriage Act if it was ever challenged?


    Yes they could

    I didn't realize there was a marriage block, that's just disgusting icon_sad.gif
  • pure_motion

    Posts: 156

    Jun 14, 2011 10:54 PM GMT
    It's the High Court over here, and if its a validly enacted and precisely worded law then they don't get a lot of leg room interpretation wise.

    UK citizenship anyone?
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    Jun 14, 2011 11:09 PM GMT

    Like PM - I couldn't resist!

    I saw Julia one day on Sky News Australia talking about how she is innately Conservative and how Conservative values have influenced her life.


    I thought - are you on crack?

    The woman is in her late forties, an athiest, living in a de facto relationship with her hairdresser, has no children and has devoted her life to her career. These things in themselves aren't bad, but hardly Conservative.

    She isn't the kind of person you think would oppose gay marriage.

    Julia aside, politics in Australia is pretty dismal at the moment. I thought Malcolm Turnbull would have made a decent PM, alas he is too rich and too successful.

    Australian's are obssessed with choosing politicians like them - folksy and 'of the people'.

    I call it the Bob Hawke Factor - something Rudd failed miserably at. He shouldn't have been so apologetic about being educated and not very folksy.


    Where are our dynamic and innovative leaders?

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    Jun 14, 2011 11:12 PM GMT
    cold said
    killer_pj said
    beneful1 saidCould the Supreme Court in Oz over rule the Marriage Act if it was ever challenged?

    Yes they could
    I didn't realize there was a marriage block, that's just disgusting icon_sad.gif

    Not this.

    pure_motion saidIt's the High Court over here, and if its a validly enacted and precisely worded law then they don't get a lot of leg room interpretation wise.


    This. There is practically no room for them to interpret as it says a valid union is between a 'man and a woman'. They would be overstepping their judicial function if they read this to also mean 'man and man' or 'woman and woman'. The only way they could invalidate the change is to find that it was constitutionally incompatible, which is probably unlikely though not impossible. I mean, the courts have implied generally accepted freedoms from the constitution even though it was never written and goes against our system of parliamentary sovereignty...

    The non-issuing of certificates, however, could probably be overturned with an administrative appeal. Once somebody disputes, it's unlikely that they will continue to block gay Australian couples getting married overseas.


    I wasn't saying it'd ever happen. But it is within the supreme court's power to change it. As you said it's unlikely not impossible
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    Jun 14, 2011 11:23 PM GMT
    Damn this pretty much ruins my plans for moving to Oz.... Bye Gold Coast *sniff*...
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    Jun 16, 2011 11:33 AM GMT
    I want to have dinner with her.

    But hopefully those three couples will have fun.

    P.S I can do a great impersonation of her. Give me a wig and I am dead on.

    xx
  • chemistry

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    Jun 16, 2011 12:21 PM GMT
    Do you have civil unions in Australia??? We do in NZ and to be honest you dont hear too many people going on about wanting to be "married"... I mean what is the difference when its down to the couple saying they want to be together anyway?

    Now, if your govt said a civil union or equivilent of another country wasn't recognised for the sakes of bringing your partner to live with you in Australia (or NZ for that matter) then hell yeah I'd say it sucks big time... same would go if the other country had "marriage" as the only option ie the civil union wasnt available but I'd say that was rare...
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    Jun 16, 2011 5:55 PM GMT
    As it happened in Canada it was the Supreme Court that paved the way not the government. After many of the provinces, Ontario, Quebec, BC etc had each their respective laws changed to include sexual orientiation and other provinces dithered or worked on banning ss marriage etc and the federal govt dithered the Supreme Court decided that "sexual orientation" MUST be "read into" the Canadian Charter of Rights as if it was written there even though it isn't. Their ruling on the matter ended the matter and those provinces that were "anti" had no choice but to accept it.

    So as far as Oz goes.. even if there was a clause in your constitution or charter of rights if your High Court ruled like the Supreme Court of Canada did it would in effect make that marriage clause invalid would it not?

    btw iirc regarding our Supreme Courts ruling,, there wasn't even a court challenge to the constituinality of gay marriage taking place to determine this... The court made their decision on their own in effect killing all future challenges that might come their way on the matter. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

  • funkymonkey

    Posts: 194

    Jun 16, 2011 6:17 PM GMT
    pure_motion saidIt's the High Court over here, and if its a validly enacted and precisely worded law then they don't get a lot of leg room interpretation wise.

    UK citizenship anyone?


    is it still possible for an australian to appeal to the privy council, or has that link been severed?