The first OPENLY GAY Presidential Candidate is Republican Fred Karger!

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    Jun 15, 2011 10:29 PM GMT
    I am surprised I've seen no posts yet on Realjock about Fred Karger. Now here's a Republican I'd consider voting for. And I would think the Republicans on Realjock would be singing his praises. Isn't he just what you've been looking for? Socially liberal, fiscally conservative, out and proud!

    Check out his campaign website, and these two interviews:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/ns/msnbc_tv-rachel_maddow_show/#43403669

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4JdknH3h88#t=16m56s
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    Jun 15, 2011 10:32 PM GMT
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  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14389

    Jun 15, 2011 10:37 PM GMT
    It would be awesome to see this progressive minded, fiscally conservative man get the GOP presidential nomination. Now the tough part, getting around all the religious, right wing lunatics that hold the GOP hostage.
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    Jun 15, 2011 10:57 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said“I want a path to citizenship for immigrants already living in the country, as well as greatly improve border security to discourage future law-breaking.”

    Nope.


    Which parts of that do you disagree with, and why?

    southbeach1500 said"I want to elevate [education] to number one again, to put attention on it and get public discussion. I think we need to make school more interesting and fun to get kids excited."

    Guess he won't eliminate the Department of Education then.


    What would you do to improve education?
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    Jun 15, 2011 11:11 PM GMT
    Well this is one hell of a articulate, knowledgeable and good looking republican, why haven't our righties jumped on his 'bandwagon' ? I'm impressed too, that he's got the guts to go against the mainstream Republicans as a gay man in a crowd of mostly white bigots and also to expose Romney as deceiving the public as to his residence. Our RJ repubs should be giving him their support.
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    Jun 15, 2011 11:44 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said3) As an employer who has been trying for almost a year to get a non-citizen here under the H-1B visa program, in other words legally, it is an insult to me and to the millions of people who, at great emotional and financial expense go through the absurd system of legally immigrating to the USA.


    Wow, we AGREE on something! The current process of legal immigration and citizenship IS absurd. How would you improve it?


    southbeach1500 said
    MenschPress saidWhat would you do to improve education?


    1) Recognize that a central control, top down, Washington DC approach to "education" is a huge money pit - it's been tried for decades now and the test scores and high school graduation levels just get worse and worse. End this huge pork barrel that is the Department of Education

    2) The Federal government has absolutely no authority granted to it by the Constitution to be involved in the education system.

    3) Public schools are primarily funded by local taxes. Leave it to the local municipalities and the states.


    Could you say more about what you WOULD do, instead of just passing the buck? Let's say we did leave it all to states and local municipalities. What would be your advice to THEM to fix/improve education?

    Okay, then what?

    Let's say we did leave it all to the states and local municipalities. Now you're the mayor/governor, and the buck has been passed to you. How would you fix/improve education?
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    Jun 15, 2011 11:56 PM GMT
    Columbusite777 saidI believe that something was mentioned about him sometime ago but it seems to have never caught on. I'd vote for him if he did run for president!

    I'm sure the social conservatives will hate this.


    Since he doesn't fit the standard narrative, he will probably just be ignored.
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    Jun 16, 2011 12:07 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    MenschPress said
    Wow, we AGREE on something! The current process of legal immigration and citizenship IS absurd. How would you improve it?



    I think the premise that the entire non-immigrant visa process is based on, which is, "We presume that once you are in the USA, you will stay here" is completely ridiculous.

    Example: A friend was starting his last semester at a university in London. He wanted to come visit here over the Christmas holiday. The U.S. embassy in London denied the visa because he "didn't have strong ties" outside of the USA. Are you kidding me? He invested tens of thousands of dollars in his university education, had 1 semester until graduation, and those aren't "strong ties" outside the USA?

    Example #2: Another friend of mine runs a very small company. 2 people. They also are trying to bring in an H-1B employee for a project. The Federal government requires that the employer has an office. Not a home office. An office building office. In this day and age, where telecommuting is common and many small businesses operate out of home offices, to require an office building office is insane. They went out and rented an office, totally unused since July of last year and are still waiting for the visa to be approved by the embassy officer in Europe. This is AFTER the USCIS here in the USA already approved everything.

    And people wonder why I don't want the Federal government involved in health care? Almost everything they touch turns to crap.




    MenschPress said
    Could you say more about what you WOULD do, instead of just passing the buck? Let's say we did leave it all to states and local municipalities. What would be your advice to THEM to fix/improve education?


    Well, eliminating the Department of Education and having the states and local municipalities decide what to do is a "would do" answer.

    As for advice for the states and local municipalities... beats me. But that's their responsibility.


    And THERE is the very essence of who and what you are.

    Once again, for all of the elocution...nothing is said.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19138

    Jun 16, 2011 12:15 AM GMT
    MenschPress saidI am surprised I've seen no posts yet on Realjock about Fred Karger. Now here's a Republican I'd consider voting for. And I would think the Republicans on Realjock would be singing his praises. Isn't he just what you've been looking for? Socially liberal, fiscally conservative, out and proud!

    Check out his campaign website, and these two interviews:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/ns/msnbc_tv-rachel_maddow_show/#43403669

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4JdknH3h88#t=16m56s




    And why would you think we would want to vote for him...Because he's gay and Republican? Sure you don't think that would be the only criteria that is important?
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    Jun 16, 2011 12:21 AM GMT
    I'm gonna have to say pass.

    He just doesn't generate a leader's persona for me- which is something that is very much needed for our nation right now.

    I'm gonna have to stick with Ron Paul for now.
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    Jun 16, 2011 12:22 AM GMT
    southbeach1500, you disappoint me. I thought you might actually have some constructive ideas to consider, but apparently you have nothing to say beyond "Get the federal government out of it". You're making the same error Karl Marx made: put all your energy into complaining about what's wrong with the current system, but say hardly anything about proposed alternatives and why they would be better.

    Even if the federal government is as big of a problem as you say, simply shutting it down is no guarantee of improving things if you have no idea what to do next.

    We have a lot of problems in this world which I do not have the answers to, but at least I am honest enough to say so.

    Also, your frequent refrain that the government should not be involved in something (like education or health care) because it's UNCONSTITUTIONAL is pointless and tiresome. If you're right, then the government has been violating the Constitution for at least a century. I cannot believe the Department of Education would have survived this long without legal challenge from the courts if it were truly unconstitutional. What is your explanation for this?

    (please note that I am expressing no hatred, only disappointment).
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    Jun 16, 2011 12:22 AM GMT
    Well that's different. Although I checked his policies- some I agree with and some I don't. I'll still take him over some of the mainstream candidates.
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    Jun 16, 2011 12:26 AM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ saidAnd why would you think we would want to vote for him...Because he's gay and Republican? Sure you don't think that would be the only criteria that is important?


    Of course not. I meant that I would think you'd like him primarily because he is fiscally conservative, with the extra bonus being that he isn't bogged down by religious-right anti-women anti-gay ideology, as so many of his colleagues are.
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    Jun 16, 2011 12:29 AM GMT
    Did you ever stop to think that the federal government does need to get out of it? What's good for California, isn't always good for Alabama. What's good for New York, isn't always what's good for Oregon.

    Like with education. The federal government needs to back off and allow State Boards (who would allow local boards) to dictate the curriculum based on what kind of career market/needed skills a given area has. This would also free up a chance for school districts to re-prioritize their areas demands/needs.

    We are a huge nation, filled to the brim with people...to think that ONE legislation could possibly work for us all fosters a very divisive nation...kind of like Republican v Democrat where no one really wins...we all just kind of get screwed and one of them get's to hold the "pretty" title.

    Why is there such a lack in trust for the State to govern itself?

    MenschPress saidsouthbeach1500, you disappoint me. I thought you might actually have some constructive ideas to consider, but apparently you have nothing to say beyond "Get the federal government out of it". You're making the same error Karl Marx made: put all your energy into complaining about what's wrong with the current system, but say hardly anything about proposed alternatives and why they would be better.

    Even if the federal government is as big of a problem as you say, simply shutting it down is no guarantee of improving things if you have no idea what to do next.

    We have a lot of problems in this world which I do not have the answers to, but at least I am honest enough to say so.

    Also, your frequent refrain that the government should not be involved in something (like education or health care) because it's UNCONSTITUTIONAL is pointless and tiresome. If you're right, then the government has been violating the Constitution for at least a century. I cannot believe the Department of Education would have survived this long without legal challenge from the courts if it were truly unconstitutional. What is your explanation for this?

    (please note that I am expressing no hatred, only disappointment).
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    Jun 16, 2011 12:31 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    Cash said
    southbeach1500 said
    MenschPress said
    Wow, we AGREE on something! The current process of legal immigration and citizenship IS absurd. How would you improve it?



    I think the premise that the entire non-immigrant visa process is based on, which is, "We presume that once you are in the USA, you will stay here" is completely ridiculous.

    Example: A friend was starting his last semester at a university in London. He wanted to come visit here over the Christmas holiday. The U.S. embassy in London denied the visa because he "didn't have strong ties" outside of the USA. Are you kidding me? He invested tens of thousands of dollars in his university education, had 1 semester until graduation, and those aren't "strong ties" outside the USA?

    Example #2: Another friend of mine runs a very small company. 2 people. They also are trying to bring in an H-1B employee for a project. The Federal government requires that the employer has an office. Not a home office. An office building office. In this day and age, where telecommuting is common and many small businesses operate out of home offices, to require an office building office is insane. They went out and rented an office, totally unused since July of last year and are still waiting for the visa to be approved by the embassy officer in Europe. This is AFTER the USCIS here in the USA already approved everything.

    And people wonder why I don't want the Federal government involved in health care? Almost everything they touch turns to crap.




    MenschPress said
    Could you say more about what you WOULD do, instead of just passing the buck? Let's say we did leave it all to states and local municipalities. What would be your advice to THEM to fix/improve education?


    Well, eliminating the Department of Education and having the states and local municipalities decide what to do is a "would do" answer.

    As for advice for the states and local municipalities... beats me. But that's their responsibility.


    And THERE is the very essence of who and what you are.

    Once again, for all of the elocution...nothing is said.




    Right... So each of us is supposed to be an expert on what works in education. My answer is to let the states and local municipalities handle it. Let THEM hire their own consultants or implement their own ideas.

    But you didn't consider that, did you? You've just been looking for a "gotcha" moment and when you thought you found one, you pounced.

    Sorry, you missed the target. But I'm sure you'll try again.

    Anybody else see a problem with the contribution to this thread by "Cash?" All he's done is launch a personal attack on me. Prior to his posting, I had no idea he even existed. But apparently his hatred of me has been building and he found this to be the opportunity to vent it. Truly anti-social behavior.


    That is EXACTLY what I am saying. Each one of us has a responsibility - a holy requirement to be an EXPERT on what works in education. I should think that would be obvious to every American. Every TRUE American. You got it. You are a genius.

    Your way of coming up with half an idea or partial answer then dumping a-still-unresolved issue in another lap as you wash your hands of any further responsibilty is what I was referring to. I am not the first to mention your passing the buck.

    As far as "hatred" and "personal attacks" go, no one wanted to buy that cow when you first rode it in. They sure as hell don't want it now that you have milked it to death.



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    Jun 16, 2011 12:32 AM GMT
    A gay Jew,,......is America ready?

    icon_smile.gif

    xx
  • CuriousJockAZ

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    Jun 16, 2011 12:34 AM GMT
    MenschPress said
    CuriousJockAZ saidAnd why would you think we would want to vote for him...Because he's gay and Republican? Sure you don't think that would be the only criteria that is important?


    Of course not. I meant that I would think you'd like him primarily because he is fiscally conservative, with the extra bonus being that he isn't bogged down by religious-right anti-women anti-gay ideology, as so many of his colleagues are.


    Most Americans have never heard of him, he's never held any office, and he's never going to win for those reasons, so this whole thread is sort of silly.
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    Jun 16, 2011 12:40 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    Cash saidEach one of us has a responsibility - a holy requirement to be an EXPERT on what works in education. I should think that would be obvious to every American. Every TRUE American. You got it. You are a genius.



    Uh..... OK.


    "Your way of coming up with half an idea or partial answer then dumping a-still-unresolved issue in another lap as you wash your hands of any further responsibilty is what I was referring to. I am not the first to mention your passing the buck.

    As far as "hatred" and "personal attacks" go, no one wanted to buy that cow when you first rode it in. They sure as hell don't want it now that you have milked it to death."



    I am not surprised my sarcasm ruffled your feathers as it flew over your head but if your gonna quote -- quote me.
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    Jun 16, 2011 1:26 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said

    Well, eliminating the Department of Education and having the states and local municipalities decide what to do is a "would do" answer.

    As for advice for the states and local municipalities... beats me. But that's their responsibility.


    Actually, public education is left to the states and municipalities as it has been since the founding of the country. The DOE provides resources, suggests curricula but prior to NCLB and now Race To The Top, there was no top down DOE strategy.

    The reality is that having thousands of local school boards, each of hotbed of political activity both right and left, is not serving the interests of our country at all. I work in education reform and part of why public education is seen as a money pit is that there are virtually no universal standards. Even what is considered proficient is usually locally decided, opening up lots of manipulation of data, and dumbing down of test scores. Meanwhile, our kids don't learn history or civics anymore. Our percentage of kids fluent in a second language is abominable and most kids graduate high school with little understanding of the basics of global relations, economics, sex ed, etc.

    I think our first step as a country would have to be to increase both school year and school day and develop a standard as to what we expect American kids to be proficient in before they graduate high school.
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    Jun 16, 2011 1:44 AM GMT

    And the federal government dictates to the states how the funds they recieve should be divided up according to certain criteria and classifications. Perhaps if local teachers hands weren't tied due to federal mandates there would be an increase in class statistics.



    Christian73 said
    southbeach1500 said

    Well, eliminating the Department of Education and having the states and local municipalities decide what to do is a "would do" answer.

    As for advice for the states and local municipalities... beats me. But that's their responsibility.


    Actually, public education is left to the states and municipalities as it has been since the founding of the country. The DOE provides resources, suggests curricula but prior to NCLB and now Race To The Top, there was no top down DOE strategy.

    The reality is that having thousands of local school boards, each of hotbed of political activity both right and left, is not serving the interests of our country at all. I work in education reform and part of why public education is seen as a money pit is that there are virtually no universal standards. Even what is considered proficient is usually locally decided, opening up lots of manipulation of data, and dumbing down of test scores. Meanwhile, our kids don't learn history or civics anymore. Our percentage of kids fluent in a second language is abominable and most kids graduate high school with little understanding of the basics of global relations, economics, sex ed, etc.

    I think our first step as a country would have to be to increase both school year and school day and develop a standard as to what we expect American kids to be proficient in before they graduate high school.
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    Jun 16, 2011 2:24 AM GMT
    Student_90 saidA gay Jew,,......is America ready?

    icon_smile.gif

    xx


    Oy Vey!
    Would his partner be First Lady still? icon_razz.gif
    hahahaha
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    Jun 16, 2011 3:13 AM GMT
    Christian73 said
    southbeach1500 said

    Well, eliminating the Department of Education and having the states and local municipalities decide what to do is a "would do" answer.

    As for advice for the states and local municipalities... beats me. But that's their responsibility.


    Actually, public education is left to the states and municipalities as it has been since the founding of the country. The DOE provides resources, suggests curricula but prior to NCLB and now Race To The Top, there was no top down DOE strategy.

    The reality is that having thousands of local school boards, each of hotbed of political activity both right and left, is not serving the interests of our country at all. I work in education reform and part of why public education is seen as a money pit is that there are virtually no universal standards. Even what is considered proficient is usually locally decided, opening up lots of manipulation of data, and dumbing down of test scores. Meanwhile, our kids don't learn history or civics anymore. Our percentage of kids fluent in a second language is abominable and most kids graduate high school with little understanding of the basics of global relations, economics, sex ed, etc.

    I think our first step as a country would have to be to increase both school year and school day and develop a standard as to what we expect American kids to be proficient in before they graduate high school.


    This, Christian, is why I highly respect you as a poster. Speaking from a personal level, I've met people from all over the country; mostly Texas though (for some reason, I swear I'm one of the few people from my hometown who don't have roots down there) and my high school classmates have told me that the schools down there suck. That's why they wind up in Minnesota- because the school system as a whole up in Minnesota is better than down in Texas. Even locally it still depends from district to district. I grew up in a house that's on the border between two districts- one is rather large and is also hit-and-miss, whereas the other basically has had its ass kissed many times over by magazines like Newsweek. Technically the school whose ass has been kissed is closer. Where was I districted? The shitty school with school spirit.

    I looked them both up and talked to people from both schools, and I believe that being sent to the shitty school that's farther away left me behind a little more compared to the better school that's closer. (Also I would have saved so much on gas) The point being that if my old high school was like the other high school, or if the Texans had high schools that were as good as said high school, then I believe I probably would have been at a better advantage. So investing in similar education standards- whether you're in Minnesota or Mississippi- can work and I think it'll put students at an advantage- especially for military families that move around a lot.
  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Jun 16, 2011 5:15 AM GMT
    "I hate myself and I don't deserve equal rights.
    That's why I'm a gay man running for President as a Republican."
    --Fred Karger