Don't Call Me White

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    Jun 16, 2011 4:20 AM GMT


    This song is an intro to some things ive been pondering that is a frequent topic on RJ, namely, racism and cultural discrimination...

    Now I do not aim to start a flame war or anything, I would only like to tell my personal story with discrimination and discrimination, and try to put them in a bigger perspective, and thereby increase respect for one another.

    Most racism I felt growing up, (like in the song above) was not for being "coloured" but for being "white".. since I live in a non-white majority country... I have often been jokingly called "white boy" by my black friends.. which would actually rather hurt, as generally it is not a good thing to be considered.... To the point where I had few coloured friends, and mostly white or mixed ones

    When i went to europe, things went the opposite way, all of a sudden I became "coloured" and treated as such.... as much as I tried to integrate with the European population, I tended to be accepted much more by the coloured immigrant population in a white majority country, and most of my friends were other "immigrants"

    So being relegated in both my own country as well as a foreign country to be a minority, i finally traveled to South Asia, where to my great surprise, I was more or less ousted by the Asians for being "white" again and all my friends wound up being North American or German people of white colour....

    Some of the things I would hear from either side of the divide really rather shocked me inthe process... When with the "cloured" people I was lumped into the category of the rich foreign westerners with whom I had little culturally in common except that I was western, however, these westerners were mostly northerners who considered me a southerner, a Latino, a mediterranean, a lazy sun-worshipper that eats and dines and parties with family all day, nontheless, they would involve me in much of their northern ridicule of "non-northern" culture, superstition, and backwardness...

    Now I became very frustrated, since culturally I had muchmore in common with Asians (family closeness, warmth, social duty etc) but was ousted for being white... and stuck in the European/North American mentality, I had to endure much ridicule from them about the Asians, them assuming I was "western" and thought like they did...

    One of the things that hurt me most in my experiences with northerners,was the harsh ridicule me for living with my parents , something which is heavily looked down upon by northerners, but is expected and honoured in southern and eastern ones....

    So now to me really the question is not "where do I belong," because I feel Im a citizen of the world and believe in trying to understand cultural differences, something i found westerners did very little, and not to exclude other ethnic groups, something i found easterners did very little, and through it all, I found the "coloured" people to be much MORE racist and exclusionist than the "uncoloured people," conversely, I found "un-coloured" culture to be much less tolerant of "coloured' cultures...

    in short, I am left with just one thing... stop putting me in boxes haha, the world wont work in boxes, and everyone is guilty of doing it.. even me lol

    Excelsior
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    Jun 16, 2011 4:21 AM GMT
    1067629-cool_story_bro_super.gif
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    Jun 16, 2011 4:23 AM GMT
    Anduru said1067629-cool_story_bro_super.gif


    lol, this was ridiculing me wasnt it? It seems oddly appropriate lol
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    Jun 16, 2011 4:25 AM GMT
    EU with the exception of the UK, Romania, and I guess some eastern European countries were there are white supremacists, tolerate colored people, some even embrace. Western culture when I travel to the states I see how poorly African Americans are treated... and its not even hidden. India has a caste system and sadly it discriminates based on skin tone. The lighter you are, the more "beautiful" you are considered. Things change but as said in the movie Color Purple somethings will always remain the same.

    On a lighter note..

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    Jun 16, 2011 4:34 AM GMT
    [quote][cite]5ebastian said[/cite]EU with the exception of the UK, Romania, and I guess some eastern European countries were there are white supremacists, tolerate colored people, some even embrace. Western culture when I travel to the states I see how poorly African Americans are treated... and its not even hidden. India has a caste system and sadly it discriminates based on skin tone. The lighter you are, the more "beautiful" you are considered. Things change but as said in the movie Color Purple somethings will always remain the same.

    [quote]

    Yes it is sad, its one of the reasons why I am in doubts about migrating back to the US again, because of the rampant ethnic divides there.... Even here there is racism, but its much less divisive and theres a bigger group of "mixed people" or at least, we are more visible here... in the US, mixed people (like Obama) go back into the familiar boxes
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    Jun 16, 2011 4:55 AM GMT
    Move to a major metropolis of gays and hipsters. i.e. Chicago or Toronto
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    Jun 16, 2011 5:01 AM GMT
    Greenhopper said[quote][cite]5ebastian said[/cite]EU with the exception of the UK, Romania, and I guess some eastern European countries were there are white supremacists, tolerate colored people, some even embrace. Western culture when I travel to the states I see how poorly African Americans are treated... and its not even hidden. India has a caste system and sadly it discriminates based on skin tone. The lighter you are, the more "beautiful" you are considered. Things change but as said in the movie Color Purple somethings will always remain the same.

    [quote]

    Yes it is sad, its one of the reasons why I am in doubts about migrating back to the US again, because of the rampant ethnic divides there.... Even here there is racism, but its much less divisive and theres a bigger group of "mixed people" or at least, we are more visible here... in the US, mixed people (like Obama) go back into the familiar boxes



    Thankyou for posting. It is super insightful. I want to respond to this but I had jury duty today and I am too exhausted to think. But i will tomorrow. Thanks for putting this out there, it's really a new perspective on something that many of us feel we know everything about.
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    Jun 16, 2011 5:10 AM GMT
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    Jun 16, 2011 5:22 AM GMT
    Iceblink said


    What a great song, it really hits home for me, as i even know family in many colours that discriminate in other colour directions, lighter OR darker lol
  • stee99

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    Jun 16, 2011 5:30 AM GMT
    im probably gonna get called god only knows what for saying this but i think there's a real perception that only 'white' people can be racist, when in fact anyone can racially/culturally biased against anyone else but somehow its minimised or ignored unless a 'white' is saying it.
    case in point, a maori MP over here was quoted in the news as saying he would 'very worried' if his daughter bought a white fella home and sent an email to a concerned constituent saying ''
    White mother******* have been raping our lands and ripping us off for centuries''
    and nothing other than media attention happened. Would the general public have reacted simmilarly if it had been a white MP saying things about maori? i really doubt it to be frank.
    just my 2c
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    Jun 16, 2011 5:34 AM GMT
    You know I have lived in Houston and I have yet to encounter racism, maybe cause I live in Southwest Houston which is a gigantic hodgepodge of Asians, Africans, Latinos, and African Americans. But I really fail to see the rampant racism/ mistreatment of blacks or the "other", as Said would say, that y'all are alluding to.
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    Jun 16, 2011 5:51 AM GMT
    cold saidWhat's the difference between your terms 'culturally intolerant' and 'culturally excursionist'? Genuinely curious.


    Very good question, Cold



    Culturally intolerant:
    when "other" cultures are looked down upon or condemned as "wrong" .. however, you may allow others to integrate, as long as they adapt to the "right" culture.... a typical one is my Austrian friend who said "these people are interesting, but they are totally CRAZY!!!!" ... expecting me to agree with him and if I agreed with the "crazy" people he would simply brush it off as an oddity.... he would be condemning others based on his own set of cultural norms..... but he would still allow others into his "in"-group

    In short: these cultures will allow others to integrate in their culture, but only by adapting and setting aside other cultural norms because they are perceived as "wierd" ...



    Culturally exclusionist:
    when other cultures are considered "different" and accepted as such, ... however, no cultural mixing will happen here... an example: were my Asian friends treated me as "different" and gave me a status separate from their own social caste system, thus not allowing me to "belong" ... I was not expected to learn or understand their norms and would always be an "outsider," ....

    In short: these would accept others as being "different" and not judge others by their norms, but will not allow others to integrate in theirs...


    both are essentially a form of distinguishing "them" from "us" and I give extreme examples here, which I have encountered in real life, there's a certain degree of both in all cases along a cultural spectrum, (and some cultures are more "open" than others of course)... either way, I didnt like it of course lol :/
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    Jun 16, 2011 5:53 AM GMT
    stee99 saidim probably gonna get called god only knows what for saying this but i think there's a real perception that only 'white' people can be racist, when in fact anyone can racially/culturally biased against anyone else but somehow its minimised or ignored unless a 'white' is saying it.
    case in point, a maori MP over here was quoted in the news as saying he would 'very worried' if his daughter bought a white fella home and sent an email to a concerned constituent saying ''
    White mother******* have been raping our lands and ripping us off for centuries''
    and nothing other than media attention happened. Would the general public have reacted simmilarly if it had been a white MP saying things about maori? i really doubt it to be frank.
    just my 2c


    yes, exactly like I posted.. in my life, I have heard far MORE racism AGAINST whites than the other way around...
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    Jun 16, 2011 5:55 AM GMT
    mayBbignow saidYou always got hate....
    sorry


    However(and based by your pics) you can be some different races of your choice. It may not feel good but being different has its advantages


    hehe funny enough, I feel you are totally right, I got mostly stuck with people who hated, with very few who didnt... and you're right that being mixed has the added advantage of "blending in" easily amongst many ethnicities...
    (I've been taken for everything from Argentinian to Lebanese).... Nontheless, Ive always noticed the same kind of "in-grouping" vs "out-grouping" like box thinking, and its always bothered me
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    Jun 16, 2011 6:03 AM GMT
    Your story is very interesting and while It was probably hard on you at times, it seems to me that your 'shining' out as an exceptionally insightful young man because of it. You can be a great influence in any circle your in.

    I've traveled to Europe several times and grew up going to school on the campus of a private University in Michigan with friends from all over the world, non American born students made up close to half of our school population so we lost a lot of prejudice early in life. I've had a close 'friend' come visit me from Novi Sad in Eastern Europe and from what he told me it is like here in the states where the northerners look down on southerners. It seems odd to me since I've lived here in the south for nearly as long now as I lived up in Michigan, in many ways we are ahead here in the south, except for in prejudice.

    Prejudice it seems to me is totally based on misconceptions and perceptions mostly from the way we've grown up and what we're told or read through life. I am hoping that with the internet making our world so 'small' that it will help break down prejudice.

    Some of the problem too is from ethnic groups who seem far too quick to attack any criticism or disagreement, as racist and being hated, its seems once that wall goes up, you cannot cut it back down. Its all quite interesting and the thing that works the best to cut through prejudice is being open minded and getting to know people from all the eithnicities that we can.
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    Jun 16, 2011 6:03 AM GMT
    Greenhopper said
    stee99 saidim probably gonna get called god only knows what for saying this but i think there's a real perception that only 'white' people can be racist, when in fact anyone can racially/culturally biased against anyone else but somehow its minimised or ignored unless a 'white' is saying it.
    case in point, a maori MP over here was quoted in the news as saying he would 'very worried' if his daughter bought a white fella home and sent an email to a concerned constituent saying ''
    White mother******* have been raping our lands and ripping us off for centuries''
    and nothing other than media attention happened. Would the general public have reacted simmilarly if it had been a white MP saying things about maori? i really doubt it to be frank.
    just my 2c


    yes, exactly like I posted.. in my life, I have heard far MORE racism AGAINST whites than the other way around...


    I know this sounds terrible... but racism against whites makes more sense, than the other way around. If racism ever makes sense...
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    Jun 16, 2011 6:14 AM GMT
    mayBbignow said
    Anduru said1067629-cool_story_bro_super.gif


    Too funny
    so mean


    lol not really, I kind of like it, even though he meant it wrong, it didnt come out that way to me icon_razz.gif
  • stee99

    Posts: 317

    Jun 16, 2011 6:17 AM GMT
    Suecer4 said
    Greenhopper said
    stee99 saidim probably gonna get called god only knows what for saying this but i think there's a real perception that only 'white' people can be racist, when in fact anyone can racially/culturally biased against anyone else but somehow its minimised or ignored unless a 'white' is saying it.
    case in point, a maori MP over here was quoted in the news as saying he would 'very worried' if his daughter bought a white fella home and sent an email to a concerned constituent saying ''
    White mother******* have been raping our lands and ripping us off for centuries''
    and nothing other than media attention happened. Would the general public have reacted simmilarly if it had been a white MP saying things about maori? i really doubt it to be frank.
    just my 2c


    yes, exactly like I posted.. in my life, I have heard far MORE racism AGAINST whites than the other way around...


    I know this sounds terrible... but racism against whites makes more sense, than the other way around. If racism ever makes sense...


    how does it make more sense?
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    Jun 16, 2011 6:49 AM GMT
    stee99 said
    Suecer4 said
    Greenhopper said
    stee99 saidim probably gonna get called god only knows what for saying this but i think there's a real perception that only 'white' people can be racist, when in fact anyone can racially/culturally biased against anyone else but somehow its minimised or ignored unless a 'white' is saying it.
    case in point, a maori MP over here was quoted in the news as saying he would 'very worried' if his daughter bought a white fella home and sent an email to a concerned constituent saying ''
    White mother******* have been raping our lands and ripping us off for centuries''
    and nothing other than media attention happened. Would the general public have reacted simmilarly if it had been a white MP saying things about maori? i really doubt it to be frank.
    just my 2c


    yes, exactly like I posted.. in my life, I have heard far MORE racism AGAINST whites than the other way around...


    I know this sounds terrible... but racism against whites makes more sense, than the other way around. If racism ever makes sense...


    how does it make more sense?



    Cause the white man deserves it.


    funny-pictures-village.jpg
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    Jun 16, 2011 6:54 AM GMT
    stee99 said
    Suecer4 said
    Greenhopper said
    stee99 saidim probably gonna get called god only knows what for saying this but i think there's a real perception that only 'white' people can be racist, when in fact anyone can racially/culturally biased against anyone else but somehow its minimised or ignored unless a 'white' is saying it.
    case in point, a maori MP over here was quoted in the news as saying he would 'very worried' if his daughter bought a white fella home and sent an email to a concerned constituent saying ''
    White mother******* have been raping our lands and ripping us off for centuries''
    and nothing other than media attention happened. Would the general public have reacted simmilarly if it had been a white MP saying things about maori? i really doubt it to be frank.
    just my 2c


    yes, exactly like I posted.. in my life, I have heard far MORE racism AGAINST whites than the other way around...


    I know this sounds terrible... but racism against whites makes more sense, than the other way around. If racism ever makes sense...


    how does it make more sense?


    I think he means it just occurs more often, not that there's a sensible reasoning behind it.. there are historical reasons for all forms of racial tensions of course, it didnt come out of nowhere... but very often its simply a result of "boxes" and prejudices
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    Jun 16, 2011 6:55 AM GMT
    didntreadkatyperryxudm.gif

    jk my future husband, I feel for you and as an Iranian-American, I have felt that also sometimes, but oh well, you just gotta brush it off and stay as hot and adorable as you are.
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    Jun 16, 2011 6:55 AM GMT
    stee99 said
    Suecer4 said
    Greenhopper said
    stee99 saidim probably gonna get called god only knows what for saying this but i think there's a real perception that only 'white' people can be racist, when in fact anyone can racially/culturally biased against anyone else but somehow its minimised or ignored unless a 'white' is saying it.
    case in point, a maori MP over here was quoted in the news as saying he would 'very worried' if his daughter bought a white fella home and sent an email to a concerned constituent saying ''
    White mother******* have been raping our lands and ripping us off for centuries''
    and nothing other than media attention happened. Would the general public have reacted simmilarly if it had been a white MP saying things about maori? i really doubt it to be frank.
    just my 2c


    yes, exactly like I posted.. in my life, I have heard far MORE racism AGAINST whites than the other way around...


    I know this sounds terrible... but racism against whites makes more sense, than the other way around. If racism ever makes sense...


    how does it make more sense?


    He probably means white people were the ones who started it. White people were the ones messing with all the other races first.

    With your example of this Maori MP talking about white people raping and stealing from his people, was what he was saying true? If there's any validity to his claim, there's your answer as to why things seem a little unfair regarding who can get away with saying things that others can't.
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    Jun 16, 2011 7:19 AM GMT
    Kev1 said
    stee99 said
    Suecer4 said
    Greenhopper said
    stee99 saidim probably gonna get called god only knows what for saying this but i think there's a real perception that only 'white' people can be racist, when in fact anyone can racially/culturally biased against anyone else but somehow its minimised or ignored unless a 'white' is saying it.
    case in point, a maori MP over here was quoted in the news as saying he would 'very worried' if his daughter bought a white fella home and sent an email to a concerned constituent saying ''
    White mother******* have been raping our lands and ripping us off for centuries''
    and nothing other than media attention happened. Would the general public have reacted simmilarly if it had been a white MP saying things about maori? i really doubt it to be frank.
    just my 2c


    yes, exactly like I posted.. in my life, I have heard far MORE racism AGAINST whites than the other way around...


    I know this sounds terrible... but racism against whites makes more sense, than the other way around. If racism ever makes sense...


    how does it make more sense?


    He probably means white people were the ones who started it. White people were the ones messing with all the other races first.

    With your example of this Maori MP talking about white people raping and stealing from his people, was what he was saying true? If there's any validity to his claim, there's your answer as to why things seem a little unfair regarding who can get away with saying things that others can't.


    yeah bt thats just laying blame, the truth of the matter is that there were wars everywhere, its not a "white" phenomenon at all... Its a human phenomenon.. atrocities have been and are still committed between African tribes and nations, between Asian ones, and between Native American ones.... its too easy to blame ONE race when everyone is guilty of doing it
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    Jun 16, 2011 7:20 AM GMT
    luvitohateit saiddidntreadkatyperryxudm.gif

    jk my future husband, I feel for you and as an Iranian-American, I have felt that also sometimes, but oh well, you just gotta brush it off and stay as hot and adorable as you are.


    Lol you are too sweet
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    Jun 16, 2011 7:36 AM GMT
    stee99 said
    Suecer4 said
    Greenhopper said
    stee99 saidim probably gonna get called god only knows what for saying this but i think there's a real perception that only 'white' people can be racist, when in fact anyone can racially/culturally biased against anyone else but somehow its minimised or ignored unless a 'white' is saying it.
    case in point, a maori MP over here was quoted in the news as saying he would 'very worried' if his daughter bought a white fella home and sent an email to a concerned constituent saying ''
    White mother******* have been raping our lands and ripping us off for centuries''
    and nothing other than media attention happened. Would the general public have reacted simmilarly if it had been a white MP saying things about maori? i really doubt it to be frank.
    just my 2c


    yes, exactly like I posted.. in my life, I have heard far MORE racism AGAINST whites than the other way around...


    I know this sounds terrible... but racism against whites makes more sense, than the other way around. If racism ever makes sense...


    how does it make more sense?


    Come on now, I can't imagine that you are truly asking this question. The fact of the matter is that the white race advanced to a certain point when they pushed from their home continent, and began to inhabit, sometimes forcefully other parts of the earth. They were of course most successful in the Americas, as a result of guns, disease, and some other factors. The same could not happen in Africa because of Malaria, thus their penetration was not guaranteed, but that did not stop them from taking Blacks as slaves, or pushing into South Africa and making war with the inhabitants. In Asia they met a behemoth in China, but still used gunboat diplomacy to forcefully open up Japan and force feed China with opium, while subduing the Indians, destroying the Kingdom of Siam, and making French Indochina. What's my point? It is historically, and indeed till this day the white race largely controls the world and has shaped it to run for its benefit, the length of that dominance is entirely dependent on the rise of China and India. Racism against whites, which I do not condone, and indeed find very wrong, stands largely as a reaction to the original racism of whites against every other race.

    Disclaimer: I am not racist, my mother is a tragic mulatto so I have been well versed on the horrors of racism coming from both sides. I just see the incidence of racism from the minority races, minority in terms of power not number, as a result of the original racial attitudes of the whites. But seriously people, don't be racist its stupid, we are all freaking human and our beauty lay in the fact that we come in all colors, shape, size, orientation, what have you. Have any of you ever seen a tree hating on a shrub? NO, didn't think so...what?