Fem or Straight Acting who's the real man?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 16, 2008 5:48 AM GMT
    I stopped creating Forums after people started attacking me when I tried to bring up ides for conversation but hers is one last thing I wanted to talk about.

    So we all know the topic all too well. We know about the Fem guy, the straight acting guy, but which one of them is a real man?.... none. A real man doesn't need to act any way. A real man acts the way they truly are inside as a person, not the way they are supposed to act, not the way they want to act, the ones who act like their true selves are real men

    A straight "Acting" man is much as less of a man as a Fem "Acting" man. You know when someone is acting really fake it makes you feel awkward when your around them and its uncomfortable. They are all still boys. So I say what kind of guy do I want to date and find most attractive?........ is a real MAN
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 16, 2008 5:52 AM GMT
    ItsMyLife saidWe know about the Fem guy, the straight acting guy, but which one of them is a real man?.... none.

    Both.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 16, 2008 5:54 AM GMT
    This is all Huge Titles created by man in gerneral...IF it wasent for socity and the ability to question ourselfs we would still be crawling in the grass hunting for prey....But in my opinion...I think if the way you act puts a smile on your face and makes you feal light and able to move and be free..then You being who your ment to be.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 16, 2008 8:14 AM GMT
    The concept of a Real man is icon_rolleyes.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 16, 2008 11:59 AM GMT
    Both are men with different gender identities/expressions. If you mean who wears the pants type deal I think it can be neither, both, or depend on the context of the relationship.

    http://www.queersunited.blogspot.com
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Apr 16, 2008 12:06 PM GMT
    For me how one comes across doesn't stipulate whether he is a "real man"...


    I had hoped ItsMyLife was going to get it, but seemed to miss. "Perception by others" as a man really has very little to do with it.

    What makes a man a man is a compilation of things... his treatment of other people, his acceptance of responsibility, his ability to move forward with personal challenge, kindness, ability to take fault, to deal with criticism and not return it.... and to accept himself, whether fem or straight acting.


    Also, why would you be attacked for bringing up ideas (like this one) in a forum?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 16, 2008 3:47 PM GMT
    A man is determined by genetics. Feel free to have surgery or wear as much lip gloss as you'd like because you'll still be a man.

    Socially and legally someone might demand to be accepted as a women but in reality he's still a dude.
  • jarhead5536

    Posts: 1348

    Apr 16, 2008 3:52 PM GMT
    Oh boy. Um, the guy exhibiting stereotypically male behavior and mannerisms is more clearly identifiable as a man by just about everyone due to predetermined societal norms. The guy exhibiting whatever behavior feels comfortable and natural, regardless of what is expected, is less clearly identifiable gender identity-wise, but the bravery of doing so is a rather admirable masculine quality.

    It's taken me a very long time to be able to say that.
  • Muunrakur

    Posts: 169

    Apr 16, 2008 3:57 PM GMT
    I think semantics sometimes gets in the way of a good discussion like this one. My circle of friends has always associated "straight acting" with guys who are essentially putting on a show of how manly they are, and its invariably linked to being closeted or self-loathing.

    I'm not saying thats what it means, necessarily, just pointing out that different people from different areas have different interpretations of what some terms mean.

    When you guys talk about "straight acting" I assume you're referring to what my friends simply call "a regular guy"; someone who's just 'guy-like' and not over-the-top in either direction.
  • mcwclewis

    Posts: 1701

    Apr 16, 2008 3:59 PM GMT
    Trance23 saidA man is determined by genetics. Feel free to have surgery or wear as much lip gloss as you'd like because you'll still be a man.

    Socially and legally someone might demand to be accepted as a women but in reality he's still a dude.


    What about the 1 out of 1,000 intersexed people who are born with both genders reproductive organs? Half the time the doctors will do corrective surgery to assign a gender to a child without even telling the parents. A lot of times they dont guess the right one.





    This forum makes me think of a song by Tori Amos... I guess its actually a cover but Im not sure who the original artist is. Its called "Real Men" and its about this very topic.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 16, 2008 4:08 PM GMT
    jarhead5536 saidOh boy. Um, the guy exhibiting stereotypically male behavior and mannerisms is more clearly identifiable as a man by just about everyone due to predetermined societal norms. The guy exhibiting whatever behavior feels comfortable and natural, regardless of what is expected, is less clearly identifiable gender identity-wise, but the bravery of doing so is a rather admirable masculine quality.

    It's taken me a very long time to be able to say that.


    i'm glad you can : )
  • auryn

    Posts: 2061

    Apr 16, 2008 4:17 PM GMT
    Trance23 saidA man is determined by genetics. Feel free to have surgery or wear as much lip gloss as you'd like because you'll still be a man.

    Socially and legally someone might demand to be accepted as a women but in reality he's still a dude.


    Isn't that what Mrs. Garrison said on last week's South Park when she decided to revert back to Mr. Garrison? icon_wink.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 16, 2008 4:30 PM GMT
    Well I guess my idea might have been lost or I didn't write it clearly. I was trying to say is that it doesn't matter if you act Fem or straight, your only a man in my eyes and not a boy ( I mean in a sense of being grown up and mature)if you are being who you truly are on the inside instead of acting like someone your not. That is what I mean. It came from my own experiences and from talking to a bunch of other guys. Like before you come out some people act more straight so no one would know. And then when they come out they sometimes start acting more Fem than they truly are so they can fit in or be noticed. But when they finally become a man, with my definition of maturity not in masculinity, they realize who they really are is somewhere in the middle no matter what side it is on. And when they are being themselves no matter if is Fem or Butch they are being true to themselves and being an adult. With a better sense of self.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 16, 2008 4:37 PM GMT
    HndsmKansan saidFor me how one comes across doesn't stipulate whether he is a "real man"...


    I had hoped ItsMyLife was going to get it, but seemed to miss. "Perception by others" as a man really has very little to do with it.

    What makes a man a man is a compilation of things... his treatment of other people, his acceptance of responsibility, his ability to move forward with personal challenge, kindness, ability to take fault, to deal with criticism and not return it.... and to accept himself, whether fem or straight acting.


    Also, why would you be attacked for bringing up ideas (like this one) in a forum?



    I understand that all of these things make a man in my definition I was more focusing on the debate of Fem or straight acting and acceptance of self and a developed sense of self identity. And that you are acting immature when you are pretending to be someone else, still playing dress-up, instead of being yourself. But Its hard for me to get my feelings out online and I agree with what you said 100% but I didn't focus on it all and its always better done in a real conversation instead of a forum. things always get misunderstood and I seam like an ass
  • auryn

    Posts: 2061

    Apr 16, 2008 4:37 PM GMT
    As long as the guy is geniunely acting in whichever way, why should we care? It's when he feels he has to over compensate that I have a problem. I've known guys that turned up the "femininity" when they finally decided to come out because they'd lived by societies norms for so long and their softer side was repressed.

    The main good I see from forums like this is the encouragement for people to just live and fuck what everyone else has to say. If they don't like it, they don't like it. If you're genuinely acting how you feel then let that be normal for you. If you're still trying to figure yourself out, fine; just try not to hurt others along the way.

    Depending on the situation, I can go from Raging Bitch Queen to Butch Boy in 2.6 seconds, then back without breaking a nail. (Speaking of nails... God I need manicure, but I think I'll just rip these hang nails out since I don't have my kit.)
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 16, 2008 4:41 PM GMT
    Usually it's the presence of the Y chromosome with matching plumbing that's a dead give away for me. And so long as they gender identify themselves as male they can have whatever typical or atypical combination of chromosomes as far as I'm concerned.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 16, 2008 4:42 PM GMT


    Depending on the situation, I can go from Raging Bitch Queen to Butch Boy in 2.6 seconds, then back without breaking a nail. (Speaking of nails... God I need manicure, but I think I'll just rip these hang nails out since I don't have my kit.)[/quote]


    See your acting like who you truly are because your happy with it. You feel right and happy when your not trying to be someone else am I right or am I just full of shit?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 16, 2008 4:49 PM GMT
    ItsMyLife -

    The big ol' queen in me wants to gush and give you a huge hug and emote, "awww, I get exactly where you're coming from, and what you've clarified makes perfect sense!"

    The butch jock in me wants to amble up, pound you on the back, and drawl, "aw shit, you're alright, bro."
  • MisterT

    Posts: 1272

    Apr 16, 2008 4:53 PM GMT
    I've been masc since puberty, before and after coming out, have never seen it necessary to act like something I'm not. I can see and understand why a fem guy might try to act "straight" to fit in at work, or in the armed forces, but outside of that, just be who you are. I'm not fem(except after a few glasses of wine perhaps) and don't understand why someone would purposely try to behave fem unless they actually are.

    I'm not going to judge someone fore being themselves, only when trying to hide who they really are.
  • auryn

    Posts: 2061

    Apr 16, 2008 5:05 PM GMT
    ItsMyLife said

    Depending on the situation, I can go from Raging Bitch Queen to Butch Boy in 2.6 seconds, then back without breaking a nail. (Speaking of nails... God I need manicure, but I think I'll just rip these hang nails out since I don't have my kit.)



    See your acting like who you truly are because your happy with it. You feel right and happy when your not trying to be someone else am I right or am I just full of shit?[/quote]

    Nope, not full of shit.
  • SoDakGuy

    Posts: 1862

    Apr 16, 2008 5:08 PM GMT
    Fem or Straight Acting ... who's the real man?

    Whoever is comfortable in their own skin. That is a real man.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 16, 2008 5:10 PM GMT
    Fem or masculine, neither defines a man. A squeeky toy compared to a bass drum has no affect on the actions a person takes.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 16, 2008 5:43 PM GMT
    SoDakGuy saidFem or Straight Acting ... who's the real man?

    Whoever is comfortable in their own skin. That is a real man.


    AMEN...

    Why are we still so hung up on this pre-packaged view of masculinity and manhood. This topic is TIRED and just fosters even more separation.

    I know some flaming queens that have been through things that would make you breakdown and cry. Just cause they might dress in drag, lisp a little and couldn't throw a ball doesn't make them less of a man.

    I will tell you that gay men who feel the pressure to be and act like "St8 men" are not real men in my world.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 16, 2008 11:04 PM GMT
    I can't stand the arrogance some gay men put on when talking about other gays.
    It's simply to mask their own insecurities.
    I once dated a man who ignorantly suffocated me with what I call 'gay cannibalism.'
    We would sit at dinner while he droned on and on about the 'queens in Montrose,'. (Houston)
    He would talk in an ultra-high voice and flop his wrists around to be 'mock'-effeminate.
    I sat across from him, silent, visualizing my fist impacting his smug face.
    When I called him on his internalized homophobia, he went ballistic!
    It was the beginning of the end for us. (Amen.)
    Being confident about one's identity can help keep you out of depression, away from alcoholism, substance abuse and keep you proud of who you are.
    I've heard it before....mainly from other gay men.
    "Why are you "proud" of being gay?"
    Why should I be proud?
    Because I do what I want despite the millions of people who hate my kind; I wear what I want to wear, talk how I want to talk, dance and live the way I want in the face of others' judgment and condemnation.
    Internalized homophobia is killing us.
    Maybe it is not obvious at first glance, but trying to navigate through a straight world with an unsupportive and often destructive gay community pushes us towards extinction and farther from progress.
    Never will gays be able to free themselves of depressive lifestyles if we can't purge our own feelings of self-hate.

    Billy

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Apr 16, 2008 11:36 PM GMT
    Phxariz08

    I'm not concurring with you on everything just to follow you around...but I totally agree with you here, too : )

    Acting "straight" in a gay world, all the while being gay? pfffffttttt they can look at you like you're nutz.

    Be yourself, and you won't have to worry about anyone else. That's how I see it!