Ya'all Read This Vancouver Thingy?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 25, 2011 11:35 PM GMT
    http://riot2011frontlines.tumblr.com/post/6860088383/please-stop-apologizing-a-police-officers-letter-to
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    Jun 26, 2011 3:45 AM GMT
    I truly love this article icon_smile.gif

    This part especially

    "You owe Vancouver and the surrounding population more than mere words. Don’t you dare ask for our forgiveness without taking responsibility. You can’t fix life altering injuries with an “I’m Sorry”. You can’t repay someone’s car loan with a YouTube video. You ask that people leave you and your family alone but you offer no way to replace priceless losses."


    Assholes who protest and picket should have to stay in a controlled ring of some sort where if people wish to pay attention to them, they could. Otherwise, theyre criminals and shall be treated as such with the necessary force to disable.

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    Jun 26, 2011 4:00 AM GMT
    Loved it, I still get pissed hearing of the drunk morons who trashed Vancouver, I hope they get what's coming to them.
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    Jun 26, 2011 4:17 AM GMT
    pat3rob said
    Assholes who protest and picket should have to stay in a controlled ring of some sort where if people wish to pay attention to them, they could. Otherwise, theyre criminals and shall be treated as such with the necessary force to disable.


    Hmm, I hope you're not equating the rioters with protesters who have a legitimate concern. The ones in Vancouver were for the most part drunken middle class assholes who think they deserve everything and are responsible for nothing. They had no cause to protest except their collective temper tantrum and possibly, as is now being analyzed in the media, the loss of hope for a future in our society, i.e. a lost generation. Unfortunately I arrived back to Vancouver after a year away on that very night. Not a nice homecoming.
  • TrentGrad

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    Jun 26, 2011 4:19 AM GMT
    It's a great article.

    I have to admit, the whole thing pissed me off...but not as much as that idiot rower (I don't give a shit if he won a gold medal or not...he's a putz) and that 17 year old punk with his crocodile tear apology, suggesting that Canadians shouldn't have a problem with an idiot who tried to blow up a police car representing us (ON OUR DIME) at the Olympics or other international events!

    Apparently the rower (Adam Kreek) thinks the punk athlete (Nathan Kotylak) should be cut a break because he's a good athlete...which invites the question: would he be cutting a break to a lesser athlete, or is he really advocating preferential treatment for himself and people like him?

    I'll forgive the kid...I just don't want him representing my country!

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    Jun 26, 2011 4:32 AM GMT
    Life is about choices, whether intoxicated or not, the choices these people made lead to the destruction of property and the injury of many others.

    I'm curious why the state they will "do anything" to be forgiven. It's easy, go to jail for what you have admitted to.

    The elite athlete just fucked up his life, let this be a lesson kids, don't be an asshole and then try and weasel out of it.

    He should be crying, what he has worked his whole life for has been taken away by his own stupidity. It takes some serious intent to stuff rag in a gas tank and light it on fire. Its too bad he isnt 18.

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    Jun 26, 2011 4:49 AM GMT
    pat3rob saidI truly love this article icon_smile.gif

    This part especially

    "You owe Vancouver and the surrounding population more than mere words. Don’t you dare ask for our forgiveness without taking responsibility. You can’t fix life altering injuries with an “I’m Sorry”. You can’t repay someone’s car loan with a YouTube video. You ask that people leave you and your family alone but you offer no way to replace priceless losses."


    Assholes who protest and picket should have to stay in a controlled ring of some sort where if people wish to pay attention to them, they could. Otherwise, theyre criminals and shall be treated as such with the necessary force to disable.



    Utter nonsense. Please check your idiocy at the door, thanks very much.

    This is referring to a RIOT by drunken hockey fans, NOT a protest.

    "Assholes who protest and picket"... i.e., people who exercise their democratic RIGHTS, are according to you, "assholes."

    "should have to stay in a controlled ring"... i.e., people who exercise their democratic RIGHTS should be treated undemocratically, as if living in some totalitarian society. Because if they are not treated like sheep and cattle, they are - according to you - "criminals," and thus, "shall be treated as such with the necessary force to disable."

    In other words, what you're saying is that people who exercise democratic rights and freedoms should have those freedoms and rights curtailed to a "controlled ring of some sort" or be treated like criminals.

    Tell me, oh logical one, how far do you think gay rights would have progressed had the gays been permitted to only express free speech or protest in a "controlled ring"? That way, as you so elegantly explained, "if people wish to pay attention to them, they could." Yes, that is the point of protesting, to get people who want to hear your message to hear it, right? I mean, the gays were always protesting to have people who support them hear them, right? It had nothing to do with trying to have the majority hear the voices of an oppressed minority... that oppressed minority should just be caged in some "controlled ring" where people who like them can go and listen to their "controlled" free speech and watch them like animals in a zoo... and if the gays get out of line, "they're criminals, and shall be treated as such with the necessary force to disable."

    Yup, THAT'S how protesting works. But then, as you said, all those gays who fought for gay rights were clearly just "assholes," because that's what all people who protest are.

    If only there were more people like YOU in this world, and less people like Harvey Milk, Mahatma Gandhi, Martin Luther King, et. al. What a bunch of assholes... protesting for freedom... oh the criminality!

    Seriously, do you even hear yourself?
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    Jun 26, 2011 4:52 AM GMT
    If you want something to enrage you, you need to read the original "apology" of one of the looters: http://therealcamille.wordpress.com/

    She later recanted and edited much of her "apology", at least the part where she tried to rationalize her behaviour: http://camillecacnioapology.wordpress.com/

    The riot was the biggest waste of energy and the most disgusting thing I've ever seen. Totally and utterly pointless. It was over a sports match and it wasn't going to exactly change the result, now was it. Riots in Egypt, Tunisia, even the Bastille mob of 1789 - those all had historical significance and changed the course of a country's destiny. This riot? It was over nothing, was an utter embarrassment, and waste of valuable resources. The only good thing about it was the way the community came together the following days. The only thing it changes is the impact of social media on our legal system - that has been a fascinating experiment and will continue to unfold as these cases go before the courts.
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    Jun 26, 2011 4:55 AM GMT
    canuckguy19 said

    I'm curious why the state they will "do anything" to be forgiven. It's easy, go to jail for what you have admitted to.


    He should be crying, what he has worked his whole life for has been taken away by his own stupidity. It takes some serious intent to stuff rag in a gas tank and light it on fire. Its too bad he isnt 18.



    My friends and I have been following these stories for obvious reasons; we are part of a legal aid program offering free advice and representation to those who cannot afford it. We've already put together a 'squad' to deal with the rioters; we've received calls from about 20 so far.

    Many people in the public have called for very harsh treatment including jail time, revocation of scholarships and even acceptances to universities, and some have even, alarmingly, called for instances of mob justice. What the lay public has to understand is our criminal justice system exists for a reason; it is there to protect the interests of the public and ensure fair and equal treatment for all before the law. Many have said that our justice system will give the rioters a slap on the wrist and will ultimately fail to punish those who committed such acts. What we need to remember is that punishment is only one goal of the justice system, the other two are deterrence and the other, more importantly, is rehabilitation.

    Studies have shown time after time that prisons are breeding grounds for criminals - those who are sent to jail have a significantly higher recidivism rate than those who receive alternative measures (recidivism rate = rate of reoffending).

    While many of the people charged for the events that took place that night will have previous criminal records and are thus less likely to receive alternative measures, most will be first time offenders, under the age of 18; it is these people that we must target and ensure that they understand the wrongness of their actions and prevent them from reoffending. Individuals like Nathan Kotylak, are prime candidates for alternative measures; he's under 18, first time offender, has done well in school, and has a promising future - putting him through alternative measures, including probation and lengthy community service, while avoiding a criminal record, will do much more to prevent him from reoffending as an individual than sending him to jail, where his future prospects will disappear and he will be much more likely, statistically speaking, to reoffend and further harm the community.

    I understand that emotions are running high in regards to the events that took place, but people must remember that punishment in its purest form, should only be used as a last resort; it is always in the interest of both the individual AND society to rehabilitate individuals and prevent them from reoffending.

    My two cents.
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    Jun 26, 2011 4:58 AM GMT
    NoSuchPerson said, "The only thing it changes is the impact of social media on our legal system - that has been a fascinating experiment and will continue to unfold as these cases go before the courts."

    I thought about this, too. These young people are the same ones that love, it seems, the ability to act out in text on the internet, but forget this same internet has a way of immortalizing past behaviour.
    At 19, his record is wiped and he's given a second chance. However, the internet history available to everyone via youtube etc is a little more unforgiving.

    -Doug
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    Jun 26, 2011 4:59 AM GMT
    meninlove said NoSuchPerson said, "The only thing it changes is the impact of social media on our legal system - that has been a fascinating experiment and will continue to unfold as these cases go before the courts."

    I thought about this, too. These young people are the same ones that love, it seems, the ability to act out in text on the internet, but forget this same internet has a way of immortalizing past behaviour.
    At 19, his record is wiped and he's given a second chance. However, the internet history available to everyone via youtube etc is a little more unforgiving.

    -Doug



    Another common misconception - your child criminal record is sealed, not wiped out. It is still accessible to authorities and can have an impact on sentencing for future crimes.
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    Jun 26, 2011 5:01 AM GMT
    Thanks for posting this very well written and eloquent letter from a police officer who responded to the riot. It's been a week and a half since the event, and I'm finally beginning to feel calmer and less angry about what happened. As a Vancouverite, it was hard to take...

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    Jun 26, 2011 5:02 AM GMT
    I think there should be punishments for those offenders in the riot, but frankly, most of them are first time and young offenders and sending them to prison isn't the best use of our justice system or our tax dollars. And with many of them coming from families of privilege, fines aren't going to have any impact at all.

    Sooo...that leaves community service. Vancouver has enough social problems that we could use a fresh batch of rambunctious youngsters who have idle hands and lots of free time. I'm sure a few hundred hours of community service in the Downtown Eastside will get a lot of them thinking deep and hard about their actions and the choices they make in life.

    But the courts can't be lenient in these cases or else they might find an angry mob banging on their windows.
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    Jun 26, 2011 5:02 AM GMT
    ubcboy said
    meninlove said NoSuchPerson said, "The only thing it changes is the impact of social media on our legal system - that has been a fascinating experiment and will continue to unfold as these cases go before the courts."

    I thought about this, too. These young people are the same ones that love, it seems, the ability to act out in text on the internet, but forget this same internet has a way of immortalizing past behaviour.
    At 19, his record is wiped and he's given a second chance. However, the internet history available to everyone via youtube etc is a little more unforgiving.

    -Doug



    Another common misconception - your child criminal record is sealed, not wiped out. It is still accessible to authorities and can have an impact on sentencing for future crimes.


    ...Thanks ubcboy. Even so, that's better than what the internet will do to him.

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    Jun 26, 2011 5:04 AM GMT
    I still can't believe that this was what the world saw, my country, my city, my HOME on that fateful night.
    I do not forgive anyone who participated or encouraged any of the chaos that ensued that night. They don't deserve an easy way out. They should be paying for the damages they caused.
    I have never felt so disgusted or embarrassed in my life.
    OVER A FUCKING GAME!!!! Ridiculous.
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    Jun 26, 2011 5:58 AM GMT
    thecanadianone saidI still can't believe that this was what the world saw, my country, my city, my HOME on that fateful night.
    I do not forgive anyone who participated or encouraged any of the chaos that ensued that night. They don't deserve an easy way out. They should be paying for the damages they caused.
    I have never felt so disgusted or embarrassed in my life.
    OVER A FUCKING GAME!!!! Ridiculous.


    Unfortunately, the perception is the riot occurred because of the loss in a hockey game. That's the sexy headline in newspapers around the world or taglines under video images on news programs on tv. Embarrassing, yes! I felt all that as well as anger and disgust. However, I think I feel disappointment more than anything else.

    I am disappointed in human beings and how they can act in misguided ways because the opportunity is there to do so. There is something to this idea of "mob mentality". I'm sure many who participated in this riot weren't actually thinking about the hockey game anymore as they smashed, torched and looted their way through downtown Vancouver. Many did not think at all. When the 17 year old water polo player was asked why he did it (throw a burning piece of paper in the police car and stuff a burning rag into the the gas tank) he had no answer. He didn't know why, and I actually believe him. He's young and he acted stupidly. He was caught up in the moment, no doubt egged on and prompted by others in the crowd. Do I excuse him for it? No way! Do I think he deserves all that has happened to him since? Absolutely! But you know what? This event happened in '94, it happened now, and it unfortunately will happen again. It's part of human nature, and for this I am sad and disappointed.

    I was talking to a friend about this and cited another example where this one guy was trying to stop people from damaging and eventually torching the first car. I asked why is it that more people didn't jump in and try to stop it? If more people decided to align with this guy and create a "positive" mob mentality where they stood up and said NO, shaming the perpetrators perhaps it could have defused the beginnings of the riot. But my friend said nope, it wouldn't happen. People just don't get involved that way. It's easier to just stand by and do nothing or join in the destruction than it is to try and stop it. Is this really true? Apparently it is, because no one helped to stop it, and those that did try to stop it were beaten to a pulp. I really don't understand it...
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    Jun 26, 2011 6:31 AM GMT
    Greenhopper saidhttp://riot2011frontlines.tumblr.com/post/6860088383/please-stop-apologizing-a-police-officers-letter-to


    Amen to that! I, for one, don't buy the tearful apologies either. Quite honestly, most of those rioters wouldn't feel sorry at all had they not been caught.