"Honesty" "Integrity" "Commitment" Why are these words NOT found in the gay dictionary?

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    Jun 27, 2011 4:27 AM GMT
    Hello and thanks to all of you who read/post on this topic!

    This was a question that a friend asked me and was the topic of lengthy discussion at dinner last night. I feel (with very few exceptions) that the gay community has things a bit twisted as of late. Relationships that only last a few weeks, gay marriage being more about tax and legal benefits and less about solidifying your love for one another, and dates being about getting into each others pants, not each others minds were a few key points.

    I felt this topic a valid point of debate and would like to know what y'all think. This is NOT intended to reflect poorly upon the difference in people's lifestyles. It is my intention instead to better understand these differences.

    Thanks for reading!
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    Jun 27, 2011 4:32 AM GMT
    WIP302 saidHello and thanks to all of you who read/post on this topic!

    This was a question that a friend asked me and was the topic of lengthy discussion at dinner last night. I feel (with very few exceptions) that the gay community has things a bit twisted as of late. Relationships that only last a few weeks, gay marriage being more about tax and legal benefits and less about solidifying your love for one another, and dates being about getting into each others pants, not each others minds were a few key points.

    I felt this topic a valid point of debate and would like to know what y'all think. This is NOT intended to reflect poorly upon the difference in people's lifestyles. It is my intention instead to better understand these differences.

    Thanks for reading!


    You're saying the same things I heard in 1975. Even gay marriage, which was for us then a mere fantasy.
    It's not true, you know. There are a vast number of gay men that are different from what you describe but most don't post or seldom or are not even on this site being too busy in fleshland (visceral life as opposed to online).

    icon_wink.gif




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    Jun 27, 2011 4:56 AM GMT

    I don't find any of the three words more common in gays as you would find in the rest of society. I feel that there are an increasing number of people who don't have a clue as to the meaning of these words...gay, straight or in between.
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    Jun 27, 2011 5:22 AM GMT
    I'll bite
    I'm intrigued by the marriage comment: "taxes and benefits."
    So true for me and mine, Because the piece of paper wasn't and still isn't offered; a simple exchange of rings was the best I could do; that and work my ass off for over 10 years, making it work.
    And on the "Honesty/Integrity" thing...I would have to defer to my two straight bro's; married with kids, who want me to have their back when they're out getting busy with their next baby momma.
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    Jun 27, 2011 5:38 AM GMT
    You guys are most definitely right. Society in general has lost the meaning of these words. I feel as if it is more prevalent in the gay community though. This may be just a perception developed by my own encounters. Most of my straight friends are monogamous and in long term relationships where as my gay friends are a bit more promiscuous.
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    Jun 27, 2011 5:40 AM GMT
    There's a gay dictionary?
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    Jun 27, 2011 5:51 AM GMT
    yourname2000 saidRJ is my "gay dictionary"

    http://www.realjock.com/contentsearch?searchtext=integrity

    Looks like there's at least 5 pages of profiles of awesome guys who disagree with your premise.
    And I count myself as one of them.


    Perhaps I should add myself to that list as well! I'm glad that you're listed among the few. 5 pages isn't too shabby though. Any of em in Miami? Maybe it's all about location in my case...
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    Jun 27, 2011 8:12 AM GMT
    The gay dictionary?
    Shouldn't that be called The Gay Dicktionary?icon_cool.gif
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    Jun 27, 2011 10:35 AM GMT
    I know a lot of straight women who say the same thing about the men they date. I'm not willing to think it's just a "guy thing" but something about how we have relationships in general.

    I've had this conversation a lot and people look at me like I'm crazy. My reasoning is that I don't have to be in a relationship to have sex, and as far as that goes I'm not that interested in having sex if there is no potential for something more. My turn on is having someone to spend time with, be my friend and share a life.

    I'd like to think that is the norm for most humans, we want to have a lasting relationship. Sex is great and should be apart of a relationship, but so many of us are absolutely terrible at anything beyond that. (I'm good at both in case you were wondering ;)). I've had to tell some people that sex is fine, but I'm pretty good boyfriend material and I'm not willing to settle for an empty relationship where we occasionally meet up to compare clothing and have sex.




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    Jun 27, 2011 11:11 AM GMT
    I have been with the same man for over 20 years. I think our relationship is based on those three words and more. However, I think a gay man can be single and practicing an active sex life and still have a clear understanding of those words and practice them. He may be committed to something other than a LTR.
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    Jun 27, 2011 11:31 AM GMT

    I think marriage will change everything. it will give us romantics a choice. Up until now we've had to bang without caring because it was chic, but now we can get serious with a guy and know it could actually go somewhere recognized by the courts. that is going to change a lot of minds. Gay guys are very covetous, vain, and child like. Do you think your friend over there is going to be happy banging strangers when he sees that you got a ring and undeniable confirmation that someone in this world gives a damn about you? He's going to want that too, which I think is a step above what every gay wants now.

    .....................................................
  • CAtoFL

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    Jun 27, 2011 12:48 PM GMT
    I hope I_C is right and that legalization of gay marriage promotes LTRs among the gay community. I really fear, though, that it will have the opposite effect of exposing us as an incredibly superficial community incapable of making commitments.

    I've been 'out' almost four decades and, in that time, have seen almost no gay relationships that I'd want to emulate or consider a success. Nearly all of the couples still together after a while become nothing more than familiar roommates. I asked one couple I knew who were celebrating their tenth anniversary, how they beat the odds. I asked "after ten years, do you still have sex?". The response was "sure we do. Just not with each other". That seems the norm, not the exception.

    I'm sure someone will point out that hetero marriages fail too. Yes, they do. But I think our failure rate will be ten times what theirs is. And, frankly, I'm really sick of hearing "heteros fail too" as justification for our community's failures.

    It's not that we are somehow morally inferior. Heteros DO have it easier. They have tremendous social pressure from their families, their church, their friends, etc. to 'make it work'. They have the commonality of creating and providing for kids, for building a family structure, for creating a nurturing home life. Most of us don't have all of that. Some of us aren't even out to family and friends. Adoption for gay people is still a difficult option. We don't share the everyday experiences of becoming/raising a family, and lacking those experiences deprives us of a lot of what keeps heteros together. We simply lack the social pressures to help keep us committed. They have a template for their lives. We don't yet, although we're evolving.

    And let's be honest - guys are superficial. If we weren't, we'd all be on eharmony right now instead of RJ. There will always be someone younger, cuter, hotter coming down the line. All the sex sites exist because we really don't care who the hell the other person is. We think they have a hot [insert bodypart here] and want to 'do them'. If you were in a gay setting and someone said 'hey, that guy over there won the Pulitzer", would you really consider going with him instead of the guy with the six-pack? Most gay guys wouldn't.

    I think we're at an interesting point in gay history. Although we've won the right to marry in some states, I'm not sure the gay community has matured to the point where we're ready for it. I sure hope I'm wrong because it has the potential to make us all look really ridiculous if only a very, very small percentage of our marriages last.

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    Jun 27, 2011 12:49 PM GMT
    I have 2 of those words in my profile. Okay, well the one I just added after reading this because I thought I already had it and wanted to doublecheck, and it wasn't there, but it's in every profile for every other site, so I added it. But anyway!

    I agree they're not important to gays. If they were important, more people would be honest and fewer would sell out. It takes a lifelong effort with self-checks to maintain these things, and people are rewarded most of the time for compromising them. Caring about the principle of the matter despite lack of rewards is a good rule of thumb.

    But on the subject of marriage.. I believe marriage is a bad move for everyone. I think it should be retired. That's not to say commitment and monogam--ity(?) are false. They're great. Marriage doesn't ensure the relationship will last in any way.

    I see lots of people getting married, and almost all for stupid reasons:
    it'll mean he won't leave me
    it'll mean he really loves me
    i'll have a wedding and everyone will be jealous
    i'll have a wedding and everyone will be in awe of me
    it'll make something of my life
    they won't be bugging me to get married anymore
    it will make us a legitimate couple
    he really wants to and I can't say no
    can't deal with social scorn of having babies without marriage license
    i will have gotten to the finish line
    my family will not be shamed (hello asia)
    it'll make me happy

    Love isn't a reason to get married, it is a reason to stay together. Frankly, the only legitimate reasons to get married are the insurance benefits, getting around red tape, or a green card.
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    Jun 27, 2011 12:58 PM GMT
    With the divorce rate around 50% And almost 60% of men admitting to having had an affair or being unfaithful (and 54% of women)..... I dont see that there is a ton of honesty, commitment, and integrity in PEOPLE in general.

    We always find it so easy to point to the gay world as having so many problems..... the grass is always greener on the other side.
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    Jun 27, 2011 1:30 PM GMT
    With a few exeptions, none of my straight friends wants to marry the girl they fucked yesterday and they couldn't care less about love
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    Jun 27, 2011 1:33 PM GMT
    Water always run downhill.

    by and large people are dogs
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    Jun 27, 2011 1:40 PM GMT
    I don't think those words are common enough in the straight world either. That being said, I do believe that gay men have more challenges in terms of establishing LTR. Most men are highly sexed, and there is nothing wrong with that. But it does make it more challenging to establish a loving and committed relationship.

    When I was single the majority of men I met. wanted to have sex almost right away, and then would think about having a relationship. Unfortunately, with the kind of personality I have, sex early on is the kiss of death for a potential relationship. Not surprisingly my life partner and I knew each other 15 months before we started dating. That is one of the biggest reasons why is has lasted.

    As for the merits of marriage for gay men, I personally believe they have been oversold. It is great that same-sex couples have the same choices as opposite-sex couples. However, a ceremony, saying a few words, and signing a legal contract will not mean much if your relationship is not already on a firm footing. The divorce rate among hetero couples is evidence of that.
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    Jun 27, 2011 1:44 PM GMT
    surreallife saidI don't think those words are common enough in the straight world either. That being said, I do believe that gay men have more challenges in terms of establishing LTR. Most men are highly sexed, and there is nothing wrong with that. But it does make it more challenging to establish a loving and committed relationship.

    When I was single the majority of men I met. wanted to have sex almost right away, and then would think about having a relationship. Unfortunately, with the kind of personality I have, sex early on is the kiss of death for a potential relationship. Not surprisingly my life partner and I knew each other 15 months before we started dating. That is one of the biggest reasons why is has lasted.

    As for the merits of marriage for gay men, I personally believe they have been oversold. It is great that same-sex couples have the same choices as opposite-sex couples. However, a ceremony, saying a few words, and signing a legal contract will not mean much if your relationship is not already on a firm footing. The divorce rate among hetero couples is evidence of that.


    Agreed. Characteristics are found in a person.
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    Jun 27, 2011 1:45 PM GMT
    CAtoFL said

    It's not that we are somehow morally inferior. Heteros DO have it easier. They have tremendous social pressure from their families, their church, their friends, etc. to 'make it work'. They have the commonality of creating and providing for kids, for building a family structure, for creating a nurturing home life. Most of us don't have all of that. Some of us aren't even out to family and friends. Adoption for gay people is still a difficult option. We don't share the everyday experiences of becoming/raising a family, and lacking those experiences deprives us of a lot of what keeps heteros together. We simply lack the social pressures to help keep us committed. They have a template for their lives. We don't yet, although we're evolving.


    We have it easier; all we have to do is a love a man, have tons of big dick sex with him, live in a big house free of rough housing and bad decisions and scribble on the walls.. We don't have to buy diapers or pay college tuition. We don't have the pressure to get married because it's holy to do and it sustains the planet's human population. All we have to do is love another man more than we love being a whore bag and multitudes of gay men have been doing this before these incredible strides. Well, halfa multitudes. I think gays as a whole just need a push. How many bed bugs (I call them bed bugs) are really happy?
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    Jun 27, 2011 1:48 PM GMT
    surreallife saidI don't think those words are common enough in the straight world either. That being said, I do believe that gay men have more challenges in terms of establishing LTR. Most men are highly sexed, and there is nothing wrong with that. But it does make it more challenging to establish a loving and committed relationship.

    When I was single the majority of men I met. wanted to have sex almost right away, and then would think about having a relationship. Unfortunately, with the kind of personality I have, sex early on is the kiss of death for a potential relationship. Not surprisingly my life partner and I knew each other 15 months before we started dating. That is one of the biggest reasons why is has lasted.

    As for the merits of marriage for gay men, I personally believe they have been oversold. It is great that same-sex couples have the same choices as opposite-sex couples. However, a ceremony, saying a few words, and signing a legal contract will not mean much if your relationship is not already on a firm footing. The divorce rate among hetero couples is evidence of that.


    That is a huge misconception, you will also find as many LTRs that started by having sex on a first date. The reason why you and your partner have lasted this long is not because of abstinence but because it seems like you guys share a common interest in which sex didn't seem like a big deal to neither of u.
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    Jun 27, 2011 1:51 PM GMT
    You sure have gotten things wrong!!! People who have no idea of the pain and agony they bring to the world by their ignorance, driven by their fear, are clueless of what they do. When confronted, Are you expecting a rational explaintion? As they will see, one day, the errors of their past ways. This is called "Human Evolution".

    As far as the individual human struggle to find love on this planet -- Gay or Straight- there will always be diverse approaches by each and everyone of us. I suspect, so will the criticism. That's the beauty of it!!!

    Don't you just love being a human being?

    Michael LaPoint
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    Jun 27, 2011 1:52 PM GMT
    Because many gay guys are self-centered, selfish, and have exceedingly low self-esteem. That's a very tragic combination.
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    Jun 27, 2011 1:54 PM GMT
    DOMINUS saidBecause many gay guys are self-centered, selfish, and have exceedingly low self-esteem. That's a very tragic combination.


    so, what you are saying is gay people act like straight people, making them, well, just people.
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    Jun 27, 2011 1:56 PM GMT
    Dallasfan824 said
    DOMINUS saidBecause many gay guys are self-centered, selfish, and have exceedingly low self-esteem. That's a very tragic combination.


    so, what you are saying is gay people act like straight people, making them, well, just people.


    QFT.
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    Jun 27, 2011 1:57 PM GMT
    intentsman saidThere's a gay dictionary?


    You mean you weren't issued one when you came out of the closet? Talk with Human Resources; I'm sure they'll still give you a copy.