Religion & Homosexuality, an interesting commentary

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    Apr 20, 2008 4:02 PM GMT
    Came across this in a Myspace bulletin...by far not a very religious person myself, but found this 'letter' to be an interesting read...thought I'd pass it along for others to look at and comment on...its LONG, but worth it.

    Its titled "A Letter to Louise"

    http://godmademegay.com/letter.htm
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    Apr 20, 2008 9:20 PM GMT
    Sounds like a start.

    The finish would be everyone willingly giving up the wishful thinking called religion icon_wink.gif
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    Apr 20, 2008 9:57 PM GMT
    Because so many people delude themselves with the notion of God, I am being put in harms way, daily. Muslims think suicide bombs will make their God happy, Catholic priests get permission from their Pope to molest kids, Mormons and JW's think it is an abomination when their children are gay, so they disown them. All because we're control freaks and we must attempt to explain the unknown--as if that's even possible. It is not possible, and belief in any science fiction/religion forces people to accept illogical notions and use them as an excuse to justify the worst kinds of behavior.

    Whatever it was that made the Earth its base, the world its life, the wind its pillar, arranged the lotus and the moon, and covered all with folds of sky with itself inside, to that mystery, indifferent to differences, to IT I pray.
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    Apr 21, 2008 12:39 AM GMT
    ive had this marked as a favorite of mine for a long time. I think its very informative and I wish more people had the open minds to read it and accept a different point of view.
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    Apr 21, 2008 1:05 AM GMT
    Yeah, actually Tofustud, not all Christians are like you describe. Ideally, a belief God helps people to bring out the best of themselves.


    It's like saying you don't like lesbians because they're butch or gay guys because they're flamboyant.

    We're all individuals and deserve to be treated and respected as such, despite personal beliefs.

    Isn't that what winning civil rights for the American homosexual all about? Let's not start back tracking just yet...icon_neutral.gif
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    Apr 21, 2008 1:11 AM GMT
    Gay's already have rights.

    What's needed to is lead the tainted down the road to accepting that fact in both the courtroom and outside life. The tainted unfortunately include mostly the religious right. The taint is the false security system they put stock in to ward off fear of the dark.
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    Aug 21, 2008 7:07 AM GMT
    I worked in AIDs hospice in the 90s and many of those who passed were disowned JW's and LDS ( Mormons ). I didn't look gay per the nursing staff more like a jock that cared so to speak but until they saw me "being there" for those who I grew to love....they with held their judgement. Many times it was hard to watch as the Mormon bishop came in lieu of family because the family was just "too shame" to be there at the passing. I have recieved many a card from a JW's family to give to the dying as he took his last breath. Fact of the matter is like any zealot group I don't care of the doctrine nor the gospel view if it takes you away from your love for another child of god, its not worth believing. Dare to care, be there or don't bother! former Returned missionary from the LDS San Diego Mission Spanish Speaking 1979-1981 NOW excommunicated because "I" went in for it. member of the Human race.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Aug 21, 2008 10:00 AM GMT
    If you wanna believe that? Mazel Tov
    But God didn't make me gay

    and he didn't make the Giants win or lose their last game
    and he didn't give the girl down the street the luelemia she now has
    and he didn't get you through calculus in college

    He didn't do anything...

    but you wamma believe in a big white haired man in the sky pullin the strings down here?
    Go right ahead
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    Aug 21, 2008 12:26 PM GMT
    Trance23 saidThe taint is the false security system they put stock in to ward off fear of the dark.


    I thought the taint was the space between your balls and your asshole. Taint your dick and taint your ass. *shrug*
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    Aug 22, 2008 1:30 AM GMT
    From the Sundance Film Festival ... 2007

    For the Bible Tells Me SoWatch the Film. Open the Book. web metrics.
    www.forthebibletellsmeso.org/
  • B71115

    Posts: 482

    Aug 22, 2008 2:55 AM GMT
    OrlFLMuscle saidCame across this in a Myspace bulletin...by far not a very religious person myself, but found this 'letter' to be an interesting read...thought I'd pass it along for others to look at and comment on...its LONG, but worth it.

    Its titled "A Letter to Louise"

    http://godmademegay.com/letter.htm


    thanks a bunch. i had to bookmark that, too. the appendices were abuot the best part.
  • Delivis

    Posts: 2332

    Aug 22, 2008 3:04 AM GMT
    Many people believe that homosexuality is a creation of the devil, or something god hates, etc. They believe this without a shred of evidence. Going and saying God made me gay or something is just as credulous and completely misses the problem.
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    Aug 22, 2008 3:20 AM GMT
    Delivis saidMany people believe that homosexuality is a creation of the devil, or something god hates, etc. They believe this without a shred of evidence. Going and saying God made me gay or something is just as credulous and completely misses the problem.

    I'd replace the word "credulous" with "specious."
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    Aug 22, 2008 3:46 AM GMT
    I like how it started on religion and quickly turned to male anatomy! YES!icon_lol.gif

    I spent many years trying to change to a more acceptable straight version that would be accepted by my parents and their religion. It is not worth the pain and I wish to spare that time and pain to all future kids I plan on working with in Child Psychiatry.

    Today I am spiritual but not religious, there is a big difference. Only man creates "boys clubs" and exclusive beliefs then try to impose them on others. So I defer to Cho and her commentary on the pope...."Bitch you live like Versace did!"icon_rolleyes.gif

    If anyone can post that clip it applies here....
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    Aug 22, 2008 8:58 AM GMT
    Why are you hugging a yellow klanner?! icon_eek.gif
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    Aug 31, 2009 5:17 AM GMT
    RyanRebornG0y saidYeah, actually Tofustud, not all Christians are like you describe. Ideally, a belief God helps people to bring out the best of themselves.


    It's like saying you don't like lesbians because they're butch or gay guys because they're flamboyant.

    We're all individuals and deserve to be treated and respected as such, despite personal beliefs.

    Isn't that what winning civil rights for the American homosexual all about? Let's not start back tracking just yet...icon_neutral.gif


    One thruline, however, is that all of these organizations who put us in harm's way each day, are doing so tax exempt in the US. That is rather galling, isn't it? They don't have to pay taxes. Why?
  • JP85257

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    Aug 31, 2009 11:54 PM GMT
    All I am saying is that BOTH of my brothers are Pentecostal Assemblies of God ministers.

    Its cool. They accept me and treat me kindly contrary to what nasty shit people say about Christians.
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    Sep 01, 2009 12:35 AM GMT
    Well I am a catholic, an I can say that even tho I am out there are a few that know in my church. I am completly excepted and feel that I can just be me. As the catholic fatih teaches god does not effect free will. I chose do do what I do an am not on a pre-determined path. God knows whats best for me and knows how to protect me from what is true evil and what is man made evil.
  • styrgan

    Posts: 2017

    Sep 01, 2009 12:46 AM GMT
    mickeytopogigio said
    Delivis saidMany people believe that homosexuality is a creation of the devil, or something god hates, etc. They believe this without a shred of evidence. Going and saying God made me gay or something is just as credulous and completely misses the problem.

    I'd replace the word "credulous" with "specious."


    I like Del's post because he just provided an antonym for specious.

    I like the word specious... so leave him alone.
  • JP85257

    Posts: 3284

    Sep 01, 2009 2:55 AM GMT
    A writing by a friend of mine that made me think.:


    Of Homosexuals and Christian Sign Holders.Share
    Wednesday, July 29, 2009 at 12:28pm

    This past Sunday was the gay pride parade and festival in my hometown of Colorado Springs, Co. A lot of Christians bring large signs to this event every year. This year I decided to bring a sign of my own.

    Colorado Springs is widely held as one of the most Christian conservative towns in the nation. It is the home to such large Christian ministries as Focus on the Family, Young Life, and Compassion International. It was also the stage of the rather large Ted Haggard scandal that rocked so many headlines a few years back. The scandal, if you remember, involved a very successful and outspoken evangelical pastor and his involvement with a homosexual prostitute. All of this said, it is really no surprise that a gay pride parade is going to stir up a little controversy. Over the past several years, it has been expected to see at least a handful of people walking around the perimeter of the park where the event is held, holding large signs which read things like "God hates fags" and "Sodomites go to Hell". My sign said something a little different.

    I arrived early on Sunday morning, just as the festivities were getting started. There were several drag queens in full get-up. A lot of both men and women very scantily dressed. There were gays and lesbians of all ages, colors and social standings displaying absolutely no fear of public affection. And then there was me, in a nice shirt and slacks, holding my sign and smiling silently. A lot of people at first simply took me as a protester. One person flipped me off and uttered a few choice words at me. It was then that his friend hit him on the shoulder and said, "read the sign, idiot". His jaw dropped as he read it, tears filled his eyes and a large smile filled his face. He came up to me and gave me a hug. "Thank you", he said. My sign, in simple black letters, said "I am sorry for the way Christians have treated you". My day had just begun.

    I walked around the park for a couple of hours, showing everyone I could my sign. The response was overwhelming. Many people came up to hug me or shake my hand. More than a few people cried. Three pastor's kids approached me, one of which had been completely disowned by his family, they all said that this was a great thing. That they accepted my apology. I thought about the old adage that says to love the sinner but hate the sin. I wondered if, from these people's perspectives, if they could tell the difference from what was being hated.

    After a few minutes someone stopped me and asked, "why are you doing this?" I told them that having read the Bible, I realized that for every verse of scripture that we can find to condemn homosexuality there are at least two more explicitly commanding people of faith to love people, especially those that we consider "sinners" and "lost". I said that Christians cannot justify acting immorally just because we perceive immorality in others. Whether or not homosexuality is wrong is irrelevant, what I am addressing is the fact that Christians are commanded to love and we have failed at that, not just towards the gay, lesbian and transgender community but towards a lot of minorities in this country. She smiled, said "God bless you" and shook my hand.

    The one thing that I found most surprising from the reactions I received was the way the gay community came to the defense of Christianity. "Your sign should say some Christians", one person said, "the majority of Christians are really great, loving people. It's just a few of them that are really hateful". I smiled and said, "You're right, but the problem is that those few loud people presume to speak for all of Christianity, which is why I presume to speak for all Christianity when I apologize for them."

    The Christian Protesters showed up around half past noon (I figured they had to go to church first), with all of their signs and bibles in tow. Being a bit of an antagonist, I somehow found myself standing next to them with my sign. I smiled. They scowled. We said nothing for some time. After about forty-five minutes, I approached one of the sign holders. "Can I ask you a question?" He smiled a certain braced, defensive smile and said "Absolutely. What's on your mind?" I said, "I was just wondering if you guys have big signs condemning greed that you hold outside all of the banks?"
    "No, no we don't."
    "What about big signs saying that rebellion will send you to hell that you hold outside all of the highschools?"
    He laughed, "No, we don't have those either."
    "But sin is sin, right? God doesn't discriminate? All sins are equal?"
    "Of course, sin is sin. God hates all of it."
    "Doesn't it seem like you are kind of picking this one particular sin out? That maybe these signs represent hate and bigotry, instead of just the gospel?"
    "No, listen," he said, "all we are doing here is just trying to provide an alternative lifestyle to the ones that these people are living. We are not saying that they are any worse than anyone else. Look at me, I was an adulterer. I cheated on my wife for several years, and I can tell you that I was going to the exact same Hell. I needed to wake up, I needed to turn to Jesus."
    "And can I ask what turned you around? Was it a big sign that someone was holding?"
    He laughed and said no.
    "Was it something a little more relational then?"
    He smiled and said that, actually, a friend of his invited him to church.
    "That's very interesting", I said. I looked at his sign, it said "Turn to Jesus" in big red letters. "Can I ask you about Jesus?", I asked.
    "Absolutely!"
    "Jesus hung around with a lot of sinners. He even had dinner with prostitutes and tax-collectors, didn't he?"
    "He did. Jesus was a friend of the sinner."
    "Do you think he'd be here at the parade today?"
    "I do. I really do."
    "Do you think he'd be holding a sign?"
    The man said nothing. I went on.
    "One of my favorite stories is the one about Jesus and the woman at the well. Do you think that woman would have talked to Jesus if he was holding a sign?"
    The man still said nothing.
    "Sir, the only thing we really disagree on right now is approach. The apostle Paul said that he was all things to all people. He didn't change his message at all, but adapted the way that he presented it to the culture he was addressing so that they could understand it and receive it better. And I'm sure that once you make up a sign that condemns pride and vanity and hold it up outside of the beauty parlor, people might take you at face value, but until then, the gay community will really only see these signs as symbols of hate and prejudice and not the love of Jesus."
    The man smiled and said "It was really good talking to you."
    I smiled and said, "It was great talking to you. Sir, I know that we've already established that sin is sin and God does not discriminate. However, I don't think that's completely true. I think God might hold Christians to a higher standard. I think he might view the way Christians have treated non-believers as the biggest sin to happen here today."
    "You know, I could not agree more."
    I walked away, still holding my sign.
    As I walked away, I looked back and noticed that there was one less sign up than there was before.
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    Sep 01, 2009 2:11 PM GMT

    Thanks for your post and what you did, JP85257! Yesterday I stood at a bus stop with a jehovah's witness and we chatted about everything but religion. Then he brought it up and wanted to know if I'd read the watchtower.

    I said I had but that it was not for me, being gay ( big smile) and having recently gotten married to my guy (smile became happy grin). His face fell, then he told me god was very forgiving. I touched him briefly on the shoulder as I turned for my bus.

    "Yes god is." I said and gave him eye contact that I could tell he understood; my reply was about forgiving him.



    -Doug of meninlove
  • JP85257

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    Sep 01, 2009 3:22 PM GMT
    meninlove said
    Thanks for your post and what you did, JP85257! Yesterday I stood at a bus stop with a jehovah's witness and we chatted about everything but religion. Then he brought it up and wanted to know if I'd read the watchtower.

    I said I had but that it was not for me, being gay ( big smile) and having recently gotten married to my guy (smile became happy grin). His face fell, then he told me god was very forgiving. I touched him briefly on the shoulder as I turned for my bus.

    "Yes god is." I said and gave him eye contact that I could tell he understood; my reply was about forgiving him.



    -Doug of meninlove


    It was written by a Pastor's son that I used to go to church with when I was young. He had some very harsh viewpoints back then, but those could all be attributed to daddy. Once he got out on his own and saw that we arent all bad people he changed the way he thought. He is a really good guy and I resepct him greatly. I told him that if more Christians approached people like he does then the world would be a MUCH better place.
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    Sep 01, 2009 3:24 PM GMT


    Ooops! D'oh. I should have been reading a little slower, eh? lol!

    Still, thanks for posting it - it really made my day!

    -Doug
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    Sep 01, 2009 3:29 PM GMT
    JP85257 said...lifestyle...


    I hate that word.
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    Sep 01, 2009 3:44 PM GMT
    Jesus fuck me running, I wish all of these religious threads would simply stop. They don't belong in a gay user forum.

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