Why do some gay men judge and treat each other so badly sometimes? And those same people are out in pride parades and hoping for equality.

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    Jul 11, 2011 5:18 PM GMT
    I'm sure this is true for any group of people. But I only want to discuss us a gay people. Why are we fighting so hard for acceptance in the word, yet we don't really accept our self. I'm guilty of this and over this past weekend it hit me.

    Why is it like this? It's understood there is no perfect segment or group of people.

    I think if we want everyone to respect & accept our lifestyle we have to do the same. That means all that comes with it.

    And yes there are tons of us who don't do it but those who do are usually the ones front and center.
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    Jul 11, 2011 8:49 PM GMT
    Mmmhmmm...
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    Jul 11, 2011 9:05 PM GMT
    mckinney31 saidI think if we want everyone to respect & accept our lifestyle we have to do the same. That means all that comes with it.


    Everyone isn't going to respect and accept our lifestyle. We can want it, but it's not going to happen. Perhaps on some level we realize this, and this is why we treat each other so poorly.
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    Jul 11, 2011 9:09 PM GMT
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  • Diceroll

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    Jul 11, 2011 9:10 PM GMT
    One thing to remember is that some (obviously not all) guys will go to pride with no intention of promoting equality.

    I don't go to pride parades myself, but I used to go to a gym full of pride regulars. A lot of them basically saw it as an opportunity to dance around in public with their tops off, then they would go to the after-parties and get fucked up on drugs. The whole message of pride never came into it - it was basically a day of partying.
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    Jul 11, 2011 9:16 PM GMT
    It's really sad that some of us who have this self defeating negative attitude ruin it for those of us who do believe in equality and treating each other with love and respect.
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    Jul 11, 2011 9:20 PM GMT
    I have been wondering this for 25 years, and still have not come up with a conclusive answer. There are times when I think the LGBT "community" is worse than high school! Cliques sprouting up like dandelions in June.

    - gay men vs. lesbians;
    - gay men vs. bisexuals;
    - masculine men vs. effeminate men;
    - young gay men vs. older gay men;

    etc, etc..

    Hopefully as LGBT people come out earlier and are more accepted by society, there will be more acceptance of others within the community that we deem "not one of us".
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    Jul 11, 2011 9:22 PM GMT
    surreallife saidI have been wondering this for 25 years, and still have not come up with a conclusive answer. There are times when I think the LGBT "community" is worse than high school! Cliques sprouting up like dandelions in June.

    - gay men vs. lesbians;
    - gay men vs. bisexuals;
    - masculine men vs. effeminate men;
    - young gay men vs. older gay men;

    etc, etc..

    Hopefully as LGBT people come out earlier and are more accepted by society, there will be more acceptance of others within the community that we deem "not one of us".



    Its human nature to define "us" vs. "the other"..... and its all based on fear and insecurity.

    Not saying its OK or healthy.... just an explanation.
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    Jul 11, 2011 9:26 PM GMT
    People do not always get along. There are billions of people on the planet and not everyone is going to like one another. They don't have to. Whether you are gay or straight makes no difference. You will not fall in love with everyone you meet. It does not mean you have to kill them either.

    That has NOTHING to do with whether or not people are entitled to basic civil and human rights. That means the catty bitches at the local bar. The meat head muscle boys. The dirty old men. They are all entitled to basic legal protections and rights. And they don't have to go on a picnic together to earn them.

    Gay men have just as much ability to be schmucks to one another as straight men. In that area - there is no question of equality. Until we agree to end the in-fighting, it will continue.

    In the mean time - we are ALL 110% entitled to civil and HUMAN rights. One issue is NOT contigent on another.
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    Jul 11, 2011 9:46 PM GMT
    Lots of people are selfish.
    Lots of people are simply not "good."
    Within the context of a social minority, where the pool of potentials is smaller, the presence of the "bad" is simply going to be more acute. It's a numbers game. Proportionately, there's likely the same number of gay or straight asshats. We are just more aware of the gay ones because their are fewer of "us."
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    Jul 11, 2011 10:03 PM GMT
    MuchMoreThanMuscle saidIt has nothing to do with contingency.


    We're merely pointing out the contradiction and hypocrisy of it all.


    I may very likely have misunderstood - but I thought the title of the thread suggested a certain contigency.

    I don't deny contradiction and a certain amount of hypocrysy. I just think those are seperate issues from legal equality.

    Keep in mind, my two cents ain't worth 2 cents.

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    Jul 11, 2011 10:30 PM GMT
    My take on what the OP said was that we want to be treated as equals by wider society but don't treat each other as equals within the gay community (however you may wish to define it). Hypocrisy is very much alive and well.

    I don't believe it's a question of 'liking' somebody or not.
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    Jul 11, 2011 10:35 PM GMT
    bazungu saidMy take on what the OP said was that we want to be treated as equals by wider society but don't treat each other as equals within the gay community (however you may wish to define it). Hypocrisy is very much alive and well.

    I don't believe it's a question of 'liking' somebody or not.


    How are we not treating each other as equals? And I am NOT baiting or being sarcastic, I am genuinely asking the question. Do you mean judging based on physical appearance or financial status?

    EDIT:

    Actually I have re-read this a dozen times, and taking into account some of the other popular threads of the day (including Pride and Open Relationships), I think the point of the OP is that we sound ridiculous demanding acceptance when some of us refuse to accept segments of our own population with a belief system different than our own.

    I think.

    Got it. I think.

    I am giving up weight training and looking into heavy drinking as a hobby.
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    Jul 11, 2011 11:00 PM GMT
    Cash saidPeople do not always get along. There are billions of people on the planet and not everyone is going to like one another. They don't have to. Whether you are gay or straight makes no difference. You will not fall in love with everyone you meet. It does not mean you have to kill them either.

    That has NOTHING to do with whether or not people are entitled to basic civil and human rights. That means the catty bitches at the local bar. The meat head muscle boys. The dirty old men. They are all entitled to basic legal protections and rights. And they don't have to go on a picnic together to earn them.

    Gay men have just as much ability to be schmucks to one another as straight men. In that area - there is no question of equality. Until we agree to end the in-fighting, it will continue.

    In the mean time - we are ALL 110% entitled to civil and HUMAN rights. One issue is NOT contigent on another.



    Correct and that's why I said I'm only talking about gay people...Seems a group of people searching for the above would come together. My point totally! We will never can expect to get it if we dont give it. Don't care what the other segment does. Only talking about "us"

    The rest of your response is understood. Because we have a bunch of busy bodies out on the front line doesn't mean we halt progess or deny equality.
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    Jul 11, 2011 11:15 PM GMT
    I just can accept lesbians. Im sorry. But I cant. icon_eek.gif
  • swimmer8671

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    Jul 11, 2011 11:18 PM GMT
    I think people expect too much, that just because society has grouped us all under this umbrella term of gay that we all have to be like a family or something. We are all people, and not every single person gets along. Its like straight people don't get along all the time, and yet they have their sexuality in common. Which is what people think is the bonding factor between all gay people. Yes our sexuality is something we have in common, but if thats the only thing we are relying on to believe that everyone who is gay should get along then you are for sure wrong.

    Everyone is different and not everyone gets along.
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    Jul 12, 2011 12:09 AM GMT
    Dallasfan824 saidI just can accept lesbians. Im sorry. But I cant. icon_eek.gif


    icon_confused.gif

    I have always found lesbians easier to get along with then gay men! Overall less pretentious, more forthright and down to earth.
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    Jul 12, 2011 12:13 AM GMT
    swimmer8671 saidI think people expect too much, that just because society has grouped us all under this umbrella term of gay that we all have to be like a family or something. We are all people, and not every single person gets along. Its like straight people don't get along all the time, and yet they have their sexuality in common. Which is what people think is the bonding factor between all gay people. Yes our sexuality is something we have in common, but if thats the only thing we are relying on to believe that everyone who is gay should get along then you are for sure wrong.

    Everyone is different and not everyone gets along.


    Although I would not expect all members of the community to get along (I am a realist if nothing else), it would be kind of nice if members of the LGBT would make more of a concerted effort to treat each other with respect. After what each of us has to deal with from the broader society, is that too much to ask?
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    Jul 12, 2011 12:16 AM GMT
    Interesting topic, I personly think that respect and discipline is lacking in this world. Common courtesy is not to common. But opinions are like an asshole, everyone has them lol
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    Jul 12, 2011 12:30 AM GMT
    MuchMoreThanMuscle saidThose of you that are carrying on about the pride parade, I believe, are not addressing the point. McKinney just used the example of the pride parade but I believe the issue he is talking about is the inconsistencies with the lack of acceptance "within" the gay community.

    At least that is how I interpreted it.


    Agreed, the issue isn't parades.

    MANY....not all......gay men have a big problem with CIVILITY to other gay men whom they don't find HOT.

    Or just as annoying, the guys who freak out over a friendly 'Hello' in the gym or on the street. Too many of us can only interpret any kind gesture as a sexual invitation.

    Here's an idea for finding your humanity: Hold the door open for someone you wouldn't consider fucking. Smile just because the other guy or old lady is a fellow human being.

    Be Proud of your humanity as well as your gayness.
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    Jul 12, 2011 12:42 AM GMT
    PresentMind said
    MuchMoreThanMuscle saidThose of you that are carrying on about the pride parade, I believe, are not addressing the point. McKinney just used the example of the pride parade but I believe the issue he is talking about is the inconsistencies with the lack of acceptance "within" the gay community.

    At least that is how I interpreted it.


    Agreed, the issue isn't parades.

    MANY....not all......gay men have a big problem with CIVILITY to other gay men whom they don't find HOT.

    Or just as annoying, the guys who freak out over a friendly 'Hello' in the gym or on the street. Too many of us can only interpret any kind gesture as a sexual invitation.

    Here's an idea for finding your humanity: Hold the door open for someone you wouldn't consider fucking. Smile just because the other guy or old lady is a fellow human being.

    Be Proud of your humanity as well as your gayness.


    That was really very nicely stated!!! I don't know that I agree that "hotness" is such a determining factor - honestly I don't see that as such an issue, but a lack of civility for whatever reason IS an issue. And we all too often forget the basics of humanity.

    Nice reminder - well done!
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    Jul 12, 2011 12:44 AM GMT
    errbody insecure. errbody need a hug.
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    Jul 12, 2011 1:21 AM GMT
    The issue is that it is hard to hold ourselves accountable for how we make others feel, especially when many of us don't feel like others hold themselves accountable for how they make us feel. How we feel about ourselves is a huge driver in how we treat each other as well. It ends up being a vicious cycle, however. To care about someone or something requires sacrifice of time, effort, emotion etc and we just don't want to do that without getting something in return. When it comes to guys, that something in return is sex, love, pleasure, money....

    So if we feel that a guy is unable to fulfill us in these areas we become less and less interested in sacrificing our time, effort or emotion etc for them. This is why online sites are so appealing to many guys... because they allow us to block out body types, sexual roles and even entire races of people according to our perception of who is worthy. Fortunately, most of us grow up and evolve over time. For some it seems to take a lifetime to get there....
  • mybud

    Posts: 11819

    Jul 12, 2011 1:41 AM GMT
    You said you're guilty of these same behaviors you protest and hate in others...I got one for ya.....Stop doing you're judging and treat others badly.....Set an example...It's easy to feed into negative thoughts and actions by going along with the majority but then don't get fed up later and bitch about it in a gay forum....Rise above the bullshit....If ya believe the talk then walk the walk......BUD
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    Jul 12, 2011 3:49 AM GMT
    mckinney31 saidGood stuff guys.... I only used the pride parade as an example there are many more but thought it was worth mentioning.

    To be clear we are not perfect and we have many issues and have come along way. My point is others in society don't have a million organizations that foster and create tolerance and acceptance as gay people. Think about it?

    That being said if we are to be on this path of acceptance and being treated equally. It has to start with us and treating each other with respect.

    I will not accept "That's how it is"....... If we do that and just let it go 100 years from now we will have not moved one step.

    Another example how many of your gay couple friends have open relationships yet are fighting for Gay Marriage?

    I don't want to sound like I'm on a soap box, I want us to be all the things we fight and hope for. But it's time we check ourselves.

    Hope that clears it up!



    One has NOTHING to do with the other. I am NOT in an Open Relationship but fully support those who choose one. I also support the right for marriage for couples who believe in the institution and desire it.

    You are demonstrating the same judgemental pettiness that you claim to have a distaste for - or at least I thought you did.

    It is threads like this and people like you that have me SERIOUSLY questioning my participation and membership in this site.