The Republicans' Flirtation With Anarchy

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    Jul 15, 2011 5:09 AM GMT
    Complete column can be read at http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/14/anarchists-and-tasseled-loafers/?ref=opinion

    Anarchists and Tasseled Loafers
    By TIMOTHY EGAN

    "... Who would put at risk, at a time when most people are hurting from a gasping economy, the monthly issuance of life-supporting funds for wounded veterans, disabled children, countless elderly couples living on barely $2,000 a month — all told, over 70 million checks that go out each month?

    "Who would risk pushing the livelihoods of businesses small and big off a cliff by an interest rate spike, possibly igniting a second recession as the credit-rating agencies have just suggested — essentially saying 'blow your brains out, America,' as Warren Buffett phrased it?

    "Who would risk this anarchists’ storm, rather than a pass a formality: extending the borrowing authority of the United States so the country can pay bills from the past? Certainly, Mitch McConnell, the Republican leader in the Senate, cannot find anyone so reckless in Washington. 'Nobody is talking about not raising the debt ceiling,' he said last Sunday. 'I haven’t heard that from anybody.'

    "Either he’s deaf to the roar on his right or he’s speaking exclusively to that diminishing other wing of his party, the Tasseled Loafers. Not only is Michele Bachmann, a leading Republican presidential candidate, saying a government default is nothing to worry about, but a core group of 59 House Republicans have indicated they will not raise the debt ceiling under any circumstances, according to House Speaker John Boehner.

    "That’s right: no matter how much President Obama gives them — from curbing entitlements to cuts in excess of $3 trillion — this cadre of radical Republicans is taking the burn-it-all-down position. They don’t want to see the terms of a deal because there is no deal they will accept. That’s their stated position."
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    Jul 15, 2011 5:42 AM GMT
    I don't get it. How can you say that it's the Republicans flirting with "anarchy" when it was Obama who rejected a shorter term raise to the limit?
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    Jul 15, 2011 6:10 AM GMT
    riddler78 saidI don't get it. How can you say that it's the Republicans flirting with "anarchy" when it was Obama who rejected a shorter term raise to the limit?



    How can the Repubs say that they're serious about reducing the National Debt when they walked away from negotiating for a 4 trillion dollar debt reduction deal and settled for a 2 trillion dollar deal?
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    Jul 15, 2011 6:32 AM GMT
    rickrick91 said
    riddler78 saidI don't get it. How can you say that it's the Republicans flirting with "anarchy" when it was Obama who rejected a shorter term raise to the limit?



    How can the Repubs say that they're serious about reducing the National Debt when they walked away from negotiating for a 4 trillion dollar debt reduction deal and settled for a 2 trillion dollar deal?


    It's a question of priorities. Getting something is better than nothing and in the short term, it would be irresponsible to let the debt limit be reached.
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    Jul 15, 2011 9:13 AM GMT
    riddler78 said
    rickrick91 said
    riddler78 saidI don't get it. How can you say that it's the Republicans flirting with "anarchy" when it was Obama who rejected a shorter term raise to the limit?



    How can the Repubs say that they're serious about reducing the National Debt when they walked away from negotiating for a 4 trillion dollar debt reduction deal and settled for a 2 trillion dollar deal?


    It's a question of priorities. Getting something is better than nothing and in the short term, it would be irresponsible to let the debt limit be reached.


    No. The Republicans are playing chicken in order to tie the debt ceiling around Obama's neck, to put the debt (70% of which was created by Republicans) on his shoulders and use it as a cudgel.

    Sadly, for them, the president didn't blink. So now they're back tracking and dissembling. It seems they have, once again, underestimated Obama.
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    Jul 15, 2011 9:36 AM GMT
    Obama has refused to state where all the cuts would come from. Expect smoke and mirrors and accounting gimmicks.

    Obama has put on the untouchable list his pet rail projects and even the unspent stimulus money.

    So you think he is being reasonable and flexible?

    Interesting how some here buy everything Democratic hook, line, and sinker. Are some of you even capable of original, independent thought?
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    Jul 15, 2011 11:03 AM GMT
    Both sides are to blame for the mess the USA is in, but if the US defaults it will likely be the Republicans who take more of the heat from the voters due to the intransigence of the tea partiers on taxes.

    Even if an agreement is reached, foreign investors (e.g. China) in American debt have to be wondering whether the US politicans are capable of dealing with the country's fiscal challenges.
  • rnch

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    Jul 15, 2011 11:41 AM GMT
    surreallife saidBoth sides are to blame for the mess the USA is in, but if the US defaults it will likely be the Republicans who take more of the heat from the voters due to the intransigence of the tea partiers on taxes...



    Q F T icon_exclaim.gif
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    Jul 15, 2011 11:51 AM GMT
    surreallife saidBoth sides are to blame for the mess the USA is in, but if the US defaults it will likely be the Republicans who take more of the heat from the voters due to the intransigence of the tea partiers on taxes.

    Even if an agreement is reached, foreign investors (e.g. China) in American debt have to be wondering whether the US politicans are capable of dealing with the country's fiscal challenges.

    I don't think the Republicans will take more of the blame for the following reasons:
    1) The public already has a negative opinion of the Administration's handling of the economy. This debt issue will be seen in that context to a large degree.
    2) Whenever there is the appearance of chaos, the President ultimately takes more of the blame because he is expected to show leadership and calm the waters.
    3) Both sides have been rigid. (Democrats with their class warfare and trying to renege on tax negotiations made to keep Bush tax cuts in place. They knew full well that the debt ceiling would need to be dealt with. On the Republican's part, they should consider revenue by closing loopholes, but they must oppose tax rate increases.)
    4) Compared to the issues in the 1990s, there is a more balanced media and people will not get a spin favoring the liberals.
  • rnch

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    Jul 15, 2011 2:24 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    surreallife saidBoth sides are to blame for the mess the USA is in, but if the US defaults it will likely be the Republicans who take more of the heat from the voters due to the intransigence of the tea partiers on taxes.

    Even if an agreement is reached, foreign investors (e.g. China) in American debt have to be wondering whether the US politicans are capable of dealing with the country's fiscal challenges.

    I don't think the Republicans will take more of the blame for the following reasons:
    1) The public already has a negative opinion of the Administration's handling of the economy. This debt issue will be seen in that context to a large degree.
    2) Whenever there is the appearance of chaos, the President ultimately takes more of the blame because he is expected to show leadership and calm the waters.
    3) Both sides have been rigid. (Democrats with their class warfare and trying to renege on tax negotiations made to keep Bush tax cuts in place. They knew full well that the debt ceiling would need to be dealt with. On the Republican's part, they should consider revenue by closing loopholes, but they must oppose tax rate increases.)
    4) Compared to the issues in the 1990s, there is a more balanced media and people will not get a spin favoring the liberals.





    you are totally deluded and out of touch with the "Real World" if you seriously believe this steaming pile of horse shiote icon_exclaim.gif
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    Jul 15, 2011 2:33 PM GMT
    rnch said
    socalfitness said
    surreallife saidBoth sides are to blame for the mess the USA is in, but if the US defaults it will likely be the Republicans who take more of the heat from the voters due to the intransigence of the tea partiers on taxes.

    Even if an agreement is reached, foreign investors (e.g. China) in American debt have to be wondering whether the US politicans are capable of dealing with the country's fiscal challenges.

    I don't think the Republicans will take more of the blame for the following reasons:
    1) The public already has a negative opinion of the Administration's handling of the economy. This debt issue will be seen in that context to a large degree.
    2) Whenever there is the appearance of chaos, the President ultimately takes more of the blame because he is expected to show leadership and calm the waters.
    3) Both sides have been rigid. (Democrats with their class warfare and trying to renege on tax negotiations made to keep Bush tax cuts in place. They knew full well that the debt ceiling would need to be dealt with. On the Republican's part, they should consider revenue by closing loopholes, but they must oppose tax rate increases.)
    4) Compared to the issues in the 1990s, there is a more balanced media and people will not get a spin favoring the liberals.

    you are totally deluded and out of touch with the "Real World" if you seriously believe this steaming pile of horse shiote icon_exclaim.gif

    Is this the best you can do? You can't discuss or debate the individual points intelligently? Do you have such a limited ability?
  • rnch

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    Jul 15, 2011 2:39 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    rnch said
    socalfitness said
    surreallife saidBoth sides are to blame for the mess the USA is in, but if the US defaults it will likely be the Republicans who take more of the heat from the voters due to the intransigence of the tea partiers on taxes.

    Even if an agreement is reached, foreign investors (e.g. China) in American debt have to be wondering whether the US politicans are capable of dealing with the country's fiscal challenges.

    I don't think the Republicans will take more of the blame for the following reasons:
    1) The public already has a negative opinion of the Administration's handling of the economy. This debt issue will be seen in that context to a large degree.
    2) Whenever there is the appearance of chaos, the President ultimately takes more of the blame because he is expected to show leadership and calm the waters.
    3) Both sides have been rigid. (Democrats with their class warfare and trying to renege on tax negotiations made to keep Bush tax cuts in place. They knew full well that the debt ceiling would need to be dealt with. On the Republican's part, they should consider revenue by closing loopholes, but they must oppose tax rate increases.)
    4) Compared to the issues in the 1990s, there is a more balanced media and people will not get a spin favoring the liberals.

    you are totally deluded and out of touch with the "Real World" if you seriously believe this steaming pile of horse shiote icon_exclaim.gif

    Is this the best you can do? You can't discuss or debate the individual points intelligently? Do you have such a limited ability?




    if you really and trully believe what you posted; and are not just playing "devil's advocate" by slinging this crapppppp out....then YOU are clearly the one with "limitied ability".


    icon_idea.gif
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    Jul 15, 2011 2:47 PM GMT
    rnch said
    socalfitness said
    rnch said
    socalfitness said
    surreallife saidBoth sides are to blame for the mess the USA is in, but if the US defaults it will likely be the Republicans who take more of the heat from the voters due to the intransigence of the tea partiers on taxes.

    Even if an agreement is reached, foreign investors (e.g. China) in American debt have to be wondering whether the US politicans are capable of dealing with the country's fiscal challenges.

    I don't think the Republicans will take more of the blame for the following reasons:
    1) The public already has a negative opinion of the Administration's handling of the economy. This debt issue will be seen in that context to a large degree.
    2) Whenever there is the appearance of chaos, the President ultimately takes more of the blame because he is expected to show leadership and calm the waters.
    3) Both sides have been rigid. (Democrats with their class warfare and trying to renege on tax negotiations made to keep Bush tax cuts in place. They knew full well that the debt ceiling would need to be dealt with. On the Republican's part, they should consider revenue by closing loopholes, but they must oppose tax rate increases.)
    4) Compared to the issues in the 1990s, there is a more balanced media and people will not get a spin favoring the liberals.

    you are totally deluded and out of touch with the "Real World" if you seriously believe this steaming pile of horse shiote icon_exclaim.gif

    Is this the best you can do? You can't discuss or debate the individual points intelligently? Do you have such a limited ability?




    if you really and trully believe what you posted; and are not just playing "devil's advocate" by slinging this crapppppp out....then YOU are clearly the one with "limitied ability".


    icon_idea.gif

    You can't make a substantive point to back up what you said. There ought to be an IQ test to post here. Both sides would still be represented without the riff raff.
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    Jul 15, 2011 2:55 PM GMT
    No, I'm pretty sure he's right Socal. The Republicans will take the heat for this.
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    Jul 15, 2011 3:21 PM GMT
    ConfederateGhost saidNo, I'm pretty sure he's right Socal. The Republicans will take the heat for this.

    It's fair to have that opinion. I stated mine and provided reasons. You can agree or disagree with those reasons, either their accuracy or their relevancy. But some messages above, not yours, demonstrate what should be below the standards of intelligent discussion.
  • rnch

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    Jul 15, 2011 4:14 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    ConfederateGhost saidNo, I'm pretty sure he's right Socal. The Republicans will take the heat for this.

    It's fair to have that opinion. I stated mine and provided reasons. You can agree or disagree with those reasons, either their accuracy or their relevancy. But some messages above, not yours, demonstrate what should be below the standards of intelligent discussion.





    so speaketh Lord Piffle!

    he has deigned to climb off his High Horse, onto his soap box and issue a regal proclamation down to the great unwashed masses the he (alone) considers to be "beneath his royal self"....let the democrats eat cake, hey piff?



    icon_lol.gif
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    Jul 15, 2011 4:34 PM GMT
    rnch said
    socalfitness said
    ConfederateGhost saidNo, I'm pretty sure he's right Socal. The Republicans will take the heat for this.

    It's fair to have that opinion. I stated mine and provided reasons. You can agree or disagree with those reasons, either their accuracy or their relevancy. But some messages above, not yours, demonstrate what should be below the standards of intelligent discussion.





    so speaketh Lord Piffle!

    he has deigned to climb off his High Horse, onto his soap box and issue a regal proclamation down to the great unwashed masses the he (alone) considers to be "beneath his royal self"....let the democrats eat cake, hey piff?



    icon_lol.gif


    Er - arrogance is believing that your opinions require no substantiation or detail - which Socal has at least provided.
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    Jul 15, 2011 4:55 PM GMT
    How's the Canadian Tea Party working out for ya, Riddler?
  • rnch

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    Jul 15, 2011 5:06 PM GMT
    ConfederateGhost saidHow's the Canadian Tea Party working out for ya, Riddler?






    icon_lol.gif





    icon_wink.gif
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19138

    Jul 15, 2011 5:32 PM GMT
    Oh, HELL, who knows, maybe a little Anarchy would do us all some good icon_lol.gif
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    Jul 15, 2011 6:57 PM GMT
    riddler78 said
    rnch said
    socalfitness said
    ConfederateGhost saidNo, I'm pretty sure he's right Socal. The Republicans will take the heat for this.

    It's fair to have that opinion. I stated mine and provided reasons. You can agree or disagree with those reasons, either their accuracy or their relevancy. But some messages above, not yours, demonstrate what should be below the standards of intelligent discussion.





    so speaketh Lord Piffle!

    he has deigned to climb off his High Horse, onto his soap box and issue a regal proclamation down to the great unwashed masses the he (alone) considers to be "beneath his royal self"....let the democrats eat cake, hey piff?



    icon_lol.gif


    Er - arrogance is believing that your opinions require no substantiation or detail - which Socal has at least provided.

    He only should wish it were arrogance. It really is an inability.
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    Jul 15, 2011 7:07 PM GMT
    rnch said
    socalfitness said
    surreallife saidBoth sides are to blame for the mess the USA is in, but if the US defaults it will likely be the Republicans who take more of the heat from the voters due to the intransigence of the tea partiers on taxes.

    Even if an agreement is reached, foreign investors (e.g. China) in American debt have to be wondering whether the US politicans are capable of dealing with the country's fiscal challenges.

    I don't think the Republicans will take more of the blame for the following reasons:
    1) The public already has a negative opinion of the Administration's handling of the economy. This debt issue will be seen in that context to a large degree.
    2) Whenever there is the appearance of chaos, the President ultimately takes more of the blame because he is expected to show leadership and calm the waters.
    3) Both sides have been rigid. (Democrats with their class warfare and trying to renege on tax negotiations made to keep Bush tax cuts in place. They knew full well that the debt ceiling would need to be dealt with. On the Republican's part, they should consider revenue by closing loopholes, but they must oppose tax rate increases.)
    4) Compared to the issues in the 1990s, there is a more balanced media and people will not get a spin favoring the liberals.





    you are totally deluded and out of touch with the "Real World" if you seriously believe this steaming pile of horse shiote icon_exclaim.gif





    Yes, socal's delusion has reached legendary proportions.

    Socal cites the "negative opinion of the Administration's handling of the economy", completely ignoring the fact that the American people's opinion of the REPUB'S handling of the economy is WORSE than President Obama's!
    In fact , this poll released YESTERDAY, finds that the American people trust President Obama on the economy more than the Repubs by a 45% to 38% margin.
    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/voters-blame-bush-more-obama-economy-143014602.html

    The most pertinent finding in the poll is the fact that 48% of Americans say they will blame the Repubs if a debt agreement isn't struck, while only 34% say they'll blame Obama.

    Also, the poll finds that a whopping 67% of Americans agree with the Democratic position that tax increases on the wealthy should be part of the debt reduction agreement.

    The simple facts make it clear just how silly and delusional socal really is.
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    Jul 15, 2011 7:53 PM GMT
    Look at pct approval on Obama's handling on the economy, job performance, and opinion of US on the wrong track. Absolutely devastating numbers for an incumbent.
  • rnch

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    Jul 15, 2011 8:22 PM GMT
    socalfitness saidLook at pct approval on Obama's handling on the economy, job performance, and opinion of US on the wrong track. Absolutely devastating numbers for an incumbent.




    my' Lord Piffle: do you recall what the numbers of the train wreck of a "man" (dubya bush) President Obama replaced were?


    i don't recall your highness commenting on those numbers!




    icon_lol.gif
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    Jul 15, 2011 10:27 PM GMT
    Socialfitness makes some valid points, undoubtedly a substantial number of American voters will agree with him. I think where the Republican Party is vulnerable is the inability of the Tea Party supporters to accept any increases in revenue, including closing tax loopholes. I believe if it was up to John Boehner there would have been a deal by now.

    What is most frustrating about this issue is that nobody seems to be talking about the nitty gritty numbers. During my lunch hour today I poured over the latest fiscal numbers for the US Government (released by the Treasury Department). This is a task I do monthly to educate myself on the issue (I work in Finance so it interests me anyways). Once you add up Defence, Health Care, Veteran Affairs, Social Security and interest on the debt, there is very little left over to cut. Even more scary is how fast the interest on the debt is climbing (over $30 billion year over year).

    It would be nice if the different factions would sit down and actually go through the US government's finances and start analyzing what could be cut or re-structured and what impact it would have on US society. Instead the public gets political posturing and tired old platforms.