will next month become November, 1929 ALL over again? DEEPLY worried here....

  • rnch

    Posts: 11524

    Jul 15, 2011 5:16 PM GMT
    makes me realize what my Grandfather and Grandmother were thinking as the Great Depression started......



    the "Smell of Arrogance and Stupidity" is making Washington D. C. reek icon_exclaim.gif


    icon_sad.gif


    icon_sad.gif


    icon_sad.gif


    icon_sad.gif
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19136

    Jul 15, 2011 5:35 PM GMT
    I think it will all turn out to me much ado about nothing.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 15, 2011 6:37 PM GMT
    But then politicians and diapers should be changed for the the very same reasion. Now there is a very bad smell coming out of the White House; must be time for a change.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 15, 2011 7:31 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ saidI think it will all turn out to me much ado about nothing.


    The fact that Y2K didn't turn out to be catastrophic didn't mean that people didn't furiously patch all computers they could get their hands on.

    Family members of seriously ill patients sometimes say to me, "He doesn't look uncomfortable on the ventilator." They don't realize that the past 2-3 hours we could have been furiously pumping on his chest, pushing innumerable amps of bicarb, norepi, amiodarone, etc, and shocking his heart a zillion times. The nurse had cleaned all the debris of that battle, and made the patient presentable.

    The president is privately negotiating with banks as we speak.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 15, 2011 9:22 PM GMT
    rnch saidmakes me realize what my Grandfather and Grandmother were thinking as the Great Depression started......
    the "Smell of Arrogance and Stupidity" is making Washington D. C. reek icon_exclaim.gif


    I've had this feeling for the last TWO years...it's just gotten worse. My mom used to say, however, that her memories of those days were some of the best in her life. No body had anything, yet people really pitched in and helped each other out. Bonding like no other time in this country's history.
    My dad had money...so he took care of about 50 family members...God Bless Him!!!
  • rnch

    Posts: 11524

    Jul 15, 2011 9:48 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 saidI've been saying this for at least the past year or so on here, and many of you (including the OP) have been mocking me for it.

    The entire system is going to collapse. You can't run up almost $5 trillion in debt in just 30 months. You can't have half the population paying ZERO in Federal income taxes. It is just not sustainable.

    Whether the collapse happens on August 2nd or not doesn't really matter, but unless we reverse course now in a big way, we're pretty much doomed.




    it's time to avoid our economic collapse by :raising revenue via the past practice proven method of taxing the rich and removing their tax avoidance loopholes.



    icon_exclaim.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 15, 2011 9:54 PM GMT
    rnch said
    southbeach1500 saidI've been saying this for at least the past year or so on here, and many of you (including the OP) have been mocking me for it.

    The entire system is going to collapse. You can't run up almost $5 trillion in debt in just 30 months. You can't have half the population paying ZERO in Federal income taxes. It is just not sustainable.

    Whether the collapse happens on August 2nd or not doesn't really matter, but unless we reverse course now in a big way, we're pretty much doomed.




    time to raise revenue by the past practice proven method of taxing the rich and removing their tax avoidance loopholes.



    icon_exclaim.gif




    YUP.
    It's the tried and tested way to pay down a huge National Debt without negatively impacting the economy.

    And, if next month becomes another Nov. 1929, the Repubs will take the blame - for their extremist refusal to negotiate in a sane and bipartisan way on a debt reduction deal.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 15, 2011 9:56 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 saidI've been saying this for at least the past year or so on here, and many of you (including the OP) have been mocking me for it.

    The entire system is going to collapse. You can't run up almost $5 trillion in debt in just 30 months. You can't have half the population paying ZERO in Federal income taxes. It is just not sustainable.

    Whether the collapse happens on August 2nd or not doesn't really matter, but unless we reverse course now in a big way, we're pretty much doomed.


    If only you weren't a rambling, dim-wit hording canned goods in a medium grade condo in South Florida someone may have listened to your words of wisdom.

    Oh, well - what can ya do?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 15, 2011 9:59 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 saidI've been saying this for at least the past year or so on here, and many of you (including the OP) have been mocking me for it.

    The entire system is going to collapse. You can't run up almost $5 trillion in debt in just 30 months. You can't have half the population paying ZERO in Federal income taxes. It is just not sustainable.

    Whether the collapse happens on August 2nd or not doesn't really matter, but unless we reverse course now in a big way, we're pretty much doomed.


    So the answer is to cut spending AND taxes on the wealthy?

    Yes, lets not any of us pay taxes!!!

    lol.... yes. That's a great idea.

    And no I dont think the whole economy is going to collapse. They will figure some shit out....
  • mybud

    Posts: 11837

    Jul 15, 2011 10:02 PM GMT
    Don't feed into the conservative bullshit coming from the republican talking head fuck offs....Obama will say ...I got this.....done......
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 15, 2011 10:27 PM GMT
    IMHO and that of a lot of commentators, Obama is winning the public fight. He is seen as moving to the center, opposing the liberals in his own party, and as willing to compromise. Boehner, Cantor and O'Connell are seen as reckless and unwilling to compromise taxing the rich for the greater good of the country. The three Republicans have less charisma than the three blind mice. A lot of tea-party Republicans would like to see a default, heaven only knows why.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 15, 2011 10:29 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    OK, fine. Since you and the rest of the liberals have - I'm quite sure - come to this conclusion independently and with much analysis... approximately how much revenue will be raised by "taxing the rich" and "removing their tax avoidance loopholes?"

    Really, I'm curious, because I've done the numbers and presented it here in the past and it is not even half of the Obama annual deficit.

    So go ahead, share your wisdom with specific numbers and prove my suspicion that you are all a bunch of brainless liberal hens just repeating what's being fed to you by liberal "leaders."


    Done...

    Budget of the Congressional Progressive Caucus
    Fiscal Year 2012


    The People’s Budget eliminates the deficit in 10 years, puts Americans back to work and restores our economic competitiveness. The People’s Budget recognizes that in order to compete, our nation needs every American to be productive, and in order to be productive we need to raise our skills to meet modern needs.

    Our Budget Eliminates the Deficit and Raises a $31 Billion Surplus In Ten Years
    Our budget protects Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid and responsibly eliminates the deficit by targeting its main drivers: the Bush Tax Cuts, the wars overseas, and the causes and effects of the recent recession.

    Our Budget Puts America Back to Work & Restores America’s Competitiveness
    • Trains teachers and restores schools; rebuilds roads and bridges and ensures that users help pay for them
    • Invests in job creation, clean energy and broadband infrastructure, housing and R&D programs

    Our Budget Creates a Fairer Tax System
    • Ends the recently passed upper-income tax cuts and lets Bush-era tax cuts expire at the end of 2012
    • Extends tax credits for the middle class, families, and students
    • Creates new tax brackets that range from 45% starting at $1 million to 49% for $1 billion or more
    • Implements a progressive estate tax
    • Eliminates corporate welfare for oil, gas, and coal companies; closes loopholes for multinational corporations
    • Enacts a financial crisis responsibility fee and a financial speculation tax on derivatives and foreign exchange

    Our Budget Protects Health
    • Enacts a health care public option and negotiates prescription payments with pharmaceutical companies
    • Prevents any cuts to Medicare physician payments for a decade

    Our Budget Safeguards Social Security for the Next 75 Years
    • Eliminates the individual Social Security payroll cap to make sure upper income earners pay their fair share
    • Increases benefits based on higher contributions on the employee side

    Our Budget Brings Our Troops Home
    • Responsibly ends our wars in Iraq and Afghanistan to leave America more secure both home and abroad
    • Cuts defense spending by reducing conventional forces, procurement, and costly R&D programs

    Our Budget’s Bottom Line
    • Deficit reduction of $5.6 trillion
    • Spending cuts of $1.7 trillion
    • Revenue increase of $3.9 trillion
    • Public investment $1.7 trillion
  • jim_sf

    Posts: 2094

    Jul 15, 2011 10:45 PM GMT
    antelope saidA lot of tea-party Republicans would like to see a default, heaven only knows why.


    The general theory is that bad economy = no re-election for Obama. Therefore, if they can ensure that the economy sucks....
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 15, 2011 11:00 PM GMT
    The tax base of the "rich" in the WW2 through the Eisenhower years (90%+ taxes on the highest revenue earners) was a lot different: most of the profits and earnings were generated by the actual production of things.

    Industrial goods and consumer goods.

    Most of this capacity is now in China, Japan, and elsewhere in Asia.

    And given cheap offshore labour, and abusive practices at home by Big Labour Unions, that capacity is not likely to ever return to our shores.

    Today most money is "made" by shuffling other People's pooled assets around, most of which is over-leveraged and very likely to disappear in a major market decline and also when our creditors wake up and realize America has very little economic hope in the short term (next 15-30 years).

    Raising taxes on the rich won't help but a little when all the real capital generation is offshore, and the virtual capital generation is a very shaky house of cards. Those "rich" have the power to keep loopholes open, and should that fail, they have the means to quickly extract themselves before any so-called New Socialist Revolutionaries can lay hand on their wealth.

    The moneychangers will soon be forced out of the financial temples to foreign locales that either have real capital investment possibilities - or - such places where they can ply their financial shell games with enough suckers to absorb losses.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 15, 2011 11:16 PM GMT
    "Most of this capacity is now in China, Japan, and elsewhere in Asia."

    Alphatrigger, go to this page and see that the US is still 2nd only to the combined EU in terms of industrial output. Yes, in terms of GDP percent it's a lot less than China's mix (where industrial production is almost half of their GDP), but hopefully you get my point.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_sector_composition
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 15, 2011 11:17 PM GMT
    No, the fed government is taking in plenty of revenue.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 15, 2011 11:40 PM GMT
    Most if not all politicians are wealthy. They create those tax loopholes for themselves, so if you want to fix the problem just make a very clear cut tax system.

    They don't care about the group they supposedly represent. I mean honestly in the past 20 years have you REALLY noticed a huge different in your taxes from President to President?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 15, 2011 11:55 PM GMT
    It is just a bunch of political floundering back and forth, one party trying to get the upper hand on the other.....BUT neither one will let it go too far.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 16, 2011 12:43 AM GMT
    q1w2e3 said"Most of this capacity is now in China, Japan, and elsewhere in Asia."

    Alphatrigger, go to this page and see that the US is still 2nd only to the combined EU in terms of industrial output. Yes, in terms of GDP percent it's a lot less than China's mix (where industrial production is almost half of their GDP), but hopefully you get my point.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_sector_composition


    Exactly. And tax policy,which favors the financial sector over manufacturing, plays a huge role in why the money is pooling in the hedge funds and private equity firms, which create nothing.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 16, 2011 4:15 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    rnch said
    southbeach1500 saidI've been saying this for at least the past year or so on here, and many of you (including the OP) have been mocking me for it.

    The entire system is going to collapse. You can't run up almost $5 trillion in debt in just 30 months. You can't have half the population paying ZERO in Federal income taxes. It is just not sustainable.

    Whether the collapse happens on August 2nd or not doesn't really matter, but unless we reverse course now in a big way, we're pretty much doomed.


    it's time to avoid our economic collapse by :raising revenue via the past practice proven method of taxing the rich and removing their tax avoidance loopholes.



    OK, fine. Since you and the rest of the liberals have - I'm quite sure - come to this conclusion independently and with much analysis... approximately how much revenue will be raised by "taxing the rich" and "removing their tax avoidance loopholes?"

    Really, I'm curious, because I've done the numbers and presented it here in the past and it is not even half of the Obama annual deficit.

    So go ahead, share your wisdom with specific numbers and prove my suspicion that you are all a bunch of brainless liberal hens just repeating what's being fed to you by liberal "leaders."




    Here are the facts re: the fiscal insanity of the Repub party's tax policies.

    The Bush tax cuts have added about 2.5 TRILLION dollars to the National Debt.
    http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/study-bush-tax-cuts-cost-more-twice-m
    Extending the Bush tax cuts permanently, as the Repubs are DESPERATE to do - would add 3.9 TRILLION dollars to the National Debt in the first ten years alone.
    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/09/putting_the_39_trillion_extens.html

    There's no budget proposal anyone in either party has ever proposed that would blow up the National Debt as badly as the Repubs proposal to make the Bush tax cuts permanent.

    PLUS, the record shows VERY clearly that the Bush tax cuts - which have been in full effect for nearly a decade now - DO NOT CREATE A STRONG ECONOMY OR STRONG JOB CREATION.
    DUH!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 16, 2011 4:33 AM GMT
    rnch said
    southbeach1500 saidI've been saying this for at least the past year or so on here, and many of you (including the OP) have been mocking me for it.

    The entire system is going to collapse. You can't run up almost $5 trillion in debt in just 30 months. You can't have half the population paying ZERO in Federal income taxes. It is just not sustainable.

    Whether the collapse happens on August 2nd or not doesn't really matter, but unless we reverse course now in a big way, we're pretty much doomed.




    it's time to avoid our economic collapse by :raising revenue via the past practice proven method of taxing the rich and removing their tax avoidance loopholes.



    icon_exclaim.gif

    Now if it was not for the rich in America, and those who come to America to shop. America would be in an even worse state than Obama has put it in.

    Spending by the rich creates jobs. This is a time when the rich should be doing all the spending they can, to keep others in jobs. So if people in the public eye take lavish holidays that keeps air port workers off benefits. So why tax and punish the rich even more, when they already contribute so much to America, and it's working class. icon_idea.gif
  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Jul 17, 2011 1:44 AM GMT
    I agree that what the Republicans are doing could be catastrophic.
    The Teabagger Republicans, especially, are too stupid to compromise.

    End the trillion dollar wars.
    End the Bush tax cuts.
    Start a national jobs program, similar to the one after the first Great Depression.
    Levy huge tariffs on American companies that manufacture their crap overseas, using slave labor, then ship it back here to sell at high prices.
  • rnch

    Posts: 11524

    Jul 17, 2011 10:53 AM GMT
    Webster666 saidI agree that what the Republicans are doing could be catastrophic.
    The Teabagger Republicans, especially, are too stupid to compromise.

    End the trillion dollar wars.
    End the Bush tax cuts.
    Start a national jobs program, similar to the one after the first Great Depression.
    Levy huge tariffs on American companies that manufacture their crap overseas, using slave labor, then ship it back here to sell at high prices.





    yes!


    all "do-able" and logical ways to cut the budget.
  • DanOmatic

    Posts: 1155

    Jul 17, 2011 11:07 AM GMT
    Nobody has mentioned the fact that 40% of our budget is consumed by the military, and it is larger than any other country's military allocation. It has become a sacred cow in our hyper-militarized society, but it has been bleeding us dry--even when we weren't fighting two wars simultaneously. Yet no one in Congress has the balls to point that out to the public.

    Guess what? That money is not going to improve the lives of the men and women who are serving in the front lines (though there's a lot of patriotic BS rhetoric to mislead the masses into thinking so)--it's going largely to defense contractors for shiny new toys that cost billions. It's not for nothing that Eisenhower (not exactly given to radicalism) upon leaving office warned against becoming enslaved to the military-industrial sector.

    Can't have guns AND butter...
  • rnch

    Posts: 11524

    Jul 17, 2011 11:30 AM GMT
    NC3athlete saidNobody has mentioned the fact that 40% of our budget is consumed by the military, and it is larger than any other country's military allocation. It has become a sacred cow in our hyper-militarized society, but it has been bleeding us dry--even when we weren't fighting two wars simultaneously. Yet no one in Congress has the balls to point that out to the public.

    Guess what? That money is not going to improve the lives of the men and women who are serving in the front lines (though there's a lot of patriotic BS rhetoric to mislead the masses into thinking so)--it's going largely to defense contractors for shiny new toys that cost billions. It's not for nothing that Eisenhower (not exactly given to radicalism) upon leaving office warned against becoming enslaved to the military-industrial sector.

    Can't have guns AND butter...





    yes!



    IF congress and our President are serious about reducing the budget; then ALL useless foreign wars budgets should be gutted and eventually eliminated

    my fellow Americans: do YOU feel "safer" with our military fighting (and dying) in two foreign wars in the sand dunes?.



    icon_idea.gif