So this guy got punched off his bike proving hate crime bills do nothing...wait what?

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    Jul 16, 2011 4:32 PM GMT
    I woke up to find this in my Facebook feed

    LaSalviaTweet3.jpg

    BarronHateCrime1.jpg

    BarronHateCrime2.jpg

    For those of you that don't know, these two guys are the two top ranking members of GOProud (you know, the gay conservative group that got kicked out of CPAC and is banned from ever attending again because they called a hateful bigot a hateful bigot)

    How would him having been armed stopped this? I mean if someone punches you off your bike, chances are you didn't see it coming. And lets say he was armed, how exactly would that help if those very same laws allowed the attackers to be armed as well?

    That being said, I can assume he won't be taking perusing this as a hate crime...as the legislation is clearly useless...
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    Jul 16, 2011 4:44 PM GMT
    Yeah, laws on murder are so useless, because people keep committing them.icon_lol.gif
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Jul 16, 2011 5:40 PM GMT
    I wonder if he filed a police report.
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    Jul 16, 2011 6:01 PM GMT
    GOProud members don't like gay people.

    http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2011/02/12/GOProud_Member_Doesnt_Like_Gay_People/
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    Jul 16, 2011 6:07 PM GMT
    The Hate Crime Law only works if the person is tried and convicted of a hate crime.

    You have to file a report with authorities, the person have to be charged...and so on, and so on and so on!

    Did I miss something here in this guy's tweet?

    Seriously I want to know?
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    Jul 16, 2011 6:07 PM GMT
    introjock saidGOProud members don't like gay people.

    http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2011/02/12/GOProud_Member_Doesnt_Like_Gay_People/


    Oh I'm well aware, I also love that clip. "I think Sarah Palin should be president, she reminds me of my mother". Sadly that guy is part of a group of "Homocons" from my area that do things like attending union events holding signs that say things like "support Scott Walker, Not Union Scum!". I think there are only like 3 of them though.
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    Jul 16, 2011 6:10 PM GMT
    Ducky47 saidThe Hate Crime Law only works if the person is tried and convicted of a hate crime.

    You have to file a report with authorities, the person have to be charged...and so on, and so on and so on!

    Did I miss something here in this guy's tweet?

    Seriously I want to know?


    You would have to understand the history of GOProud. They are a "gay conservative group" that only "focuses on gay issues", yet they don't support ANY gay rights issues and even held an event where they PAID (like with money) Ann Coulter to be the guest speaker at said event.

    This is the actual poster for that event.

    homocon.jpg


    Rundown of event

    http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/09/ann-coulter-at-homocon-marriage-is-not-a-civil-right-youre-not-black.php

    In one of a series of racially insensitive remarks that pervaded her speech, Coulter added, "Marriage is not a civil right. You're not black." It was part of a larger argument on which she later elaborated, telling the crowd that the 14th Amendment only applies to African-Americans and that it does not, in fact, apply to women, LGBT people or other minorities
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    Jul 16, 2011 6:21 PM GMT
    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    Ducky47 saidThe Hate Crime Law only works if the person is tried and convicted of a hate crime.

    You have to file a report with authorities, the person have to be charged...and so on, and so on and so on!

    Did I miss something here in this guy's tweet?

    Seriously I want to know?


    You would have to understand the history of GOProud. They are a "gay conservative group" that only "focuses on gay issues", yet they don't support ANY gay rights issues and even held an event where they PAID (like with money) Ann Coulter to be the guest speaker at said event.

    This is the actual poster for that event.

    homocon.jpg


    Rundown of event

    http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/09/ann-coulter-at-homocon-marriage-is-not-a-civil-right-youre-not-black.php

    In one of a series of racially insensitive remarks that pervaded her speech, Coulter added, "Marriage is not a civil right. You're not black." It was part of a larger argument on which she later elaborated, telling the crowd that the 14th Amendment only applies to African-Americans and that it does not, in fact, apply to women, LGBT people or other minorities


    The fact that they compared Judy Garland to that cadaver in a cocktail dress proves they really don't know anything about being gay!
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Jul 16, 2011 6:27 PM GMT
    introjock said
    The fact that they compared Judy Garland to that cadaver in a cocktail dress proves they really don't know anything about being gay!


    icon_lol.gif
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Jul 16, 2011 6:29 PM GMT
    They will never accomplish anything with this garbage.

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    Jul 16, 2011 6:34 PM GMT
    Ducky47 saidThe Hate Crime Law only works if the person is tried and convicted of a hate crime.

    You have to file a report with authorities, the person have to be charged...and so on, and so on and so on!

    Did I miss something here in this guy's tweet?

    Seriously I want to know?


    Though I don't support Barron's assertion, he could be arguing that hate crime laws do not have an effective deterrent element. In other words, having additional hate crime punishments do not make potential law breakers too scared to commit the crime.

    However an assertion like that can be applied to all laws that are broken and the result would be that any law that is broken is "worthless" and "[doesn't] work". What Barron forgets is that while hate crime laws do carry some element of deterrence, their primary role is to be restorative justice to the community that was victimized.
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    Jul 16, 2011 6:36 PM GMT
    coolarmydude saidThey will never accomplish anything with this garbage.




    He doesn't like gay people??? I've seen more masculine men at drag shows.....PERFORMING! I actually created a thread a while back about how conservative gays equate being Conservative to masculinity. This just adds visual proof to my theory.
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    Jul 16, 2011 7:01 PM GMT
    We are everywhere. Suck it up, white Liberals.

    Hate crimes bills are political posturing, nothing more.

    "When seconds count, the police are just minutes away."
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    Jul 16, 2011 7:10 PM GMT
    Dahas said
    Ducky47 saidThe Hate Crime Law only works if the person is tried and convicted of a hate crime.

    You have to file a report with authorities, the person have to be charged...and so on, and so on and so on!

    Did I miss something here in this guy's tweet?

    Seriously I want to know?


    Though I don't support Barron's assertion, he could be arguing that hate crime laws do not have an effective deterrent element. In other words, having additional hate crime punishments do not make potential law breakers too scared to commit the crime.
    Nicely stated. A man with a logical thought process!

    However an assertion like that can be applied to all laws that are broken and the result would be that any law that is broken is "worthless" and "[doesn't] work". What Barron forgets is that while hate crime laws do carry some element of deterrence, their primary role is to be restorative justice to the community that was victimized.
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    Jul 16, 2011 8:40 PM GMT
    DoomsDayAlpaca saidI woke up to find this in my Facebook feed

    LaSalviaTweet3.jpg

    BarronHateCrime1.jpg

    BarronHateCrime2.jpg

    For those of you that don't know, these two guys are the two top ranking members of GOProud (you know, the gay conservative group that got kicked out of CPAC and is banned from ever attending again because they called a hateful bigot a hateful bigot)

    How would him having been armed stopped this? I mean if someone punches you off your bike, chances are you didn't see it coming. And lets say he was armed, how exactly would that help if those very same laws allowed the attackers to be armed as well?

    That being said, I can assume he won't be taking perusing this as a hate crime...as the legislation is clearly useless...


    He was riding a bike? Instead of driving a big masculine American car? What a fucking fag. Of course he got punched. [/sarcasm]
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    Jul 16, 2011 8:53 PM GMT
    q1w2e3 saidYeah, laws on murder are so useless, because people keep committing them.icon_lol.gif


    This is a stupid comment which misses the point of why people object to hate crime laws. I object to hate crime laws because we already have laws protecting ALL citizens from assault and murder.

    Imposing varying degrees of punishment depending on whom the victim is, is wrong. It not only institutionalizes barriers between different groups of people, but it also says that some people's safety is more important than others.

  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Jul 16, 2011 8:59 PM GMT
    Hate crimes don't just target an individual. The individual is a target of contempt and angst against a certain demographic by the perpetrator.

    http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/civilrights/hate_crimes

    Hate crimes attacks aren't personal towards the individual, even though the victim is personally injured.
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    Jul 16, 2011 9:12 PM GMT
    ^just checked out the FBI website.

    This is ridiculous. As the previous poster said, the victim sustains the injury individually, and individuals are protected against assault.
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    Jul 16, 2011 9:17 PM GMT
    field123 said^just checked out the FBI website.

    This is ridiculous. As the previous poster said, the victim sustains the injury individually, and individuals are protected against assault.


    field, different reasons for killing another or assaulting them determines the charges laid and the sentence given.

    This has been the case for many years, which is why there is 1st, 2nd degree murder and manslaughter, as an example.

    Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder


    and here: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/2011/06/15/f-hate-crimes.html
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    Jul 16, 2011 9:19 PM GMT
    Um can we prove that he was called a homosexual slur? File a police report and charge the perpetrator with assault. Does he expect someone from the Internet to do it for him?

    Sorry "Hate Crime Laws" are a little ridiculous. It reinforces a victim mentality . It appears that some people love to use special laws to their fullest benefit. For example, there was a College Student who inflicted wounds on himself at a Campus and claimed he was "gay bashed" icon_rolleyes.gif It was later revealed that he was disingenuous.

    Furthermore, there are Heterosexual men attacked and called "Faggots" do those crimes count as Hate Crimes as well?
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    Jul 16, 2011 11:53 PM GMT
    field123 said
    q1w2e3 saidYeah, laws on murder are so useless, because people keep committing them.icon_lol.gif


    This is a stupid comment which misses the point of why people object to hate crime laws. I object to hate crime laws because we already have laws protecting ALL citizens from assault and murder.

    Imposing varying degrees of punishment depending on whom the victim is, is wrong. It not only institutionalizes barriers between different groups of people, but it also says that some people's safety is more important than others.



    You do realize what makes hate crimes so dangerous right? They are made against a person or group based solely on a part of who they are, its as much intimidation as it is a violent act.
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    Jul 16, 2011 11:53 PM GMT
    Scruffypup said
    coolarmydude saidThey will never accomplish anything with this garbage.




    He doesn't like gay people??? I've seen more masculine men at drag shows.....PERFORMING! I actually created a thread a while back about how conservative gays equate being Conservative to masculinity. This just adds visual proof to my theory.


    Well like they say...their gays are more masculine than liberal straights.
  • DenveRyk

    Posts: 167

    Jul 17, 2011 12:31 AM GMT
    DodgedBullet said

    .....Furthermore, there are Heterosexual men attacked and called "Faggots" do those crimes count as Hate Crimes as well?

    Actually, YES !!
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    Jul 17, 2011 2:56 AM GMT
    DoomsDayAlpaca said
    field123 said
    q1w2e3 saidYeah, laws on murder are so useless, because people keep committing them.icon_lol.gif


    This is a stupid comment which misses the point of why people object to hate crime laws. I object to hate crime laws because we already have laws protecting ALL citizens from assault and murder.

    Imposing varying degrees of punishment depending on whom the victim is, is wrong. It not only institutionalizes barriers between different groups of people, but it also says that some people's safety is more important than others.



    You do realize what makes hate crimes so dangerous right? They are made against a person or group based solely on a part of who they are, its as much intimidation as it is a violent act.


    And that's why we have genocide trials.

  • nessthing

    Posts: 68

    Jul 17, 2011 3:20 AM GMT
    When someone commits a hate crime, not only the individual(s) who are personally harmed by that crime have their civil rights infringed upon. If they were targeted because they're Zoroastrians, or a lesbian couple, or an Armenian or whatever, there is extra damage done to everybody who is also a Zoroastrian, lesbian, or Armenian. The crime instills fear in people in those demographics simply because they are in those demographics.

    For that extra damage, people convicted of hate crimes are given extra punishment. This is not a hard concept.