ARE WE AMERICANS NUMB OR JUST DUMB

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    Apr 23, 2008 8:04 PM GMT
    Its been about two weeks now since ABC interviewed Bush about his knowledge of his cabinet discussing in detail about interrigation procedures which up to that point had been considered torture, historically, according to our laws, war treaties, and geneva conventions, (which become our law once adopted/radified by congress)bushes admission was ---"AND I APPROVED". Here is a detailed article about this issue that I read from my "YAHOO NEWS ALERTS" at ---http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=25515 ----- Since the ABC interview it is noteable that none of the major medias have exposed this torture issue, as newsworthy, if there has been any exposure its been miniscule at best. WHY THE SILENCE???? Have Americans been so baraged by lawbreaking by this administration, that they don't want to hear anymore? ARE WE NUMB?? OR TOO DUMB TO CARE?? A decade ago, this would have become a major headline in the news, and a public outcry would have ensued to bring down those responsible. (or I at least assume so, given the reaction to the Clinton/Lewinski scandle) I think we as americans/and our leaders, are no better than the way we treat our worst enemies or our weekest citizens, that this for our own good as a country and for our standing in the world, should not, and cannot be let to stand without action against it. SO WHICH IS IT, ARE WE NUMB OR JUST DUMB??? SHOULD THIS BE LET GO?? OR SHOULD HEADS ROLE FROM THE TOP DOWN????
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    Apr 23, 2008 8:14 PM GMT
    I vote for numb, specifically over exposed to news by cable news channels. Furthermore, the education system in the US is perhaps failing students in terms of teaching history, current events and critical thinking. It is hard to accuse someone of being dumb when their brains have never been challenged.

    Also, the major news networks will focus on what will draw viewers in, not what is newsworthy. This type of news might be considered a turn off to viewers. Instead they fill us up with the latest medical study on Cancer or what Obama said, or Hillary said.

    I guess I was a bit odd (geek) in that I started watching the CBS Evening News with Walter Cronkite when I was 7. Just me and my parents every weeknight at 6:30 PM. I have always been interested in current events. Now if I watch news at all it is the BBC World News at 6 PM, and PBS at 6:30 PM. I read "The Economist" magazine for more in-depth coverage of issues like torture and rendition by the US.
  • HndsmKansan

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    Apr 23, 2008 8:18 PM GMT
    Hey Dad,
    I think there are several reasons for this behavior, but I'll mention the one I think accounts for most of the silence:

    Many Americans may feel they are unpatriotic if they speak out against torture.. or somehow they are not being as patriotic as what is accepted based on 9/11 and terrorism. We've seen it at the top levels.. look at what happened to John Kerry last election in 2004 with the "Swift Boaters", the idea that Kerry could be malined in such a way based on his Vietnam record still amazes me.....icon_mad.gif
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    Apr 23, 2008 9:00 PM GMT
    The thing is that when this story did originally break, it was covered extensively in the media. The problem, as the NY Times has recently demonstrated, lies in part in the fact that the Bush administration has been so enormously good at ensuring their own propaganda gets on the air by employing former military personnel to act as "independent analysts" to the media.
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    Apr 23, 2008 9:02 PM GMT
    Chewey_Delt saidThe thing is that when this story did originally break, it was covered extensively in the media. The problem, as the NY Times has recently demonstrated, lies in part in the fact that the Bush administration has been so enormously good at ensuring their own propaganda gets on the air by employing former military personnel to act as "independent analysts" to the media.


    Is it my imagination or are Presidents doing this more often (using so-called experts as spin doctors)?
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    Apr 23, 2008 9:11 PM GMT
    Wysiwyg60 said

    Is it my imagination or are Presidents doing this more often (using so-called experts as spin doctors)?


    To some extent it's always been happening. Presidents have been using these kinds of folks for a long time. But not to the depth and extremes to which the Bush administration has done. Not only that, the Bush administration's use of these "experts" has been much, much more covert and sneaky than those of past presidents. It's really frightening to me how Orwellian this administration is.
  • jarhead5536

    Posts: 1348

    Apr 23, 2008 9:35 PM GMT
    I vote dumb. We get the leadership we deserve, clearly.
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    Apr 23, 2008 9:40 PM GMT
    I vote numb.

    I don't think the average American really understands the world around them and doesn't even want to. We'd rather live inside our own red or blue bubble.
  • jarhead5536

    Posts: 1348

    Apr 23, 2008 9:52 PM GMT
    Trance23 saidI vote numb.

    I don't think the average American really understands the world around them and doesn't even want to. We'd rather live inside our own red or blue bubble.


    Your observation is correct, but I still classify willful ignorance about damned near everything as dumb. Anti-intellectualism is so in in America, isn't that hot?
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    Apr 23, 2008 9:58 PM GMT
    Yeah, it's dumb. But from what i've seen, people who do stand up against our unjust government usually get swatted down or wrongly punished so frequently that Americans are too scared to speak up.icon_cry.gif
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    Apr 23, 2008 10:08 PM GMT
    jarhead5536 said
    Your observation is correct, but I still classify willful ignorance about damned near everything as dumb. Anti-intellectualism is so in in America, isn't that hot?


    True, many people are dumb.

    Both words work I think. I say numb because we should know better, but most people are to concerned with daily life to bother. Were numb to the fact were so dumb lol icon_rolleyes.gif

    Well some people. Nobody here on RJ of course. Well except one guy with an unverified profile with white hair.
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    Apr 23, 2008 10:19 PM GMT
    If I had to choose between Numb and Dumb, I'd choose Numb. Only because intelligence among Modern Man is basically the same worldwide, lol

    Uneducated, Ignorant, Shallow, Fearful, Conformist, Elitist, Materialistic, Lazy, Over Worked, Burnt Out and suffering from a major Identity Crisis...YES!

    Our issues stem from our culture, not our politics. If we're to expect better choices to be made by the general public we need to get our cultural identity worked out. That's a nearly impossible task to do because we are so large and each region has it's own set of values. Expecting a single federal system to properly address the needs of the people is magical thinking.

    Bush has happened to us because we as a nation have forgotten what makes this nation great. We have placed greatness on our impact on the world as a "superpower". This is disastrous because absolute power corrupts absolutely. What makes us great is the fact that the founders of this country were focused on our internal strength based on our independence and ability to overcome great odds to come together as citizens and make this nation strong for ourselves, outside of our place in the world.

    It's no wonder the American people have no idea what to do about all this. Our core spirit is missing.
  • jarhead5536

    Posts: 1348

    Apr 23, 2008 10:25 PM GMT
    Devildog gets the "Best Answer of the Day" Prize. I would only add that Christian fundamentalism in all levels of government, from school boards to the White House, is a huge part of our disdain for knowledge and learning, which generally holds us back in all arenas.
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    Apr 23, 2008 11:12 PM GMT
    Both? *shrug*
  • roadbikeRob

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    Apr 24, 2008 12:07 AM GMT
    It is a combination of dumb and numb. Americans have been hit with so much bad news from the media that it just numbs them to accept these wrongful events as a part of everyday life. They are dumb because they either don't vote or do not pay any serious attention to the political candidates background or prior performance if it is an incumbent.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14372

    Apr 24, 2008 12:14 AM GMT
    This same question should be applied to the democratic voters in Pennsylvania yesterday when they made the dumb move of voting for Hillary Clinton. They are dumb because they fell for her empty promises and hyperbole. Pennsylvania democrats do not fully realize that Hillary Clinton is nothing more than an opportunist and a bullshit artist.
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    Apr 24, 2008 12:15 AM GMT
    roadbikeRob saidThis same question should be applied to the democratic voters in Pennsylvania yesterday when they made the dumb move of voting for Hillary Clinton. They are dumb because they fell for her empty promises and hyperbole. Pennsylvania democrats do not fully realize that Hillary Clinton is nothing more than an opportunist and a bullshit artist.


    Really? We're now calling any voter who doesn't like the candidate that we like dumb now?

    I smell conceit. And it stinks.
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    Apr 24, 2008 12:16 AM GMT
    You're telling me!

    Hilary's commercial suck ASS the way they're all designed only to make Obama look bad.

    Fear mongering indeed.icon_neutral.gif
  • roadbikeRob

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    Apr 24, 2008 12:39 AM GMT
    There is no conceit here. It is a good example of Americans being dumb and making poor choices. Most of the democrats in Pennsylvania that voted for that opportunist bimbo were blue collar whites that usually have no more than a high school diploma or are high school dropouts. That says alot about several democratic voters in the Keystone State. Obviously their elevators do not make it quite to the top. This is an outstanding example of Americans who are dumb.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 24, 2008 12:42 AM GMT
    You're over 200 pounds and wearing spandex.
    You have no right to question anyone else's intelligence.
    icon_biggrin.gif
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14372

    Apr 24, 2008 12:58 AM GMT
    Pierrecadot,
    For your information, I have dropped my weight to 195 lbs. Furthermore what relevance does that have to this important discussion? I have every right in the world to criticize anything so shut up and stick to the relevant topic in this discussion.
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    Apr 24, 2008 1:03 AM GMT
    It seems most of us feel the same to a large degree, I just ran accross another article about ongoing efforts by several Law/constitutional watchdog agencies, and congressional committee efforts to get information from the CIA, who by the way seem to be just as intent on avoiding handing over their secrets. its titled "CIA ACKNOWLEDGES IT HAS MORE THAN 7000 DOCUMENTS RELATING TO SECRET DETENTION PROGRAM, RENDITION, AND TORTURE" ----at ---- http://www.commondreams.org/news2008/0423-06.htm ------ Check it out !!!!
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    Apr 24, 2008 1:16 AM GMT
    roadbikeRob saidThere is no conceit here. It is a good example of Americans being dumb and making poor choices. Most of the democrats in Pennsylvania that voted for that opportunist bimbo were blue collar whites that usually have no more than a high school diploma or are high school dropouts. That says alot about several democratic voters in the Keystone State. Obviously their elevators do not make it quite to the top. This is an outstanding example of Americans who are dumb.


    So, conceited and sexist I see.

    The conceit here is the assumption that because you've picked a candidate, that clearly anyone who disagrees with your pick must certainly be dumb, because you obviously have better powers of perception and logic than anyone else. Also, your particular values and concerns outweigh everybody else's.

    I don't see how you can't see just how conceited and self-righteous your statements are. It's this kind of post that fuels the image of Obama and Obama supporters as elitist pricks who denigrate blue collar folk at every opportunity.

    I've met many a person of the type you've just mentioned whose "elevators do not make it quite to the top" that could teach you a whole lot about humility.
  • darkeyedresol...

    Posts: 171

    Apr 24, 2008 1:25 AM GMT
    I think it has to do more with people have bigger concerns to deal with than toture during wartime, the issue itself is complicated and distant from the lives of everyday Americans.

    With rising food and gas prices, people are focusing much more domestically and more narrowly. Most Americans don't care about politics, which could be a sense of numbness about it. Like most everyone, we only really care about issues that effect us directly.

    I think most people have heard so much about Bush Administration and toture that it has lost its effect. The President gets a large benefit of the doubt, most people would like to believe that what he is doing is for the best of the country.
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    Apr 24, 2008 1:38 AM GMT
    I vote for numb and dumb. We are so oversaturated with news media, almost to the point where we no longer know what's important. We have too many outlets with not enough scope controlled by too few parties. The fluff from pop news shows like Extra and Entertainment Tonight are now part of the regular network news - blurring the lines between what's real news and entertainment. It would seem to be what most people want. When I want world news I usually turn to the BBC or NPR.
    In this environment, it's easy to see how the President continues to get away more scandels than the Clinton administration ever did and at such extreme cost to our economy and national security.