Wealthy Britons prepare to flee

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    Jul 18, 2011 12:50 PM GMT
    Interestingly, the US is considered low tax compared to the UK? I suppose that is dependent on the tax breaks you can get there. This is however a reminder that you can only pretend that you can just tax "the rich" so much before they decide to leave which is particularly problematic as they are generally also the most productive members of society - at least the high income earners are.

    http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/259399/259399

    More than half of the UK's millionaires have fled or are thinking of fleeing the country's economic "storm clouds", according to a new study.
    Taxation, perceived better living standards abroad and the weather mean that only 44% are certain of remaining here.

    But the survey of more than 500 UK-based millionaires, carried out for investment firm Skandia, found that only 2% were thinking of moving to a tax haven such as Switzerland or the Cayman Islands.

    Preferred destinations were France, the USA, Spain and Australia.


    Also somewhat relevant:
    infidelity.jpg
    "Canadian corporate taxes will do more to fight socialism in the US than the Tea Party ever will." Though this is also somewhat less straightforward than presented given that it doesn't include provincial tax rates (though the US version doesn't include state taxes) and tax deductions given that almost no one pays the statutory rate anywhere.
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    Jul 18, 2011 12:57 PM GMT
    They should be hung for treason after abandoning their country in its time of need, particularly since the "austerity" measures overwhelmingly impact the poor and middle class.
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    Jul 18, 2011 1:03 PM GMT
    Christian73 saidThey should be hung for treason after abandoning their country in its time of need, particularly since the "austerity" measures overwhelmingly impact the poor and middle class.


    Right... and I'm the one who is grasping? It is surprising that you continue to believe that wealth is simply a function of redistribution despite the mountains of evidence to the contrary - but in order to have your world view I suppose it is necessary.
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    Jul 18, 2011 1:29 PM GMT
    riddler78 said
    Christian73 saidThey should be hung for treason after abandoning their country in its time of need, particularly since the "austerity" measures overwhelmingly impact the poor and middle class.


    Right... and I'm the one who is grasping? It is surprising that you continue to believe that wealth is simply a function of redistribution despite the mountains of evidence to the contrary - but in order to have your world view I suppose it is necessary.


    I never said wealth is a "function of redistribution." All that is being asked is that those who have benefited disproportionately from the government(s) where they conduct business (in terms of infrastructure, military spending, educated workforce, etc.) contribute an equal amount back to the coffers. icon_rolleyes.gif

    Anything less is unpatriotic and immoral.
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    Jul 18, 2011 1:34 PM GMT
    Christian73 said
    riddler78 said
    Christian73 saidThey should be hung for treason after abandoning their country in its time of need, particularly since the "austerity" measures overwhelmingly impact the poor and middle class.


    Right... and I'm the one who is grasping? It is surprising that you continue to believe that wealth is simply a function of redistribution despite the mountains of evidence to the contrary - but in order to have your world view I suppose it is necessary.


    I never said wealth is a "function of redistribution." All that is being asked is that those who have benefited disproportionately from the government(s) where they conduct business (in terms of infrastructure, military spending, educated workforce, etc.) contribute an equal amount back to the coffers. icon_rolleyes.gif

    Anything less is unpatriotic and immoral.


    So is it immoral when those who have the opportunity to benefit from that same infrastructure do not actually exercise or attempt to do so? And/or are poor stewards of resources that they are given? Is that equally unpatriotic and immoral?

    What is moral and patriotic about taxing those who are good stewards of resources even more?
  • kew1

    Posts: 1595

    Jul 18, 2011 1:45 PM GMT
    Well Spain & France aren't exactly low tax & they were 2 of the preferred countries, whilst tax havens weren't.
    "Taxation, perceived better living standards abroad and the weather " -suggest it's the better standard of living/weather that're the deciding factors rather than taxes - in some parts of Spain the top rate is 49%
    http://spain.angloinfo.com/money/income-tax/
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    Jul 18, 2011 1:54 PM GMT
    riddler78 saidInterestingly, the US is considered low tax compared to the UK? I suppose that is dependent on the tax breaks you can get there. This is however a reminder that you can only pretend that you can just tax "the rich" so much before they decide to leave which is particularly problematic as they are generally also the most productive members of society - at least the high income earners are.

    http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/259399/259399

    More than half of the UK's millionaires have fled or are thinking of fleeing the country's economic "storm clouds", according to a new study.
    Taxation, perceived better living standards abroad and the weather mean that only 44% are certain of remaining here.

    But the survey of more than 500 UK-based millionaires, carried out for investment firm Skandia, found that only 2% were thinking of moving to a tax haven such as Switzerland or the Cayman Islands.

    Preferred destinations were France, the USA, Spain and Australia.


    Also somewhat relevant:
    infidelity.jpg
    "Canadian corporate taxes will do more to fight socialism in the US than the Tea Party ever will." Though this is also somewhat less straightforward than presented given that it doesn't include provincial tax rates (though the US version doesn't include state taxes) and tax deductions given that almost no one pays the statutory rate anywhere.


    I would argue your point that the rich are the most productive. In many cases, they aren't the ones doing any actual work. Big paycheck doesnt mean big productivity. Also, are you including the trust fund people in your most productive category, because they don't do shit, and I know plenty of them. Why you defend their greed is beyond me.
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    Jul 18, 2011 1:56 PM GMT
    riddler78 said
    Christian73 said
    riddler78 said
    Christian73 saidThey should be hung for treason after abandoning their country in its time of need, particularly since the "austerity" measures overwhelmingly impact the poor and middle class.


    Right... and I'm the one who is grasping? It is surprising that you continue to believe that wealth is simply a function of redistribution despite the mountains of evidence to the contrary - but in order to have your world view I suppose it is necessary.


    I never said wealth is a "function of redistribution." All that is being asked is that those who have benefited disproportionately from the government(s) where they conduct business (in terms of infrastructure, military spending, educated workforce, etc.) contribute an equal amount back to the coffers. icon_rolleyes.gif

    Anything less is unpatriotic and immoral.


    So is it immoral when those who have the opportunity to benefit from that same infrastructure do not actually exercise or attempt to do so? And/or are poor stewards of resources that they are given? Is that equally unpatriotic and immoral?

    What is moral and patriotic about taxing those who are good stewards of resources even more?


    You can't compare the two... look at the US, the land of "opportunity..." college is unaffordable, public education sucks, healthcare is unaffordable. I guess according to your logic, those who can't afford opportunity are unpatriotic.
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    Jul 18, 2011 2:16 PM GMT
    But they have a backup plan! The next thing that should be done for the "public good" is to not let the rich leave! Force them to stay and pay the tax, it's our moral responsibility!
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    Jul 18, 2011 2:31 PM GMT
    [quote][cite]Brandon112586 said[/cite]
    riddler78 saidInterestingly, the US is considered low tax compared to the UK? I suppose that is dependent on the tax breaks you can get there. This is however a reminder that you can only pretend that you can just tax "the rich" so much before they decide to leave which is particularly problematic as they are generally also the most productive members of society - at least the high income earners are.

    http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/259399/259399

    More than half of the UK's millionaires have fled or are thinking of fleeing the country's economic "storm clouds", according to a new study.
    Taxation, perceived better living standards abroad and the weather mean that only 44% are certain of remaining here.

    But the survey of more than 500 UK-based millionaires, carried out for investment firm Skandia, found that only 2% were thinking of moving to a tax haven such as Switzerland or the Cayman Islands.

    Preferred destinations were France, the USA, Spain and Australia.


    Also somewhat relevant:
    infidelity.jpg
    "Canadian corporate taxes will do more to fight socialism in the US than the Tea Party ever will." Though this is also somewhat less straightforward than presented given that it doesn't include provincial tax rates (though the US version doesn't include state taxes) and tax deductions given that almost no one pays the statutory rate anywhere.


    I would argue your point that the rich are the most productive. In many cases, they aren't the ones doing any actual work. Big paycheck doesnt mean big productivity. Also, are you including the trust fund people in your most productive category, because they don't do shit, and I know plenty of them. Why you defend their greed is beyond me.[/quote]

    +1

    It is a myth that the rich work disproportionately harder and take more risks than the general public. Many rich individuals benefitted from an unlevel playing field or utilized unscrupulous means to gain their wealth. They will deny it at all costs, but its true.

    The hardest workers in our society often get paid the least for their efforts. Place the rich picking grapes with migrant workers or building homes/roofs in the 110 degree mid summer heat and see how long they last. LOL.
  • rnch

    Posts: 11524

    Jul 18, 2011 2:37 PM GMT
    hasn't this been going on in GB since the late 1960's?



    icon_confused.gif
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    Jul 18, 2011 2:37 PM GMT
    catfish5 said[quote][cite]Brandon112586 said[/cite]
    riddler78 saidInterestingly, the US is considered low tax compared to the UK? I suppose that is dependent on the tax breaks you can get there. This is however a reminder that you can only pretend that you can just tax "the rich" so much before they decide to leave which is particularly problematic as they are generally also the most productive members of society - at least the high income earners are.

    http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/259399/259399

    More than half of the UK's millionaires have fled or are thinking of fleeing the country's economic "storm clouds", according to a new study.
    Taxation, perceived better living standards abroad and the weather mean that only 44% are certain of remaining here.

    But the survey of more than 500 UK-based millionaires, carried out for investment firm Skandia, found that only 2% were thinking of moving to a tax haven such as Switzerland or the Cayman Islands.

    Preferred destinations were France, the USA, Spain and Australia.


    Also somewhat relevant:
    infidelity.jpg
    "Canadian corporate taxes will do more to fight socialism in the US than the Tea Party ever will." Though this is also somewhat less straightforward than presented given that it doesn't include provincial tax rates (though the US version doesn't include state taxes) and tax deductions given that almost no one pays the statutory rate anywhere.


    I would argue your point that the rich are the most productive. In many cases, they aren't the ones doing any actual work. Big paycheck doesnt mean big productivity. Also, are you including the trust fund people in your most productive category, because they don't do shit, and I know plenty of them. Why you defend their greed is beyond me.[/quote]

    +1

    It is a myth that the rich work disproportionately harder and take more risks than the general public. Many rich individuals benefitted from an unlevel playing field or utilized unscrupulous means to gain their wealth. They will deny it at all costs, but its true.

    The hardest workers in our society often get paid the least for their efforts. Place the rich picking grapes with migrant workers or building homes/roofs in the 110 degree mid summer heat and see how long they last. LOL.


    And just how do you propose that we create a "level" playing field?

    Did Mark Zuckerberg really have that much more of an "advantage" over other computer geeks when he had the ingenuity to think of a site like facebook?

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    Jul 18, 2011 2:39 PM GMT
    Ah yes, the British in Spain are an interesting group. They are one of the largest immigrant groups after Romanians, Moroccans, and South Americans. However, they are by far the wealthiest and most educated immigrant group. Most of them are rich-ass SOBs who buy some of the most impressive properties along the coasts of AndalucĂ­a. Now there are cities and towns with more British expats than native Spaniards!
  • rnch

    Posts: 11524

    Jul 18, 2011 2:45 PM GMT
    riddler78 saidInterestingly, the US is considered low tax compared to the UK.....



    more evidence that the rich in America are not paying their fair share of taxes.

    it's time to raise the tax rates on the rich in the USA!



    icon_idea.gif
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    Jul 18, 2011 3:32 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    Christian73 saidThey should be hung for treason after abandoning their country in its time of need, particularly since the "austerity" measures overwhelmingly impact the poor and middle class.



    Like Bono and U2, who recently reorganized outside of Ireland so that they can avoid paying taxes.


    Yes. Was someone on here defending Bono and U2? icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Jul 18, 2011 3:40 PM GMT
    mayBbignow saidSo is it immoral when those who have the opportunity to benefit from that same infrastructure do not actually exercise or attempt to do so?

    Are you actually saying that anyone has the chance to be rich as the wealthy under this?



    mocktwinkie said

    And just how do you propose that we create a "level" playing field?

    Did Mark Zuckerberg really have that much more of an "advantage" over other computer geeks when he had the ingenuity to think of a site like facebook?



    A good idea, a patent and well off parents



    Just to be sure Im not for really raising taxes but lower class blaming- icon_rolleyes.gif


    Anyone can have a good idea. Most people in this country have computers and can afford to come up with a basic website idea. I have no evidence that his parents were "well off". Whether they were or not, it doesn't take much money to create what he did -- he just had a vision and because of that he is the youngest billionaire. That's what the American dream is about, not trying to see how we can blame people who have become wealthy because of their own ingenuity but appreciating a system that allows someone to create that kind of destiny.
  • mustangd

    Posts: 434

    Jul 18, 2011 3:46 PM GMT
    Brandon112586 said
    riddler78 saidInterestingly, the US is considered low tax compared to the UK? I suppose that is dependent on the tax breaks you can get there. This is however a reminder that you can only pretend that you can just tax "the rich" so much before they decide to leave which is particularly problematic as they are generally also the most productive members of society - at least the high income earners are.

    http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/259399/259399

    More than half of the UK's millionaires have fled or are thinking of fleeing the country's economic "storm clouds", according to a new study.
    Taxation, perceived better living standards abroad and the weather mean that only 44% are certain of remaining here.

    But the survey of more than 500 UK-based millionaires, carried out for investment firm Skandia, found that only 2% were thinking of moving to a tax haven such as Switzerland or the Cayman Islands.

    Preferred destinations were France, the USA, Spain and Australia.


    Also somewhat relevant:
    infidelity.jpg
    "Canadian corporate taxes will do more to fight socialism in the US than the Tea Party ever will." Though this is also somewhat less straightforward than presented given that it doesn't include provincial tax rates (though the US version doesn't include state taxes) and tax deductions given that almost no one pays the statutory rate anywhere.


    I would argue your point that the rich are the most productive. In many cases, they aren't the ones doing any actual work. Big paycheck doesnt mean big productivity. Also, are you including the trust fund people in your most productive category, because they don't do shit, and I know plenty of them. Why you defend their greed is beyond me.



    rich people are more productive is an accepted benchmark? i would agree that there are some hardworking people who through their efforts achieve wealth, but, i would like to see a study of all rich people and see what percentage of them achieved wealth through true effort. many rich people inherit, many rich people inherit and use the money to make money, investing ( less and less in the U.S. ) many more rich people achieve a postion that allows them to manipulate the system to their advantage, think wall street. example, the person who worked for national city bank who manipulated oil futures and earned himself $100 million bonus check that he used to buy a castle in europe to store his art collection. my point? all of us paid more at the gas pump because of his manipulations, he didn't create anything, all he did was re-distribute wealth, from us, to national city and himself. thats being productive? i suppose if a persons definition of productivity is merely to generate profit, without regard to how it was generated....
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    Jul 18, 2011 3:54 PM GMT
    Hey guys, just here to say that Atlas Shrugged is a stupid fantasy for dipshits

    2011-04-20-atlas-shrugged-is-a-stupid-fa

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    Jul 18, 2011 4:08 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    rnch said
    riddler78 saidInterestingly, the US is considered low tax compared to the UK.....



    more evidence that the rich in America are not paying their fair share of taxes.

    it's time to raise the tax rates on the rich in the USA!



    icon_idea.gif




    By raising the tax rates on "the rich" how much revenue will that bring into the Federal government?



    More than it has now. Tax income is the lowest it's been in 60 years.
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    Jul 18, 2011 4:10 PM GMT
    mustangd saidIrich people are more productive is an accepted benchmark? i would agree that there are some hardworking people who through their efforts achieve wealth, but, i would like to see a study of all rich people and see what percentage of them achieved wealth through true effort. many rich people inherit, many rich people inherit and use the money to make money, investing ( less and less in the U.S. ) many more rich people achieve a postion that allows them to manipulate the system to their advantage, think wall street. example, the person who worked for national city bank who manipulated oil futures and earned himself $100 million bonus check that he used to buy a castle in europe to store his art collection. my point? all of us paid more at the gas pump because of his manipulations, he didn't create anything, all he did was re-distribute wealth, from us, to national city and himself. thats being productive? i suppose if a persons definition of productivity is merely to generate profit, without regard to how it was generated....


    Excellent points. The idea that hedge funds or financial services "create value" is ridiculous. Most of them move money around and game the system as you noted. They are basically vampires sucking wealth out of the system.
  • Roads2Abs

    Posts: 39

    Jul 18, 2011 4:17 PM GMT
    live in one country, stuff your money in another. done.
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    Jul 18, 2011 4:32 PM GMT
    Brandon112586 said
    riddler78 saidInterestingly, the US is considered low tax compared to the UK? I suppose that is dependent on the tax breaks you can get there. This is however a reminder that you can only pretend that you can just tax "the rich" so much before they decide to leave which is particularly problematic as they are generally also the most productive members of society - at least the high income earners are.

    http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/259399/259399

    More than half of the UK's millionaires have fled or are thinking of fleeing the country's economic "storm clouds", according to a new study.
    Taxation, perceived better living standards abroad and the weather mean that only 44% are certain of remaining here.

    But the survey of more than 500 UK-based millionaires, carried out for investment firm Skandia, found that only 2% were thinking of moving to a tax haven such as Switzerland or the Cayman Islands.

    Preferred destinations were France, the USA, Spain and Australia.


    Also somewhat relevant:
    infidelity.jpg
    "Canadian corporate taxes will do more to fight socialism in the US than the Tea Party ever will." Though this is also somewhat less straightforward than presented given that it doesn't include provincial tax rates (though the US version doesn't include state taxes) and tax deductions given that almost no one pays the statutory rate anywhere.


    I would argue your point that the rich are the most productive. In many cases, they aren't the ones doing any actual work. Big paycheck doesnt mean big productivity. Also, are you including the trust fund people in your most productive category, because they don't do shit, and I know plenty of them. Why you defend their greed is beyond me.


    Exactly, it's not the rich who are working 60+ hours a week a multiple jobs barely making it by.
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    Jul 18, 2011 4:34 PM GMT
    mocktwinkie said
    catfish5 said[quote][cite]Brandon112586 said[/cite]
    riddler78 saidInterestingly, the US is considered low tax compared to the UK? I suppose that is dependent on the tax breaks you can get there. This is however a reminder that you can only pretend that you can just tax "the rich" so much before they decide to leave which is particularly problematic as they are generally also the most productive members of society - at least the high income earners are.

    http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/259399/259399

    More than half of the UK's millionaires have fled or are thinking of fleeing the country's economic "storm clouds", according to a new study.
    Taxation, perceived better living standards abroad and the weather mean that only 44% are certain of remaining here.

    But the survey of more than 500 UK-based millionaires, carried out for investment firm Skandia, found that only 2% were thinking of moving to a tax haven such as Switzerland or the Cayman Islands.

    Preferred destinations were France, the USA, Spain and Australia.


    Also somewhat relevant:
    infidelity.jpg
    "Canadian corporate taxes will do more to fight socialism in the US than the Tea Party ever will." Though this is also somewhat less straightforward than presented given that it doesn't include provincial tax rates (though the US version doesn't include state taxes) and tax deductions given that almost no one pays the statutory rate anywhere.


    I would argue your point that the rich are the most productive. In many cases, they aren't the ones doing any actual work. Big paycheck doesnt mean big productivity. Also, are you including the trust fund people in your most productive category, because they don't do shit, and I know plenty of them. Why you defend their greed is beyond me.[/quote]

    +1

    It is a myth that the rich work disproportionately harder and take more risks than the general public. Many rich individuals benefitted from an unlevel playing field or utilized unscrupulous means to gain their wealth. They will deny it at all costs, but its true.

    The hardest workers in our society often get paid the least for their efforts. Place the rich picking grapes with migrant workers or building homes/roofs in the 110 degree mid summer heat and see how long they last. LOL.


    And just how do you propose that we create a "level" playing field?

    Did Mark Zuckerberg really have that much more of an "advantage" over other computer geeks when he had the ingenuity to think of a site like facebook?




    Uh yea...he's white, already well off, and could afford to get into college with no issues.
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    Jul 18, 2011 4:36 PM GMT
    Fountains saidHey guys, just here to say that Atlas Shrugged is a stupid fantasy for dipshits

    2011-04-20-atlas-shrugged-is-a-stupid-fa



    All Ayn Rand books have a distinct lack of.."less than perfect" citizens.
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    Jul 18, 2011 4:47 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 saidSo in other words, you haven't a clue. It's just a shot in the dark from you liberals every time you say "tax the rich!"


    The Bush tax cuts have cost us $3 trillion in the last 10 years, so repealing them would give us $3 trillion more over the next tens years.

    My point is it doesn't matter. We have big deficits and huge debt. In order to reverse course, we have to cut spending, eliminate fraud and abuse and raise taxes. It's a very simple formula that has worked every time we've done it.

    What doesn't work is to increase spending through two wars, a giveaway to Big Pharma and bailing out the banks, all while cutting or refusing to raise taxes.

    Math apparently has a liberal bias. icon_lol.gif