lgb....t?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 22, 2011 12:14 AM GMT
    I realize this probably isn't the best website to post a topic like this. But here goes.

    At the risk of offending people, I find it interesting how lesbians, gays, and bisexuals are grouped with transsexuals in the LGBT(QAxyzblahblahblah) phrase.

    I was talking about this with one of my friends today, and would really love to hear more opinions on this.

    Here is why we found it so intriguing: there are so many lesbians, gays, and bisexuals that are actively seeking to blur the gender lines/roles our society has created. Yet transsexuals seem to live by these lines. They want to be the extremes of these predefined norms (as crazy as it sounds, the more you think about it, the more it makes sense). An (of course stereotypical) MtF transsexual would (typically) want to have large breasts, long hair, be curvy, etc.. All of which are defining characteristics our society/culture has invented and whatnot.

    Any thoughts on this? Does anyone else see how the two groups are often focused on doing exactly opposite things?

    I haven't had much time to think about this/research this, so I'd truly love to hear what other people think about this.

  • brycetippe

    Posts: 688

    Jul 22, 2011 12:17 AM GMT
    Hm. Never thought of that before. Interesting.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 22, 2011 12:32 AM GMT
    I don't know that it's true that transsexuals necessarily want to push to the "extremes of predefined norms." Of course there are some transsexuals--and some gay guys who would never want to alter their gender--who want to embrace an exaggerated display of what it means to be feminine. And these people usually get more attention because they value the most outrageous symbols.

    But I have known several post-op trans people who have never displayed any kind of ultra-male or ultra-female characteristics. They really wanted to be taken for a comfortable, lifetime member of their adopted gender.

    And I think LGB gets lumped with T because in many cases politically, we're all saying, "don't impose rules on who we are and who we love." I don't regard my sexuality as a blurring of lines: I see it as my business and that of any guys I can attract, and it does not matter to me if it seems I am filling one kind of gender role or another.

    YMMV.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 22, 2011 12:40 AM GMT
    Kobaltjak said
    But I have known several post-op trans people who have never displayed any kind of ultra-male or ultra-female characteristics. They really wanted to be taken for a comfortable, lifetime member of their adopted gender.

    QFT.
    Most Transgender people you wouldn't recognize as such, which is their intent.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 22, 2011 12:42 AM GMT
    I've never really seen the similiarity to homosexuality. I just look at it as more of a medical thing that they somehow were born the wrong gender, and I don't think it does their cause any justice being lumped in with us.
    I don't consider homosexuality a medical condition.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 22, 2011 2:05 AM GMT
    I'm very confidently secure in my being a man, I'm not seeking to blur the lines in the slighteset or be percieved anywhere in the female spectrum...I just like to F*** other men

    Can I get a separate letter for that in the spectrum?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 22, 2011 2:12 AM GMT
    I think about this every time I see LGBT acronyms. My opinion will probably not be politically correct, but fuck it.... I see gender confusion to be quite different that homosexuality. I see transgenders as having a physical deformity that needs to be corrected by surgery. I really don't see the connection. And if fact, I think it has slowed down the gay rights cause. If blacks had included gays in their struggle, there's no way they would have gotten equal rights as quickly as they did.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 22, 2011 2:35 AM GMT
    bhp91126 said
    Kobaltjak said
    But I have known several post-op trans people who have never displayed any kind of ultra-male or ultra-female characteristics. They really wanted to be taken for a comfortable, lifetime member of their adopted gender.

    QFT.
    Most Transgender people you wouldn't recognize as such, which is their intent.


    Ah thanks. See I only know of one person who is going through the transition right now. My only other exposure has been out at clubs and on TV. So, I don't have as much exposure as I really would like. I like learning about / experiencing new types of people. Cuz at the end of the day, that's what we all are... people.

    I still don't necessarily see the link between gender confusion and romantic gender preference, though.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 22, 2011 2:37 AM GMT
    MsclDrew saidI'm very confidently secure in my being a man, I'm not seeking to blur the lines in the slighteset or be percieved anywhere in the female spectrum...I just like to F*** other men

    Can I get a separate letter for that in the spectrum?


    Ah but f*ing other men is not what our "society" has under 'male' characteristics.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 22, 2011 2:38 AM GMT
    Gender identity and sexual orientation are completely different things. That being said, I have no problem lumping transgendered people in with the gay, lesbian and bisexual community. We are all sexual minorities and are all discriminated against in one way or another. The transgenered community has been fighting along side everyone else for decades. It just seems wrong to me to discard them just as we're making strides in legal protections for the L and G portions of the acronym.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 22, 2011 2:57 AM GMT
    [/quote]Cuz at the end of the day, that's what we all are... people.

    I still don't necessarily see the link between gender confusion and romantic gender preference, though. [/quote]

    The largest part of the link is the way we all get lumped together in the minds of less thoughtful members of the general public. "You're gay? Then you really must want to be a woman."

    And some trans people find that their sexual orientation is fluid. A friend of mine, who was a lesbian when we met, is now a gay man. I think it would make my head hurt to have to re-imagine myself that way, but he seems to be really cool with who he is, and it's no skin off my back.

    So there's plenty of overlap and there has been as long as there has been any kind of political movement. Many of the people who were at the Stonewall Inn the night the riots began would be called trans today.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 22, 2011 3:03 AM GMT
    There aren't enough trannys to have their voices heard as they fight for equal rights and acceptance, so they're lumped in with the LGB crowd to have more fighting power since the LGB is "generally" more welcoming to them than the straight crowd.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 22, 2011 3:15 AM GMT
    We're lumped together because we're all "the other." If we're not hetrosexual gender-normative then we have some common ground with T, Q, and A.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 22, 2011 3:17 AM GMT
    Ermine saidWe're lumped together because we're all "the other." If we're not hetrosexual gender-normative then we have some common ground with T, Q, and A.
    You're lumped in with us cause you're sexy enough to hang out with the cool kids. icon_cool.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 22, 2011 3:20 AM GMT
    I've never met a tranny that wasn't bat shit crazy! Just sayin..... icon_neutral.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 22, 2011 3:24 AM GMT
    It's all beautiful in the rainbow.

    Today, a woman came out of a "one occupant" restroom marked "Women". I was about to enter when she said to me, "This is for women."

    I said, "Oh, ok." And proceeded to use the restroom.

    I thought, "We're in San Francisco. How dare you discriminate against me because of my gender! Besides, I have to pee!"

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 22, 2011 3:24 AM GMT
    What scares you more.......clowns or trannies? icon_lol.gif
  • BardBear

    Posts: 533

    Jul 22, 2011 3:24 AM GMT
    I tend to agree with scruffypup. Gender identity does have a concept that homosexuality doesn't have. We like being men who like men. We are sure how we identify ourselves.

    However, oppression is oppression in any form, and I'm all for making allies wherever possible. There isn't any doubt there.

    Peace,
    Bardy
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 22, 2011 3:25 AM GMT
    paulflexes saidThere aren't enough trannys to have their voices heard as they fight for equal rights and acceptance, so they're lumped in with the LGB crowd to have more fighting power since the LGB is "generally" more welcoming to them than the straight crowd.


    Alledgedly...
    Please we still have yet to accept people of different races, status and weights. icon_rolleyes.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 22, 2011 3:29 AM GMT
    I once read an essay after finishing a Race, Gender, Sexuality and Power class last semester. The essay was sort of a rant by a trans person about feminism and it's "gender as a social construct" theory. The author of this essay was basically saying that he/she does not believe that gender is a social construct because of his/her internal feelings and that the very fact that he/she can have these feelings shows that gender is real (regardless of which biological body you're in). It was a really interesting read and I cannot for the life of me find this essay. I'm sure you would find it to be very interesting as well.

    I feel that a large part of masculine/feminine genders is socially constructed. I do see where you are coming from, however. The basic idea of being "trans" is founded upon the idea that gender is real. Take, for example, a woman who was born in a man's body. She identifies as a woman because she feels that being a "woman" means having certain characteristics and behaving in certain ways (whatever that may mean). These characteristics and behaviours probably seem real and basic to her. "Gender as a social construct" becomes a bit problematic when you factor in "trans" people. But the problems ultimately lie behind this requirement to categorise every fucking person into narrow, socially constructed groups.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 22, 2011 3:29 AM GMT
    I thought the "t" stood for totally awesome.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 22, 2011 3:29 AM GMT
    GigoloAssassin said
    paulflexes saidThere aren't enough trannys to have their voices heard as they fight for equal rights and acceptance, so they're lumped in with the LGB crowd to have more fighting power since the LGB is "generally" more welcoming to them than the straight crowd.


    Alledgedly...
    Please we still have yet to accept people of different races, status and weights. icon_rolleyes.gif
    Oh fuck that! If they're not white, rich, and ripped, they should have all their rights stripped from them and deported to Cuba or something. icon_razz.gif

    /sarcasm
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 22, 2011 3:31 AM GMT
    wrestlervic saidI thought the "t" stood for totally awesome.


    It can totally be that, too icon_smile.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 22, 2011 3:36 AM GMT
    wrestlervic saidI thought the "t" stood for totally awesome.


    I take that back, it stands for transcendentalist. Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transcendentalist.

    ...or until I can think of something funnier.

    Tuperwarer-er!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Jul 22, 2011 3:37 AM GMT
    We all have a common denominator - We are sexual minorities.