Responsibility for debt talks shifts to Congress, away from Obama

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 24, 2011 5:34 AM GMT
    An interesting development.

    http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/173123-another-tense-meeting-at-the-white-house-as-clock-ticks-toward-default

    "The President wanted to know that there was a plan for preventing national default," McConnell said in a statement released after the meeting. "The bipartisan leadership in Congress is committed to working on new legislation that will prevent default while substantially reducing Washington spending."

    The Speaker told his colleagues that any deal will be a product of congressional leadership - not a compromise struck with the White House, the Republican source said, noting that "strategically not working with the president, but with the Senate could be better for him."

    Boehner was backed up by Democratic leaders Reid and Pelosi, when he said to Obama, "Mr. President, I need to deal with the House and the Senate because we [the White House and Congress] aren't getting anywhere," the source said.

    The White House didn't fight to be a remain a part of the debate of spending cuts, and entitlement and tax reform but Carney said in the statement: "Congress should refrain from playing reckless political games with our economy."


    There's also this: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/23/boehner-obama-bluff-short-term-debt-ceiling-deal_n_907850.html

    and this: http://mercatus.org/publication/federal-spending-perspective
    federal-spending-in-perspective-chart-JP
  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Jul 24, 2011 7:00 AM GMT
    WELL, GEE, SINCE IT'S CONGRESS' RESPONSIBILITY TO RAISE THE DEBT CEILING ( NOT THE PRESIDENT'S), THAT WOULD BE A VERY GOOD PLACE TO SHIFT THE RESPONSIBILITY.
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    Jul 24, 2011 9:31 AM GMT
    It's actually the Democrats who have been playing politics. The income tax rate had been negotiated last December to be good for two years. It did not need to be revisited now, but the Democrats wanted to renege on those negotiations because: 1) many didn't like that outcome, and 2) they want to try to shield Obama from the issue leading up to the election. It is also possible the Democrats never negotiated that deal in good faith, always intending to unravel it during debt ceiling negotiations.

    Fact is, if the Democrats had not been insisting on revisiting something previously negotiated, the debt ceiling issue would have long been resolved. Although the media has been actively serving the White House, spinning the Republicans as obstructionists, the truth will ultimately be known. While Congress will take a hit, the lack of leadership shown by the White House will further erode Obama's poll numbers.
  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Jul 24, 2011 11:50 AM GMT
    That's exactly the metaphor that's to be used here
    The republicans are playing Russian
    Roulette here
    They have a gun to our heads

    ............ And the really sad thing is
    That they are SO clueless ....is that everybody but them knows if the gun is loaded or not
  • rnch

    Posts: 11524

    Jul 24, 2011 11:59 AM GMT
    Webster666 saidWELL, GEE, SINCE IT'S CONGRESS' RESPONSIBILITY TO RAISE THE DEBT CEILING ( NOT THE PRESIDENT'S), THAT WOULD BE A VERY GOOD PLACE TO SHIFT THE RESPONSIBILITY.




    Q F T icon_exclaim.gif




    talk about a "DO NOTHING" congress....



    icon_rolleyes.gif



    icon_mad.gif
  • rnch

    Posts: 11524

    Jul 24, 2011 2:58 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    Webster666 saidWELL, GEE, SINCE IT'S CONGRESS' RESPONSIBILITY TO RAISE THE DEBT CEILING ( NOT THE PRESIDENT'S), THAT WOULD BE A VERY GOOD PLACE TO SHIFT THE RESPONSIBILITY.



    YES, AND WHY THEY EVEN INVOLVED OBAMA IN THE FIRST PLACE MAKES NO SENSE.




    congress TRIED to involve the President so they could have someone to blame for their inaction and their immature, childish, macho, destructive behavior.


    icon_rolleyes.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 24, 2011 3:11 PM GMT
    socalfitness saidIt's actually the Democrats who have been playing politics. The income tax rate had been negotiated last December to be good for two years. It did not need to be revisited now, but the Democrats wanted to renege on those negotiations because: 1) many didn't like that outcome, and 2) they want to try to shield Obama from the issue leading up to the election. It is also possible the Democrats never negotiated that deal in good faith, always intending to unravel it during debt ceiling negotiations.

    Fact is, if the Democrats had not been insisting on revisiting something previously negotiated, the debt ceiling issue would have long been resolved. Although the media has been actively serving the White House, spinning the Republicans as obstructionists, the truth will ultimately be known. While Congress will take a hit, the lack of leadership shown by the White House will further erode Obama's poll numbers.


    Absolutely. The meme that the Democrats hope will carry is that it is the Republicans who have dragged things out but the reality is that it is the Obama Administration - and I think this is a theme that is already emerging.

    His performance supported the Republican view that he "was not the adult in the room". And his attempts to push things to the brink appears to be a pattern. Given that the Republicans have at least proposed (and passed in the House) a shorter term deadline shows how weak the Administration position is. You already see the parroting of the "obstructionist", "Party of NO" line here but people aren't stupid and can see this is a lie.

    What was thought to be a win/win for Obama is looking more like a lose/lose. He will own the default if it happens, and if it doesn't and he caves, it will reinforce the meme that he has been a weak President as people look to his record.
  • rnch

    Posts: 11524

    Jul 24, 2011 3:11 PM GMT
    [quote][cite]southbeach1500 said...Obama - the great one himself - said he would be meeting with Congressional leaders every day until there was an agreement. Obama inserted himself into the process.

    [/quote]

    yeh, congress was doing such a great job solving this problem on their own!


    icon_rolleyes.gif

    obviously these postuering, posing slackers in congress need guidance. they sure as hale can't do anything on their own.


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  • rnch

    Posts: 11524

    Jul 24, 2011 3:15 PM GMT
    [quote][cite]southbeach1500 said...Yep, the House is doing fine. They've actually even passed a budget this year... somethings the Democrats didn't bother doing for the past 2 years.[/quote]


    jane, even you know that proposed budget plan was totally "unworkable"..even you aren't that ignorant?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 24, 2011 4:26 PM GMT
    riddler78 saidAbsolutely. The meme that the Democrats hope will carry is that it is the Republicans who have dragged things out but the reality is that it is the Obama Administration - and I think this is a theme that is already emerging.

    His performance supported the Republican view that he "was not the adult in the room". And his attempts to push things to the brink appears to be a pattern. Given that the Republicans have at least proposed (and passed in the House) a shorter term deadline shows how weak the Administration position is. You already see the parroting of the "obstructionist", "Party of NO" line here but people aren't stupid and can see this is a lie.

    What was thought to be a win/win for Obama is looking more like a lose/lose. He will own the default if it happens, and if it doesn't and he caves, it will reinforce the meme that he has been a weak President as people look to his record.


    Does US news get translated into some weird parallel universe in Canada?

    The Republicans have dragged things out. In fact, they have completely created the artificial debt ceiling "crisis" by not pro forma voting for the increase, and - once again - using it to create a hostage situation so they can attack programs that Americans do not want gutted.

    And the Republicans intransigence and obstructionism is well-documented by their unprecedented use of the filibuster and secrete holds.

    Polls steadily show that the American people blame the Republicans for the entire financial mess we're in, including the current "crisis."
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    Jul 24, 2011 4:41 PM GMT
    Christian73 said
    riddler78 saidAbsolutely. The meme that the Democrats hope will carry is that it is the Republicans who have dragged things out but the reality is that it is the Obama Administration - and I think this is a theme that is already emerging.

    His performance supported the Republican view that he "was not the adult in the room". And his attempts to push things to the brink appears to be a pattern. Given that the Republicans have at least proposed (and passed in the House) a shorter term deadline shows how weak the Administration position is. You already see the parroting of the "obstructionist", "Party of NO" line here but people aren't stupid and can see this is a lie.

    What was thought to be a win/win for Obama is looking more like a lose/lose. He will own the default if it happens, and if it doesn't and he caves, it will reinforce the meme that he has been a weak President as people look to his record.


    Does US news get translated into some weird parallel universe in Canada?

    The Republicans have dragged things out. In fact, they have completely created the artificial debt ceiling "crisis" by not pro forma voting for the increase, and - once again - using it to create a hostage situation so they can attack programs that Americans do not want gutted.

    And the Republicans intransigence and obstructionism is well-documented by their unprecedented use of the filibuster and secrete holds.

    Polls steadily show that the American people blame the Republicans for the entire financial mess we're in, including the current "crisis."

    Noticed you completely avoided the point I made that Riddler was responding to. Jury still out on how the debt discussions will be seen some time in the future. The poll numbers for an incumbent's handling of the economy speak for themselves, however.
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    Jul 24, 2011 4:46 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    Christian73 said
    The Republicans have dragged things out. In fact, they have completely created the artificial debt ceiling "crisis"


    Incorrect. Obama-Reid-Pelosi in the past 30 months have added approximately $4 trillion to the debt. It took Bush almost 8 years to do that.

    In other words, the Democrats ran wild with spending and maxed out the credit card far sooner than it should have been maxed out - and they want to be able to continue their insane out of control spending.


    Either you're stupid or willfully ignorant. The vast majority of the deficits are from Bush-era policies, some of which Obama and the Dems tried to repeal (tax cuts), others that will be dealt with when HCR takes effect (Medicare Part D), and the remainder of which they are trying to clean up (Iraq and Afghanistan). Add to that the financial crisis, resulting recession, and loss of tax revenue from same, and you've got your deficits. icon_rolleyes.gif
  • rnch

    Posts: 11524

    Jul 24, 2011 4:54 PM GMT
    Christian73 said...Either you're stupid or willfully ignorant....



    perhaps both icon_question.gif





    icon_lol.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 24, 2011 10:10 PM GMT
    rnch said
    Christian73 said...Either you're stupid or willfully ignorant....



    perhaps both icon_question.gif





    icon_lol.gif


    Irony.
  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Jul 25, 2011 5:55 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    Christian73 said
    Either you're stupid or willfully ignorant. The vast majority of the deficits are from Bush-era policies, some of which Obama and the Dems tried to repeal (tax cuts), others that will be dealt with when HCR takes effect (Medicare Part D), and the remainder of which they are trying to clean up (Iraq and Afghanistan). Add to that the financial crisis, resulting recession, and loss of tax revenue from same, and you've got your deficits. icon_rolleyes.gif



    2008 Federal Spending $3.0 trillion
    2009 Federal Spending $3.5 trillion
    2010 Federal Spending $3.6 trillion
    2011 Federal Spending $3.8 trillion

    Obama-Pelosi-Reid have increased spending by 25%.


    The reason the deficit has exploded in the past 2 years is that Obama-Pelosi-Reid have increased government spending by 25%, their economic program has been a disaster resulting in less people having a job and thus a shrinking of the tax base.

    Yes, it is an almost impossible concept for liberals to grasp, I do admit that.





    Yeh, the George W. Bush experiment was a very costly undertaking. We'll likely be paying for it for the rest of our lives.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 25, 2011 11:52 AM GMT
    Webster666 said
    southbeach1500 said
    Christian73 said
    Either you're stupid or willfully ignorant. The vast majority of the deficits are from Bush-era policies, some of which Obama and the Dems tried to repeal (tax cuts), others that will be dealt with when HCR takes effect (Medicare Part D), and the remainder of which they are trying to clean up (Iraq and Afghanistan). Add to that the financial crisis, resulting recession, and loss of tax revenue from same, and you've got your deficits. icon_rolleyes.gif



    2008 Federal Spending $3.0 trillion
    2009 Federal Spending $3.5 trillion
    2010 Federal Spending $3.6 trillion
    2011 Federal Spending $3.8 trillion

    Obama-Pelosi-Reid have increased spending by 25%.


    The reason the deficit has exploded in the past 2 years is that Obama-Pelosi-Reid have increased government spending by 25%, their economic program has been a disaster resulting in less people having a job and thus a shrinking of the tax base.

    Yes, it is an almost impossible concept for liberals to grasp, I do admit that.





    Yeh, the George W. Bush experiment was a very costly undertaking. We'll likely be paying for it for the rest of our lives.


    Yep, for sure - I believe I've forgotten, what years were the Bush Administration precisely? When did the Obama Administration start?

    wapoobamabudget1.jpg
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 25, 2011 12:20 PM GMT
    So as it turns out, Obama is concerned more about re-election than the possibility of US default on the debt:

    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_DEBT_SHOWDOWN_DALEY?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2011-07-24-09-44-31

    Daley was asked on NBC's "Meet the Press" if Obama would veto a plan that doesn't extend the limit into 2013, and Daley said: "Yes."


    My guess is that both the Congress and the Senate will call his bluff and make him be the one to choose to default. Yes it's cynical by both Republicans and Democrats, but in every respect, it is the Obama Administration that pushed this to the wire. Negotiations could have started long ago.
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    Jul 25, 2011 12:38 PM GMT
    riddler78 saidSo as it turns out, Obama is concerned more about re-election than the possibility of US default on the debt: ...

    My message and your response earlier in this thread made it quite obvious that it has been the Democrats who have been playing politics. Hopefully after the next election when the progressive wing loses favor to the moderates, the Democratic party will again become mainstream.
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    Jul 25, 2011 1:24 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    riddler78 saidSo as it turns out, Obama is concerned more about re-election than the possibility of US default on the debt: ...

    My message and your response earlier in this thread made it quite obvious that it has been the Democrats who have been playing politics. Hopefully after the next election when the progressive wing loses favor to the moderates, the Democratic party will again become mainstream.


    So as it turns out, it was in fact Obama who changed the parameters of the negotiations and that is why Boehner "walked out".

    http://www.politico.com/playbook/
    At the Roosevelt Room briefing, a White House official cast it differently: “In tax reform, we were apart by $400 billion. We’d agreed to set a level of a target for tax reform that would be $800 billion above the level that it would be if the Bush tax cuts were extended. We said on top of that, we thought it was appropriate — given the scale of savings in so many important entitlement and discretionary areas — that balance required that there be a little more, and we said $400 billion more was something that we thought was appropriate.


    It is now apparent that the ones who have brought the US to the brink are not the Republicans. And now there are leaks that suggest that Obama rejected a two part deal negotiated in the Senate and Congress last night.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 25, 2011 1:43 PM GMT
    riddler78 said...It is now apparent that the ones who have brought the US to the brink are not the Republicans. And now there are leaks that suggest that Obama rejected a two part deal negotiated in the Senate and Congress last night.

    Boehner said Obama needs to stop worrying about his reelection and start worrying about the country. This story will gain traction, and I think Obama may soon be toast.

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/07/25/reid-boehner-offer-competing-plans-to-cut-spending-raise-debt-ceiling/

    ...The aide said Boehner and Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell were in agreement with Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid on the "general framework" for a two-stage plan. Under that framework, Congress would approve a short-term debt-ceiling increase alongside spending cuts greater than the debt increase, and would consider another debt-ceiling hike later on after a committee identifies "long-term savings."

    However, the aide said, "the president said 'no'" when Reid presented the plan to him. ...