CPAC bans GoProud from Participating

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    Jul 30, 2011 6:26 PM GMT
    There is going to be hell to pay for this. I'm pretty sure WND has a lot to do with it as well. There has been a small surge lately of religious conservatives wanting to take the Republican party backwards, and if they continue to take this position they will risk alienating an entire generation of would-be conservative youth who are overwhelmingly in favor of a more libertarian position on gay rights and equality.

    CPAC over the years has become more libertarian, and we will probably see a big backlash over this blatant bigotry.

    I would encourage any gay person who identifies as a conservative or libertarian to write to CPAC expressing your outrage and disapproval.

  • creature

    Posts: 5197

    Jul 30, 2011 7:35 PM GMT
    uMOid.gif
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    Jul 30, 2011 7:43 PM GMT
    (snort.)
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 30, 2011 8:07 PM GMT
    creature saiduMOid.gif


    Why would you be happy about something like this? You're despicable.
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    Jul 30, 2011 8:12 PM GMT
    No surprise.
    The Repubs feigned some acceptance of gay Americans during their low point after Obama got elected and the Dems controlled the White House and the Congress.
    The Repubs tried desperately to fool some gays into voting Repub in 2010 by pretending to be more accepting of gay Americans.

    Now the truth comes back out,
    The Repubs just don't like gay people and don't support equal rights for gay Americans.

    Don't you gays who voted Repub feel cheap dirty and used?
    The Repubs screwed you and left you when they didn't need you any more.
    Like a cheap whore.
    Except the Repubs like cheap whores a lot better than they like gay guys.

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    Jul 30, 2011 8:46 PM GMT
    Both parties have their factions. And those on the left can laugh all they want, but the point is this: If the moderate Democrats were not so marginalized by the far left zealots, then those of us who are moderate could go with or threaten to go with the Democrats, as a balance within the Republican Party to the zealots on the right. But as long as the Democrats are in effect representing the party of Obama and Pelosi, you won't get moderate support, and we have less leverage against the zealots on the right.
  • creature

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    Jul 30, 2011 8:46 PM GMT
    mocktwinkie said
    creature saiduMOid.gif


    Why would you be happy about something like this? You're despicable.


    Despicable? You act as if I had said "oh the joys of multiculturalism" after hearing about a bombing in Norway.

    Oh wait a minute...
  • creature

    Posts: 5197

    Jul 30, 2011 8:48 PM GMT
    Your belief that there has only been a small surge of religious conservatism occurring lately (just lately?) speaks volumes about your ignorance of what has been happening in America.

    You have a lot of growing up to do.
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    Jul 30, 2011 8:50 PM GMT
    socalfitness saidBoth parties have their factions. And those on the left can laugh all they want, but the point is this: If the moderate Democrats were not so marginalized by the far left zealots, then those of us who are moderate could go with or threaten to go with the Democrats, as a balance within the Republican Party to the zealots on the right. But as long as the Democrats are in effect representing the party of Obama and Pelosi, you won't get moderate support, and we have less leverage against the zealots on the right.


    I'm afraid that there really aren't any far left Democrats. The most left-leaning of all of them are equivalent to the European Center (and sometimes the right).

    American politics these days is a choice between the moderately conservative and the extreme authoritarians. This is why the political class is absolutely incapable of solving the countries problems.
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    Jul 30, 2011 8:51 PM GMT
    socalfitness saidBoth parties have their factions. And those on the left can laugh all they want, but the point is this: If the moderate Democrats were not so marginalized by the far left zealots, then those of us who are moderate could go with or threaten to go with the Democrats, as a balance within the Republican Party to the zealots on the right. But as long as the Democrats are in effect representing the party of Obama and Pelosi, you won't get moderate support, and we have less leverage against the zealots on the right.






    LOL!
    More delusion from socal.

    As the debt ceiling debate has so clearly proven, it's the REPUB party that's controlled by the most radical elements of it's party - NOT the Dems.

    President Obama and the Dems have agreed to substantial compromises in order to get a deal done, but the radical Tea Party Repubs are unwilling to make any sane moderate bipartisan compromises.

    Not only are the radical Tea Partiers holding the American people hostage to it's extreme one-sided demands - they're holding the Repub party hostage to their extreme one-sided demands.

    The Repub party has become too bitterly divided and extreme in it's ideology to be able to lead govern or get things done on behalf of the American people.
  • creature

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    Jul 30, 2011 8:56 PM GMT
    socalfitness saidBoth parties have their factions. And those on the left can laugh all they want, but the point is this: If the moderate Democrats were not so marginalized by the far left zealots, then those of us who are moderate could go with or threaten to go with the Democrats, as a balance within the Republican Party to the zealots on the right. But as long as the Democrats are in effect representing the party of Obama and Pelosi, you won't get moderate support, and we have less leverage against the zealots on the right.


    Yes, both parties have their factions, and both parties can marginalize their moderates. In case you haven't noticed, but a lot of incumbent Republicans have had to take a stance further to the right since the introduction of the Tea Party movement. So if you want to look at marginalization, I suggest you look at your own party.

    May I ask what makes you a moderate? And if you think Obama represents a far left zealot, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.
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    Jul 30, 2011 8:59 PM GMT
    In any case, I am sorry, mocktwinkie, that you feel people are discriminating against you. Even though I absolutely disagree with your political views, I don't think such discrimination is deserved or justifiable.

    Again though, the battle is between the Libertarians and the Moral Authoritarians within the Republican party. The solution is simple and obvious: you won't eliminate this sort of nonsense until the Libertarian wing, and not the Moral Authoritarian wing, is the key to electoral victory.

    As I have repeatedly said to Republican supporters on here: why not spend your time advancing acceptance of gay people within your own party, rather than waste your time spewing vitriol over those with different political views? Why not challenge the prejudice within the GOP rather than beat your head against a brick wall?

    I have written before that I think the usurpation of the American right by ludicrous extremism, populism and moral authoritarianism has in fact destroyed the American political system INCLUDING the left. In Britain over the summer it has struck me that, even though I don't care for the British Conservative party, they are at least capable of governing and present their policies with justification and credibility [I agree with some of what they're doing, and disagree with other things] that is absolutely absent in the contemporary American right. What we have in the US is the final scene from a Farce.

    So all power to your elbow if you want to reform the GOP.
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    Jul 30, 2011 9:00 PM GMT
    TigerTim said
    socalfitness saidBoth parties have their factions. And those on the left can laugh all they want, but the point is this: If the moderate Democrats were not so marginalized by the far left zealots, then those of us who are moderate could go with or threaten to go with the Democrats, as a balance within the Republican Party to the zealots on the right. But as long as the Democrats are in effect representing the party of Obama and Pelosi, you won't get moderate support, and we have less leverage against the zealots on the right.


    I'm afraid that there really aren't any far left Democrats. The most left-leaning of all of them are equivalent to the European Center (and sometimes the right).

    American politics these days is a choice between the moderately conservative and the extreme authoritarians. This is why the political class is absolutely incapable of solving the countries problems.

    What is left and what is moderate with respect to European parties is not relevant. What many of us label as far-left Democrats are Obama and Pelosi and Schumer, as examples. What I label as a moderate Democrat is the former Representative from my district, Jane Harmon. I think some of the "blue dog" Democrats, who were largely sold down the river, would also be considered moderate Democrats.
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    Jul 30, 2011 9:05 PM GMT
    creature said
    socalfitness saidBoth parties have their factions. And those on the left can laugh all they want, but the point is this: If the moderate Democrats were not so marginalized by the far left zealots, then those of us who are moderate could go with or threaten to go with the Democrats, as a balance within the Republican Party to the zealots on the right. But as long as the Democrats are in effect representing the party of Obama and Pelosi, you won't get moderate support, and we have less leverage against the zealots on the right.


    Yes, both parties have their factions, and both parties can marginalize their moderates. In case you haven't noticed, but a lot of incumbent Republicans have had to take a stance further to the right since the introduction of the Tea Party movement. So if you want to look at marginalization, I suggest you look at your own party.

    May I ask what makes you a moderate? And if you think Obama represents a far left zealot, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

    I agree with you that the tea party has nudged more moderates to the right.

    I and many will maintain that Obama is a far left zealot and ideologue. The only times he takes more moderate positions, such as giving up the public option, is when he has no choice or deems it politically necessary because his politics are stronger than his core values.

    When one party moves further away from the center, there are pressures on the other party to do the same. That leaves many who are moderate on either side of the center to sometimes make difficult choices.

    UPDATED - What makes me a moderate? Social positions, generally. Also I have voted for moderate, and even liberal Democrats over the past few years:
    Calif Gov - Gray Davis over William Simon, Jr., who was unqualified IMO
    Senate - Diane Feinstein even she is left of me on many positions because of character qualities
    House - Jane Harmon - Moderate, pro-business, effectively looked after our district, good on foreign policy
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    Jul 30, 2011 9:11 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    I'm afraid that there really aren't any far left Democrats. The most left-leaning of all of them are equivalent to the European Center (and sometimes the right).

    American politics these days is a choice between the moderately conservative and the extreme authoritarians. This is why the political class is absolutely incapable of solving the countries problems.

    What is left and what is moderate with respect to European parties is not relevant. What many of us label as far-left Democrats are Obama and Pelosi and Schumer, as examples. What I label as a moderate Democrat is the former Representative from my district, Jane Harmon. I think some of the "blue dog" Democrats, who were largely sold down the river, would also be considered moderate Democrats.

    It is absolutely relevant, because you're characterizing people as "far left". There are no Democrats who can be reasonably characterized as "far left" and it is disingenuous to use the term.
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    Jul 30, 2011 9:24 PM GMT
    TigerTim said
    socalfitness said
    I'm afraid that there really aren't any far left Democrats. The most left-leaning of all of them are equivalent to the European Center (and sometimes the right).

    American politics these days is a choice between the moderately conservative and the extreme authoritarians. This is why the political class is absolutely incapable of solving the countries problems.

    What is left and what is moderate with respect to European parties is not relevant. What many of us label as far-left Democrats are Obama and Pelosi and Schumer, as examples. What I label as a moderate Democrat is the former Representative from my district, Jane Harmon. I think some of the "blue dog" Democrats, who were largely sold down the river, would also be considered moderate Democrats.

    It is absolutely relevant, because you're characterizing people as "far left". There are no Democrats who can be reasonably characterized as "far left" and it is disingenuous to use the term.

    It is relevant to you because your frame of reference is different. You are comparing our parties to those in Europe; I'm not. If we were to compare parties from countries ranging from Venezuela and Cuba to the US, then the terms "left" and "right" would take on different meanings.
  • creature

    Posts: 5197

    Jul 30, 2011 9:30 PM GMT
    socalfitness,

    I wasn't sure if there was anything besides your stance on gay issues that would classify you as a moderate on social issues. And I do remember you have voted for Democrats before. I haven't forgotten icon_biggrin.gif

    I voted for a Republican once myself. But I did it out of spite for our county executive. The man's a knucklehead.
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    Jul 30, 2011 9:32 PM GMT
    It's sad (?), but really not surprising.
    Some people like to think that social conservatives and economic conservatives can coexist under the same umbrella.
    Here CPAC effectively says, "We're happy to have you vote for conservative politicians and causes. We will gladly take your donations. You're just not conservative enough for us." The gays are a convenient scapegoat for the social conservatives, along with the immigrants, the Muslims, and the Europeans. They're not about to change course in the near future.

    What hell is there to pay? This outrage is just for show. If you're unwilling to voice your concern to CPAC or the conservative politicians and would not vote against them for fear of some Democratic Socalist taking over, then CPAC and the conservative politicians will continue along the same path.
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    Jul 30, 2011 9:41 PM GMT
    Ermine saidIt's sad (?), but really not surprising.
    Some people like to think that social conservatives and economic conservatives can coexist under the same umbrella.
    Here CPAC effectively says, "We're happy to have you vote for conservative politicians and causes. We will gladly take your donations. You're just not conservative enough for us." The gays are a convenient scapegoat for the social conservatives, along with the immigrants, the Muslims, and the Europeans. They're not about to change course in the near future.

    What hell is there to pay? This outrage is just for show. If you're unwilling to voice your concern to CPAC or the conservative politicians and would not vote against them for fear of some Democratic Socalist taking over, then CPAC and the conservative politicians will continue along the same path.

    +1
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    Jul 30, 2011 9:52 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    It is relevant to you because your frame of reference is different. You are comparing our parties to those in Europe; I'm not. If we were to compare parties from countries ranging from Venezuela and Cuba to the US, then the terms "left" and "right" would take on different meanings.


    It's a bit odd to be reproaching a right-winger for an excess of cultural relativism, but I am: the left is an extremely venerable intellectual tradition that cannot simply be washed away by relabeling. You have described some Democrats, and you clearly mean to be disingenuous by doing so, as belonging to the "far left". I am pointing out that since there are barely any American politicians who belong to the left-wing intellectual tradition, it is ludicrous to describe any of them as far left. You are obviously speaking pejoratively; I am pointing out the silliness of your description.
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    Jul 30, 2011 10:25 PM GMT
    TigerTim said
    socalfitness said
    It is relevant to you because your frame of reference is different. You are comparing our parties to those in Europe; I'm not. If we were to compare parties from countries ranging from Venezuela and Cuba to the US, then the terms "left" and "right" would take on different meanings.

    It's a bit odd to be reproaching a right-winger for an excess of cultural relativism, but I am: the left is an extremely venerable intellectual tradition that cannot simply be washed away by relabeling. You have described some Democrats, and you clearly mean to be disingenuous by doing so, as belonging to the "far left". I am pointing out that since there are barely any American politicians who belong to the left-wing intellectual tradition, it is ludicrous to describe any of them as far left. You are obviously speaking pejoratively; I am pointing out the silliness of your description.

    You're pretty funny. I am not associating anyone with a "left-wing intellectual tradition". I am also aware that there are some liberals who decry the absence of liberalism as an intellectual tradition among the left today, perhaps the American left. The definition of left and right that others and I use is independent of the pseudo-snobbery of the Ivy League and the New York Times and pompous jerks such as Joe Klein of Time Magazine, and also independent of the positions of the European political parties. My definitions are clear to most in the US, except for those in the progressive wing of the Democratic Party, who most likely consider themselves to be centrists.
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    Jul 30, 2011 10:44 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    TigerTim said
    socalfitness said
    It is relevant to you because your frame of reference is different. You are comparing our parties to those in Europe; I'm not. If we were to compare parties from countries ranging from Venezuela and Cuba to the US, then the terms "left" and "right" would take on different meanings.

    It's a bit odd to be reproaching a right-winger for an excess of cultural relativism, but I am: the left is an extremely venerable intellectual tradition that cannot simply be washed away by relabeling. You have described some Democrats, and you clearly mean to be disingenuous by doing so, as belonging to the "far left". I am pointing out that since there are barely any American politicians who belong to the left-wing intellectual tradition, it is ludicrous to describe any of them as far left. You are obviously speaking pejoratively; I am pointing out the silliness of your description.

    You're pretty funny. I am not associating anyone with a "left-wing intellectual tradition". I am also aware that there are some liberals who decry the absence of liberalism as an intellectual tradition among the left today, perhaps the American left. The definition of left and right that others and I use is independent of the pseudo-snobbery of the Ivy League and the New York Times and pompous jerks such as Joe Klein of Time Magazine, and also independent of the positions of the European political parties. My definitions are clear to most in the US, except for those in the progressive wing of the Democratic Party, who most likely consider themselves to be centrists.


    You are decidedly unfunny. We already gathered that you don't like intellectuals, newspapers or even, apparently, people with degrees. You have made no definition, rather contorted words with no clear meaning to make a spurious and pejorative [non-]point.
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    Jul 30, 2011 11:02 PM GMT
    TigerTim saidYou are decidedly unfunny. We already gathered that you don't like intellectuals, newspapers or even, apparently, people with degrees. You have made no definition, rather contorted words with no clear meaning to make a spurious and pejorative [non-]point.

    Gotta love the editorial we, or could it be the patronizing we, as found in a doctor's office? LOL As far as intellectuals, we are fine. My revulsion is directed towards those who wear it on their sleeve, often to intimidate others or otherwise to show their supposed superiority. In grad school, I had the privilege of knowing, and in a few cases, working with world renowned professors. I was struck by how down-to-earth (apologies to the other thread today on that topic) they were. Their work and reputation spoke for them, and they were different from snot-noses who needed to pull themselves up by putting others down.
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    Jul 30, 2011 11:34 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    TigerTim saidYou are decidedly unfunny. We already gathered that you don't like intellectuals, newspapers or even, apparently, people with degrees. You have made no definition, rather contorted words with no clear meaning to make a spurious and pejorative [non-]point.

    Gotta love the editorial we, or could it be the patronizing we, as found in a doctor's office? LOL As far as intellectuals, we are fine. My revulsion is directed towards those who wear it on their sleeve, often to intimidate others or otherwise to show their supposed superiority. In grad school, I had the privilege of knowing, and in a few cases, working with world renowned professors. I was struck by how down-to-earth (apologies to the other thread today on that topic) they were. Their work and reputation spoke for them, and they were different from snot-noses who needed to pull themselves up by putting others down.


    What a heartwarming story. So when did you become the closed-minded nasty piece of work that you are now then? Tell us so the rest of us may avoid it!
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    Jul 30, 2011 11:37 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    TigerTim said
    socalfitness saidBoth parties have their factions. And those on the left can laugh all they want, but the point is this: If the moderate Democrats were not so marginalized by the far left zealots, then those of us who are moderate could go with or threaten to go with the Democrats, as a balance within the Republican Party to the zealots on the right. But as long as the Democrats are in effect representing the party of Obama and Pelosi, you won't get moderate support, and we have less leverage against the zealots on the right.


    I'm afraid that there really aren't any far left Democrats. The most left-leaning of all of them are equivalent to the European Center (and sometimes the right).

    American politics these days is a choice between the moderately conservative and the extreme authoritarians. This is why the political class is absolutely incapable of solving the countries problems.

    What is left and what is moderate with respect to European parties is not relevant. What many of us label as far-left Democrats are Obama and Pelosi and Schumer, as examples. What I label as a moderate Democrat is the former Representative from my district, Jane Harmon. I think some of the "blue dog" Democrats, who were largely sold down the river, would also be considered moderate Democrats.


    Sorry, Socal, but you don't get to define what is left and right. There are agreed upon philosophies and Tim is absolutely correct. The Democratic Party is a moderately conservative party. Pro-business, applying "market" solutions to problems, etc. The only true leftists in the party are Kucinich and his ilk, of which there are few.