Loyalty

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    Aug 01, 2011 1:20 PM GMT
    Loyalty can help us as families (traditional and non-traditional) meet our challenges and problems better. Knowing that somebody is always in our corner helps quiet feelings of anxiety, fear, and uncertainty.

    Growing up in a viciously devout Mormon family my parents shared zero loyalty with the family. Perhaps a lack of loyalty from my parents reinforced my commitment to loyalty today. Perhaps its a bit of astrology--double scorpio??

    Over the past week I have been reading some of the forums. So many of them present difficult issues which occur because of the lack of loyalty. So many dis-loyal people and the problems they cause.... as well as our own dis-loyal actions create huge problems and stresses.

    If anyone is looking to improve your life I highly suggest learning about loyalty and putting it into practice. In my opinion loyalty fixes so many other enormous issues.

    (Save your co-pay to a therapist, and re-read this.) No, I am not a therapist; however, I could play one on TV. (Yes, I was trying to joke in the last sentence.)



  • mybud

    Posts: 11837

    Aug 01, 2011 5:29 PM GMT
    I agree but also understand that loyalty goes hand in hand with respect....No respect the loyalty fades....
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    Aug 01, 2011 6:02 PM GMT
    Loyalty and integrity are two very important things to me. I feel very lucky that I can always count on my partner. We've been there through some very challenging times, and it's made us grow closer. He could have left when I lost my job and started having health issues; instead, he pushed me to keeping going to doctors till we figured things out. He was the lifeline I needed when unemployment got the best of me, and now he can reap the rewards since I've been working full time and got a big promotion. His family is always there for me as well, and I for them (and also my partner).
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    Aug 01, 2011 6:06 PM GMT
    I'm not an expert on the Mormon religion, but I have always heard that the congregation really looks out for it's own.
    And this certainly SHOULD start at home...with the family.
    This seems to contradict the idea of "loyalty"...or perhaps I am misinterpreting your post.
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    Aug 02, 2011 12:48 AM GMT
    Excellent posts, wow you all have some depth that really made me think more about it.

    Also, "friends.." yes, Mormons do have a tremendous amount of loyalty to their faith and not individuals--especially gay individuals.

    Being gay destroys families in Utah especially. Marie Osmond is a perfect example. Her son (who is gay and we all know it) committed suicide. Osmond invited the anti-gay prophet to her son's funeral. The loyalty is there--but its to the faith--not their families.

    I try to be careful being too critical of Mormons because my family and many people I love are Mormons... but, they have zero loyalty to those they consider a threat.

    Mormons threats (According to the next prophet Elder Boyd K. Packer) include:
    1. Gays
    2. Intellectuals
    3. Apostates (those that leave the faith)

    Elder Packer claims these three groups are wolves among the sheep... vicious groups that will murder the flock... so yes... Gays are enemy #1.

    Also, I believe I am qualified to make these assertions. I was devout graduated from Seminary, Brigham Young University (Mormon University) and am a return missionary.

    Sheesh... I guess I was a bit long-winded.

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    Aug 02, 2011 11:29 AM GMT
    I dated a Seventh-Day Adventist for several years, and it was somewhat similar to what you are saying about the Mormon faith. The loyalty was to the religion and church, and the members were very insular. Of course, it was weird dating a man and having the family accept it - but I always did feel like the "wolf in sheep's clothing."
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    Aug 02, 2011 12:00 PM GMT
    utahguy said...
    I try to be careful being too critical of Mormons because my family and many people I love are Mormons... but, they have zero loyalty to those they consider a threat.

    Mormons threats (According to the next prophet Elder Boyd K. Packer) include:
    1. Gays
    2. Intellectuals
    3. Apostates (those that leave the faith)

    Elder Packer claims these three groups are wolves among the sheep... vicious groups that will murder the flock... so yes... Gays are enemy #1.
    Maybe I'm a little cold-hearted, but I'd cease contact with my family completely if they were more loyal to their religion than other family members. In fact there have been a few times I hung up on my mom and a couple other family members when they started chastising me with bible verses...and didn't call back nor answer for a few months. Works wonders when they realize how bad they hurt you.
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    Aug 02, 2011 12:19 PM GMT
    utahguy said
    Also, "friends.." yes, Mormons do have a tremendous amount of loyalty to their faith and not individuals--especially gay individuals.


    I grew up in a pseudo-Mormon household... my mom is Mormon, and took me to church until I was about 12. My dad isn't Mormon and sort of ignored the whole church thing entirely, but basically my brothers and I were raised Mormon, minus the baptism, and got out out a lot earlier than you did it seems.

    Still, I came to that same conclusion that my mom's loyalties were to her church first and her family second. This was painfully apparent with Prop 8. I had been out for 10 years by that point, and asked everyone in my family how they would be voting. She was the only one who said she would vote in favor of it, and we had a very... heart-wrenching... conversation about it. She is also a bit of an intellectual at times (she was a math teacher too), so I can see how she is conflicted.

    She's come a long way though... while she was in Germany last year with her best friend (also a Mormon, math teacher, but younger and a lot more progressive), they drove up to Cologne to cheer on me and my water polo team at the Gay Games. They met a lot of my friends, had dinner with us, and walked around meeting other people I had met that week. They even stayed to watch my best friend Perry compete in wrestling. It was kind of mind-blowing.

    I think her loyalties are conflicted though... at 70 years old, she lives alone now but still values her family. I think she's been able to see some of the rift that was caused in her family by being too loyal to the church, and is now trying to be loyal to both the best she can. If that makes sense..
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    Aug 02, 2011 12:20 PM GMT
    Fine words and discussion. Really thought-provoking.... icon_smile.gif

    To loyalty, I'd add commitment, integrity, honor and accountability (in many ways, the Mormon subculture has many respectable aspects and examples of these qualities, with exceptions I'm sure, as utahguy has pointed out).

    Loyalty and commitment to others and self (keeping your word to others and self), integrity (maintaining 'wholeness' and living your word), and honor & accountability (personal and social honor and accountability (and even to God), for we are not an island unto ourselves). (On the flip side to all that is the darker side -- shame, betrayal, excommunication, etc., etc. Inevitable as we have to have both sides of the coin. Can't know joy without pain. But that's not my point here...)

    If the gay community practiced the former such values, imagine the impact that would have on the "general perception" of our community.
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    Aug 02, 2011 1:45 PM GMT
    TerraFirma said...
    If the gay community practiced the former such values, imagine the impact that would have on the "general perception" of our community.
    As long as gays are attracted to the same gender, the "general perception" of our community will still be "ewww that's gay!" The ONLY way to change how society views us is to "turn straight." No amount of niceness or loyalty or honor or anything else will make society accept us as long as we're gay.