Israel Willing To Negotiate On (1967) Borders In Dramatic Policy Change, (it appears that Palestines UN Council bid for state recognition has forced Netanyahu to rethink his position on peace talks)

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    Aug 02, 2011 12:56 PM GMT
    "In a dramatic policy shift, Israel's prime minister has agreed to negotiate the borders of a Palestinian state based on the cease-fire line that marks off the West Bank" (1967 lines)

    "Up to now, Netanyahu has refused to spell out his plan for negotiating the border." "In a speech about the Middle East in May, Obama proposed negotiations based on the pre-1967 line with agreed swaps of territory between Israel and a Palestinian state. Netanyahu reacted angrily, Insisting that Israel would not withdraw from all of the West Bank, though that was not what Obama Proposed"

    "Now Netanyahu is basically accepting that framework, ----offering to trade Israeli territory on its side of the line for West Bank Land where its main Settlements are located."

    "The official, who has been briefed on the talks, spoke on condition of anonymity because the contacts are still in progress, He said he would not deny the TV report, while refusing to confirm the specitics."

    "We are willing in a framework of restoring the peace talks to accept a proposal that would contain elements that would be difficult for Israel and we would find very difficult to endorse," he said answering a question about the Obama proposal."

    "Part of the reason, he said, was that Israel is seeking to persuade the Palestinians to drop their initiative to win U.N. recognition of their state next month, something the Palestinians are doing out of frustration with stalled peace efforts."

    "Palestinians have demanded that Israel stop construction in its West Bank settlements and east Jerusalem before peace talks resume."

    "Previous Israeli governments have accepted the cease-fire line as the basis for talks,"

    "Palestinian officials said Monday they plan to begin mass marches against Israel's occupation of the West Bank on Sept. 20, the eve of the U.N. vote."

    This article can be found in the World section of Huffington Post dated 8-2-11.

    I have to wonder, will Netanyahu finally agree to a complete stop to settlement construction for the sake of restarting Peace negotiations?

    Palestinians are right in demanding an end to the theft of what has always been considered part of a future state of Palestine, can anyone imagine Israel not expecting the same if the situation were reversed?

    Wrap your mind around the fact that Israel would actually expect to continue taking land it Occupies from its neighbor Palestine and continuing building on it, while claiming it wants peace with them. Imagine coming before a judge claiming you want peace with a neighbor whose borders you are known to have been moving and building across, yet you tell the judge its your right to build on that contested land until a peace is made, just how far would you get with that judge? If I want peace with someone I've taken from, then it behooves me to return what I took, and promise not to repeat the theft, I sure wouldn't be seen as wanting peace if while claiming I wanted peace, I openly continued picking the pocket of my victim. Should anyone wonder why Israel is 'isolated' while using such tactics to get what they want ? Israel needs to get the point that fairness is not based only on whats good for them.

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    Aug 03, 2011 2:18 PM GMT
    This article, dated 7-26-11 appeared in the Washington Jewish Week

    Former Israeli Military, Political Leaders: '67 borders are defensible

    "Now at 71, Dagan is still fighting to preserve the Jewish State - though he's doing it far from the desert battlefield he once patrolled. Dagan and a squad of former Israeli military leaders and diplomats gathered Monday in the carpeted offices of J Street in downtown D.C. to discuss the dire need for a two -state solution"
    "The seven Israeli heavyweights, who are in town at the behest of J Street for a series of high - level meetings with officials from the White House, State Dept. and Pentagon, took time from their jam - packed schedule to explain why Israel's 1967 borders are not only defensible, but imperative to Israel's future as a jewish democratic state."
    "These are people who contributed a lot to Israel, much more than any of the big mouths that are talking today in the Israeli Knesset," explained Yoram Peri, Director of Israel Studies at the University of Maryland."

    "Often outspoken critics of the Israeli government, the group is comprised of Alon Pinkas, the former consul general of Israel in New York, as well as Major General (Ret.) Natan Sharony, a commander during the six day war, among others."

    "Each of the leaders interviewed defended President Barack Obama's Middle East record, and encouraged him to get even tougher."

    "Characterizing the outcry that resulted from Obama's remarkds as "just PR," Sher, a colonel in the Israeli Defense Forces Reserves, said that without a viable two -state solution, Israel risks becoming an "apartheid state" or worse, a "Jewish -Palestinians state."

    "icon_biggrin.gifagan also expressed concern about Israel's continued Military presence in the West Bank, arguing that the ongoing occupation is eroding the Jewish tenets his nation was built on."

    "We're controlling other people," Dagan said, referring to the Palestinians who live in contested areas. "Its's corrupting Israeli society, and we are losing the values that kept us Jewish for 2,000 years without a state."

    "If Israel abandons its inherently Jewish morals, Dagan added, gesturing emphatically, "the state will not survive."

    "Calling the current impasse in peace talks with the Palestinians untenable, Dagan went on to declare that his is prepared "to talk to Hamas today, " even though the terror group is Israel's avowed enemy. "if we can talk to the germans, ... we can talk to the Arabs: they never did what the germans did to us."


    "Asked how Israel can be expected to negotiate with a partner that consistently bucks direct talks, the Israeli leaders grew animated, and tension mounted in the tiny J Street office. "We are all eperts in assigning blame," Sher said. "YOU NEGOTIATE WITH WHOEVER IS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE TABLE."

  • Webster666

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    Aug 03, 2011 8:26 PM GMT
    Bullshit. I'll believe it when I see it.
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    Aug 04, 2011 5:11 PM GMT
    Webster666 saidBullshit. I'll believe it when I see it.

    WHAT ? you don't believe in the experience and accumilative knowledge of the moderate retired Generals in Israel ?
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    Aug 06, 2011 4:13 PM GMT
    A well known Jewish writer here in the US, M J Rosenberg wrote the following article and is found on Huffington Post.

    Is Israel Officially Giving up on Democrasy

    "It is hard to believe that anyone would give credence to reports of the supposed moderating of Prime Minister Netanyahu's terms for negotiating an agreement with the Palestinians. ......."

    "The Post views this framwork as a concession because the Palestinians would get "something they have long sought": they "would get the 1967 lines as the baseline" for negotiations."


    "In fact, no Israeli government ever questioned that the 1967 lines would be the baseline for negotiations until Netanyahu came to Washington in May and said that he rejected that commitment."

    "But now Netanyahu says that using the 1967 lines is OK, and all the gullible types say, "Hooray, a concession !" No way. Netanyahu just moved the goal post back to where it was for 44 years. BIG DEAL."
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    Aug 06, 2011 8:20 PM GMT
    realifedad said
    Webster666 saidBullshit. I'll believe it when I see it.

    WHAT ? you don't believe in the experience and accumilative knowledge of the moderate retired Generals in Israel ?

    Should we?

    Saddly I'll belive it when I see it too. Because they have never been about compromise or fair play in the past, because it's been our way or the freeway, yet no one ever got anywhere, other than with illegal land grabs.

    But................if it comes to pass, this is very good news. A step closer to undoing a very wrong action made by Mother England, in a time of desperation; make one ponder how bullied she may of also been to of made such a foolish decision in the first place. So it may of been bullied to of done so; creating a new country within an Old one.
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    Aug 07, 2011 4:16 PM GMT
    In an article titled: Israel Steet Protests: Suppressed by US Media, on "THE BOB TUSKIN SHOW", its quite apparent that a large part of whats behind the tens of thousands of protesters in Israel over housing costs are the highly subsidized Zionist Settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem.

    "Interviewed on Democracy Now, Israeli journalist Dimi Reider, called "what's happening in Israel --- nothing short of revolutionary" (over) "a vital issue like affordable housing."

    "Today's problems stem from 1990's policies favoring settlements, as well as subsidies to entice Israelis and other jews to fill them. Moreover, doing so and controling Occupied Palestine costs over $700 million annually, at the expense of neglecting construction and other needs in Israel."

    "Daily on streets in 11 Israeli cities, nonviolent visceral anger echoes calls for social justice, as well as thousands holding signs saying, "Game over - Bibi go home."

    "It's not a left or right issue. Polls show 87% of Israelis support the protests."

    "Knesset Legislative Extremism"----(according to Haaretz news writer Jonathan Lis) "Israel's Knesset passed a controversial housing bill despite popular protests against it.... It calls for solving Israel's housing crisis by expanding West Bank Settlements" the 42 Knesset signed and their rep. presented a petition to Netanyahu, :"calling on Netanyahu to solve the problem by "the Immediate housing of tens of thousands of (jews) in Judea and Samaria (the West Bank) as well as jerusalem"

    With these far righters in control, how in hell could the Palestinians hope for a state of their own with no encroachments from the Israeli's without trying to get it through the UN ?

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    Aug 08, 2011 4:21 PM GMT
    Over the last several weeks young Israeli's have demonstrated numbering in the hundreds of thousands. Over this last weekend Natanyahu tried to appease the demonstrators by saying that a commission would be formed to come up with answers to the problem.

    The demonstrators have brought up the issue of the huge cost of subsidizing the the settlements and the settlers themselves as well as the high cost of the continued Occupation. The far right even tried to solve the problem of lack of housing/high housing costs by expanding even more into the West Bank by increasing the settlements, this too has been a issue brought up by the demonstrators.

    Lets keep track of whether or not Netanyahu's new commission attempts to correct the high cost of housing by taking more land from the Occupied Palestinian Territories for new subsidized settlements. So far this year nearly 3000 Settlement Units have been approved. There are several discussions of this subject by Jewish writers on Huffington post. For some reason the MSM has largely ignored these demonstrations, I wonder why ?
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    Aug 09, 2011 2:47 PM GMT
    Apparently the Israeli youth led demonstrations for social justice has risen to numbers in the 300,000 range. still there is very little written or shown about this challenge to Netanyahu. Perhaps in part the silence is because part of the Israeli citizens beef is about the settlements, their costs and the costs of continued occupation that takes from the Israeli citizens needs and the far right Lieberman/Netanyahu types don't want Americans knowing this.

    THE JEWISH PAPER HAARETZ published a front page article by AMOS OZ

    He "had this to say about the resources that might be directed toward social justice in Israel: "First, the billions Israel has invested in the settlements, WHICH ARE THE GREATEST MISTAKE IN THE STATES HISTORY, as well as its greatest injustice, Second, the mammoth sums channeled into the ultra-Orthodox yeshivas, where generations of ignorant bums grow, filled with contempt toward the state, Its people and the 21-st century reality, and third, and perhaps foremost, the passionate support of Netanyahu's government and its predecessors for the unbridled enrichment of the various tycoons and their cronies, at the expense of the middle class and the poor."

    "As Oz goes on to say, it is "profoundly moving to see the protest vererans of all generations, who for years were a voice calling in the wilderness, spending time in the tents of the youngsters, who are wisely leading the new protest."

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    Aug 10, 2011 9:34 PM GMT
    In an article on Huggington Post Titled US Israel Construction Plans Cause Of Concern --------

    "The Obama Administration says it is "deeply concerned" by Israeli approval of new housing construction in disputed east Jerusalem."

    "The State Department says such "unilateral actions work against efforts to resume direct negotiations" and the spirit of the peace process. In a statement, the department says it has raised its objections with the Israeli government."

    "Last week, an Israeli planning commission approved 930 new housing units in the Har Homa neighborhood in east Jerusalem. Actual building is at least two years off."

    How in hell could Palestinians take Israel as being serious about wanting peace in light of continuing to promote even more settlements on the Palestinian Occupied Territory ?

    If I want peace with a neighbor whom I have stolen from, then I damn well better not be stealing from that neighbor while we talk peace. Is that too much like using common sense ?
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    Aug 12, 2011 1:15 AM GMT
    Israel Settlements: Israeli Government set to Approve 4,300 New Apartments in the Occupied East Jerusalem. in part as an answer to the high cost of housing which is one of the reasons for the great protests going on right now in Israel. This very subject of the illegal settlements is one of the very reasons for the Protests, yet the Far Right Lieberman and his ilk propose to exacerbate the problem by adding more, why arent' they being built on Israeli land whose borders are not in question ?

    How will this act be looked upon as a move showing an interest in making peace with the Palestinians whose land they keep taking and keep building on. This takes a lot of "SHITZPAH" from Israel's leadership to do this, while lobbying around the world to get other nations to vote with them against Palestinians being recognized as a state in the UN september meeting.

    You can find the basis for this post both on the Huffington Post or on the Jewish site Haaretz.
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    Aug 13, 2011 2:00 AM GMT
    was just looking at this topic about to add some more new info. and there was an add in among the comments that read.

    IS KILLING ISRAELI CHILDREN OK ? VOTE NO !!! the advertisement said and paid for by the David Horowitz Foundation.

    This kind of advertising is a direct link to disinformation and propaganda to confuse the facts of what is going on in Israel and to cover up that the Israeli's kill far more children than the reverse. And the settlements are right in the middle of this problem.

    The facts are that since the year 2000 Israel has killed 1500 Palestinian children, some settlers have as one of their fanatic beliefs, that it is actually OK to kill Palestinian Children. Deaths of Palestinian Children happen from 3 major problem areas on Israels part. Many are killed around the Illegal Settlements by settlers, and many more are killed by Israeli Defense Forces with a bullet to the head and many more die because Israeli checkpoint guards stop families from taking their ill or wounded children through the checkpoint to a hospital in a timely way.

    Since 2000 between 80 and 100 Israeli children have died, and who is making it look like they are the victim ? What a lie !

    check out the site, IF AMERICANS KNEW for the firgures on thise deaths.
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    Aug 13, 2011 2:29 AM GMT
    Where is Caesarea4??? icon_razz.gif
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    Aug 13, 2011 3:11 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 saidWhere is Caesarea4??? icon_razz.gif

    LIL'AIPAC, (C4) says he ignores me and now you too, LOL !!! so this fact allows me to keep new information coming daily on this subject without his ZIONIST PROPAGANDA interference, nore his name calling and labeling me as a Jew hater or anti semitic.

    Isn't it nice SB to be free of his propaganda ? I just like to get the truth out that things are not as they seem with Israel as the Zionists would have us believe and that AIPAC in America would like us to believe. The Israeli's are not the victim, they are in fact the aggressors.
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    Aug 13, 2011 9:34 PM GMT
    In the interest of peace between Israel and Palestine, the sad fact is that the US supports Israel with war materials and weaponry to keep up the attacks of the Palestinians. Perhaps If Israeli forces weren't kept in a constant supply of weapons they wouldn't be sending out snipers using up bullets aimed for Palestinian childrens heads who happen to get to close to the Gazan buffer zone. Shoot my child, my nephew or niece, my neighbors child or my friends child in the head and see I wouldn't do my level best to lob a bomb or two into Israel.

    AIPAC is sending about 80 Congressmen to Israel to see where and how the munitions are used and needed to "keep Israel safe" and here's one Israeli Americans view of that trip.

    "Yali Amit, an Israeli-American constituant of Rep. Jackson, JR. called his office to oppose his participation in the trip to Israel. He was told that Rep. Jackson, Jr. wants to learn what is happening there because of his postition on the appropriations subcommittee that approves military aid to Israel. Amit retorted that, "you cannot learn what goes on there on a paid trip to a propaganda arm of the Israeli government." And you certainly cannot learn about the devastating impact that these U.S. weapons have on unarmed Palestinian civilians, nearly 3,000 of whom were killed by the Israeli military over the last decade."

    Perhaps Netanyahu would be more interested in making peace if all his weaponry he uses to plague the Palestinians weren't so easy to come by.
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    Aug 15, 2011 12:52 AM GMT
    I've been reading a lot about the 4 week long Israeli tent city demonstrations from the Jewish paper/site Haaretz and as mentioned there have been up to 300,000 demonstrating at a time over the weekends. The organizers are planning and calling for a million protestors to come out in September,

    The protestors are calling for Netanyahu to step down and Haaretz claims that Israeli polls show that 88% of the public support the protestors.

    This is very big news in Israel and throughout the Middle East and it should be here in the US as well since it would open doors for the US efforts to get Netanyahu to stop the settlements so the Peace talks can go forward. But no media here in the US is putting this news on its front pages. WHY ?? My bet is that AIPAC's influencing to keep this quiet so that Israel's government and stance on dealing with the Palestinians isn't seen as being threatened, They want to keep Israel in a good light so those Munitions keep coming, and so the 2.3 billion in aid keeps flowing. After all how else could Israel affort to keep building all those walls and fences, settlements and paying for all those guards to keep back the Palestinians as they steal more and more land for more and more settlements, Its been estimated by the protestors that guarding settlements is taking 700 million a year that should be going to Israeli's programs rather than to settlement defense..

    And if you don't think AIPAC has people placed in influencial media positions think again. Wolf Blitzer of CNN for instance previously held a senior position in AIPAC. we should do research on membership and I think you would be amazed at how far reaching their influence has become. After all, 2.3 billion a year and millions in munitions gifts every year is well worth their efforts at lobbying here in the US.

    Israel's Sham Zionist schemes in their efforts to claim all of Palestine and to force out Palestinians are coming back to bite them, the world sees it and many US voters do too in spite of how desperately AiPAC and the LIKUD party try to hide the facts with slience on many issues, misinformation, direct lies and Zionist Propaganda laces with half truths.
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    Aug 17, 2011 3:26 AM GMT
    On the Jewish Daily Forward site there recently was another article about the large protests for social justice for Israeli citizens, there were more complaints about so much money going to illegal settlements and subsidies to the settlers themselves that there's no money for giving to its Citizens.

    One commentor wrote this

    "Netanyahu has in his recent speeches doubled down on privitization, He is the Israeli Reagan 30 years after Reagan, Neoliberalism doesn't work.

    Besides, as the Op-Ed in today's NYT show, a lot of government funding goes to the illegal settlements, Housing's a lot cheaper if you live in direct confrontation with international law, sanctioned by the settler - government.

    But ordinary Israelis have no such luck. They just barely manage to scrape by. And Netanyahu dissed them in the Knesset as 'populists'. The government, as it starts to lose it's legitimacy, will probably look to an outer enemy to patch up the interior rifts and contradictions that is a fact of modern Israeli life today."

    Interesting observations from what usually are Jewish readers.

    I wonder how the organizers of these on going huge protests who are trying to avoid the 'Peace' politics, can keep their protests going, then count some success and yet not mention the Palestinian Settlement issue. How can democratic Israel reach social justice for its people while continuing to rely on stealing land from Palestinians for settlement land ? That I would remind them is not social justice.
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    Aug 18, 2011 2:29 AM GMT
    Several sites are reporting today that Netanyahu has contacted the US state department to report that his decision is to not apologize to the Jordanians for the attack and murder of 9 on iits Flotilla to Gaza ship the Mar Mara, in May 2010. No report yet on whether or not Israel has decided to par reparations to the families of the fallen. Fatah officials condemned this action but Netanyahu refused to comment when asked by Huffington Post.

    This will certainly help the cause of peace between Israel and its neighbors won't it !! Add this to the decision to add nearly 3000 more settlement units in just the last few weeks and we can see how interested Nentanyahu is in peace !! NOT SO MUCH !!!

    Should anyone wonder why Palestinians have decided to go for recognition as a state before the UN General Council ?
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    Aug 19, 2011 2:23 AM GMT
    AHHHH !!! Glen Beck to the rescue !!!

    Glen Beck commenting about Israeli housing and cost of living protests, queeried about who was behind and "financing the ongoing protests, suggesting involvement of "leftist global financing" and possible support from "extremist Islamist movements."

    "yet the conservative pundit also offered a solution for Israel's current social crisis. "let's just develop in Judea and samaria the hos, "Judea -- they now call it I think the 'West Bank' or something -- but its real name is 'JEW'-DEA," Beck said.

    So the godly christian Glen Beck is telling the Israeli's to build more settlements on Occupied Palestinian Territory, yes, that would be the christian thing to do and of course he needn't tell Netanyahu that because that's already in their plans. This should certainly help the Peace Process !!!

    By the way, Glen Beck is planning a huge spiritual revival meeting In Israel, I believe before the UN bid for Palestinian statehood. OH THIS WILL BE INTERESTING. LOL We'll keep you posted.
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    Aug 20, 2011 6:00 PM GMT
    The Tel Aviv University, Chair of the Dept of PSychology, Carlo Strenger had this to say: NETANYAHU AND LIEBERMAN ARE MISSING THE ARAB SPRING. in the Huffington Post world section

    "In periods of change and uncertainty, the most important thing is to keep an open mind and to question old certainties and paradigms. Sure enough, Israel's current political leadership has done nothing of the sort, Netanyahu and our foreign Minister Lieberman ..... have made up their mind about the Arab world long ago, and no facts will confuse them. Netanyahu's views were shaped by his father, historian Benzion Netanyahus's theory that Arabs are slightly subhuman and can only be kept at by by force, if necessary by inflicting hunger and illness upon them, ... Netanyahu writes in his "A Durable Peace" that Palestinians should get four disconnected contons instead of a state --- leaving open, of course, how he thingks Palestinians can be beaten into accepting these Bantustans."

    "Lieberman, in his boodk "My Truth" has made clear that Palestinians need first to be crushed down completely (he leaves it to our imagination what that would entail), and that this wioll allow to impose his solution on them which is to give them limited autonomy in three small areas in the West Bank that will not be connected with each other."

    "Netanyahu and Lieberman )along with Geniuses like Glendd Beck) "know" Arabs better than all specialists in the world. They are firmly set in the idea that Arabs can never be partners in dialogue: they must be dealt with by force only. Neither relies on any differntiated analyses of the Arab and Muslim world, and neither shows any in depth knowledge of it.

    "Netanyahu and some of his revisionits supporters have turned the views of Vladimir Jabotinsky, the ideologue of the revisionist Zionism, formulated almost a century ago into infallible prophecy. this is about as rational as relying on medical research from the 1920's in trating cancer today."

    "But rationality is the one thing Netanyahue and Leiberman cannot deal with, they cling to their sinister worldviews not primarily out of intellectual conviction, but out of political epediency: their careers hinge on fear mongering. Hence I don't have the slightest hope that Lieberman and Netanyahu will change their minds or even listen to what the worlds leading experts on the Arab world have to say, Open mindedness and clarity of thought is their greatest enemy.

    There you go, an Inteligent Jewish Educators views of the hopes for peace rather dim if you depend on Netanyahu and his group of far right gullags. So the Palestinians best hopes are going for statehood recognition at the UN, maybe then Netanyahu and Lieberman's self inflicted delegitimization and isolation from the rest of the world, will lead the international powers including the US to force reasonable outcomes on the intransigent Israeli leadership. then peace will come. We can only hope.
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    Aug 23, 2011 4:34 AM GMT
    From reading on the Jewish News Site Haaretz, Netanyahu's Likud party are setting their feet in the muck of the status quo, which will definately frustrate any hope of Netanyahu's toward peace negotiations. Ad these matters to Netanyahu's continuous adding of more and more settlement approvals on Occupied Palestinian Territory and all you have is a recipe' giving the Palestinians multiple reasons to go forward with plans to seek statehood, and for the UN members to vote for it, because Israeli Leadership Arrogance gives no hopes for peaceful negotiations.

    Take a look at what Israel's leadership have done recently to frustrate any hopes of Palestinians getting a fair Peace Negotiation from them.

    "Lieberman is threatening to revoke the Oslo agreement" which having any knowledge of it is a big issue.

    "Two weeks ago, Deputy Knesset Speaker Danny Danon, of the ruling party in Israel, declared the Jewish People's right to all of the land of Israel, and to Judea and Samaria (the West Bank) in particular, Danon, who was introdueded by his title of World Likud Chairman, "ASSWERED THAT THE IDEA OF TWO STATES TO THE WEST OF THE JORDAN RIVER WAS UTTER NONSENSE."

    "On Wednesday Israeli public figures will participate in a demonstration of support of Israel, MODERATED BY GLEN BECK, the American preacher broadcaster who recently declared that Jordan is Palestine. The even, of course, will take place with a mass audience in East jerusalem at the foot of the temple Mount / Al Aqsa Mosque" Apparently many leaders of state are lining up to get their picture taken with Beck "THE EXTREMIST BROADCASTER" all of these actions are affronts to peace as Netanyahu desperately tries to convince UN member states not to vote for Palestinian recognition. Things are not looking good from Israels side for Peace, Its leadership Arrogance is strangling the effort.

    Be sure to read this on Haaretz titled "WHEN ISRAELI ARROGANCE MEETS ARAB HONOR" By AKIVA ELDAR