You Want Proof That Tax Cuts Don't Work?

  • GQjock

    Posts: 11649

    Aug 02, 2011 11:55 PM GMT
    In The Bush Decade when we had our most robust tax cuts and give aways
    There was ZERO job growth
    ZERO
    NADA
    NOTHING
    ZILCH

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    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/01/AR2010010101196.html
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    Aug 03, 2011 12:54 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 saidWell then, let's all just give our paychecks in their entirety to the government.





    An laughably extreme remark from the laughably extreme right.
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    Aug 03, 2011 1:09 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    yourname2000 said
    southbeach1500 saidWell then, let's all just give our paychecks in their entirety to the government.

    Right...'cos that's exactly what the other side is saying. icon_rolleyes.gif

    You've got no argument, of course, so it's your ussual snide remark to hide that fact.



    OK, given the current state of the U.S. economy and how the U.S. economy currently integrates into the world economy, how much more should we citizens be taxed?



    SouthBeach - Let's make a deal. You admit that you're simply greedy. That's all. You just want to keep every single penny you make, lest is inadvertently help feed a poor child or house a homeless family.

    Then you can further admit, that you really don't understand macro economics (which being a small business owner doesn't teach you), and that all of the talking points you pillory the forum with every day are not actually part of a larger vision for the best possible economic model for a country of 330 million people, but just a smoke screen for the fact that paying taxes chaps your ass.

    In turn, I will admit that while I'm very well grounded in politics, sociology and economics, the primary thing that motivates my political ideology is that I grew up poor and don't wish others to, I can't stand bullies in the school yard or the economy (and if you're a capitalist you wouldn't either), and at the end of the day it genuinely pains me to think about the millions of children who are homeless, the waste of human potential as millions of Americans rot in prison because we have stupid drug laws, and it chafes MY ass that greedy, unpatriotic douche bags are letting our country go to shit economically because they don't want to pay their taxes.
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    Aug 03, 2011 3:20 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    Christian73 said
    southbeach1500 said
    yourname2000 said
    southbeach1500 saidWell then, let's all just give our paychecks in their entirety to the government.

    Right...'cos that's exactly what the other side is saying. icon_rolleyes.gif

    You've got no argument, of course, so it's your ussual snide remark to hide that fact.



    OK, given the current state of the U.S. economy and how the U.S. economy currently integrates into the world economy, how much more should we citizens be taxed?



    SouthBeach - Let's make a deal. You admit that you're simply greedy. That's all. You just want to keep every single penny you make, lest is inadvertently help feed a poor child or house a homeless family.

    Then you can further admit, that you really don't understand macro economics (which being a small business owner doesn't teach you), and that all of the talking points you pillory the forum with every day are not actually part of a larger vision for the best possible economic model for a country of 330 million people, but just a smoke screen for the fact that paying taxes chaps your ass.

    In turn, I will admit that while I'm very well grounded in politics, sociology and economics, the primary thing that motivates my political ideology is that I grew up poor and don't wish others to, I can't stand bullies in the school yard or the economy (and if you're a capitalist you wouldn't either), and at the end of the day it genuinely pains me to think about the millions of children who are homeless, the waste of human potential as millions of Americans rot in prison because we have stupid drug laws, and it chafes MY ass that greedy, unpatriotic douche bags are letting our country go to shit economically because they don't want to pay their taxes.



    For some reason, you just can't understand that I find it completely unfair that 50% of households are paying zero in Federal income taxes and the Democrats keep insisting that I am not paying "my fair share."

    I also find it extremely offensive that the President and the Democrats keep parroting the line that a person earning $200,001 a year is a "millionaire and billionaire."

    It is also insane in my opinion to have to surrender even more of my money to an entity that has been shown for decades to waste what is given it.

    Once you understand these points, you'll understand me.



    The "completely unfair" tax policy is the result of Republican policies, and I do think some of it should be repealed. The question for you is would you trade places with any of those people? Frankly, being successful enough to pay the portion of income tax that I do, seems reasonable to me. And I don't hem and haw about it constantly, nor do I resent those who have less than me because they don't pay the same tax I do.

    As we've discussed previously, I think it's ridiculous that that top bracket is $200,001 for an individual. I don't think you should pay the same rate as John Paulson who earned $14 billion last year. He should pay a much, much higher rate. What I don't understand is why you don't support more progressive taxation. Maybe the rate for someone like you should be lower, but it should not be the case that Warren Buffet pay a lower rate than his secretary.

    And I want there to be as little waste in government spending, but I don't think taking care of the elderly is wasteful and Medicare is one of hte most cost-efficient programs ever. Yet, you hate it. If there was Medicare for all, our healthcare costs would drop instead of increase and we could start tackling the serious issues of an aging population.
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    Aug 03, 2011 3:52 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 saidFor some reason, you just can't understand that I find it completely unfair that 50% of households are paying zero in Federal income taxes and the Democrats keep insisting that I am not paying "my fair share."


    Don't you just hate how people who are one unexpected auto repair away from bankruptcy pay less income taxes than you, while they are paying a higher percentage of their pittance on sales taxes and indirect (via rent) property taxes?
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    Aug 03, 2011 3:54 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 saidWell then, let's all just give our paychecks in their entirety to the government.


    That would be the logical conclusion.
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    Aug 03, 2011 5:10 AM GMT
    They (liberals) don't want ALL of your paycheck. Just the bulk of it. ;)
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    Aug 03, 2011 5:14 AM GMT
    alphatrigger saidThey (liberals) don't want ALL of your paycheck. Just the bulk of it. ;)


    [ CITATION NEEDED ]
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    Aug 03, 2011 5:15 AM GMT
    "All property, indeed, except the savage's temporary Cabin, his Bow, his matchcoat, and other little Acquisitions, absolutely necessary for his subsistence, seems to me to be the creature of public convention. Hence the public has the right of regulating descents, and all other conveyances of property, and even of limiting the quantity and the uses of it.

    All the property that is necessary to a man, for the conservation of the individual and the propagation of the species, is his natural right, which none can justly deprive him of: But all property superfluous to such purposes is the property of the public, who, by their laws have created it, and who may therefore by other laws dispose of it whenever the welfare of the public shall demand such disposition.

    He that does not like civil society on these terms, let him retire and live among savages. He can have no right to the benefits of society, who will not pay his club towards the support of it.
    "

    - Benjamin Franklin
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19133

    Aug 03, 2011 6:43 AM GMT
    Christian73 said
    In turn, I will admit that while I'm very well grounded in politics, sociology and economics, the primary thing that motivates my political ideology is that I grew up poor .....


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    Aug 03, 2011 6:59 AM GMT
    JackNWNJ said
    southbeach1500 saidWell then, let's all just give our paychecks in their entirety to the government.


    That would be the logical conclusion.




    ...to an illogical ideologically extreme right-winger.
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    Aug 03, 2011 11:14 AM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    Christian73 said
    In turn, I will admit that while I'm very well grounded in politics, sociology and economics, the primary thing that motivates my political ideology is that I grew up poor .....


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    Really, Todd? icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Aug 03, 2011 12:32 PM GMT
    The thread title and the words of the OP suggest the tax rates did not have a stimulative effect on the unemployment rate. The article cited makes no such suggestion, and, in fact, does not mention tax policy. The article describes economic conditions, policies, and business practices, suggesting they created an environment that resulted in stagnation. Even the article does not claim specific causation of factors, but, instead, a correlation of multiple factors, tax policy not being one of them.

    Even if the OP brings tax rates into the equation, in an extremely imprecise way, he appears to not understand or chooses to ignore the differences between correlation and causation, and the need to control for several variables when the effect of one variable needs to be studied.

    Perhaps this can be stated in more RJ-direct language. Based on the reference and statement of tax rates, the thread title and OP words are TOTAL BS.
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    Aug 03, 2011 1:09 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    Christian73 said
    In turn, I will admit that while I'm very well grounded in politics, sociology and economics, the primary thing that motivates my political ideology is that I grew up poor .....


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    I don't find your little violin players to be funny at all. Instead, they paint you as being insensitive. Oh but wait.....I forgot.... insensitivity = masculinity. Sorry I forgot.
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    Aug 03, 2011 1:27 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    Christian73 said
    In turn, I will admit that while I'm very well grounded in politics, sociology and economics, the primary thing that motivates my political ideology is that I grew up poor .....


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    Stop being a cunt.
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    Aug 03, 2011 1:53 PM GMT
    Christian73 said... In turn, I will admit that while I'm very well grounded in politics, sociology and economics, the primary thing that motivates my political ideology is that I grew up poor and don't wish others to, I can't stand bullies in the school yard or the economy (and if you're a capitalist you wouldn't either), and at the end of the day it genuinely pains me to think about the millions of children who are homeless, the waste of human potential as millions of Americans rot in prison because we have stupid drug laws, and it chafes MY ass that greedy, unpatriotic douche bags are letting our country go to shit economically because they don't want to pay their taxes.

    Christian and I share the desire that the poor get a fair chance and that bullies are challenged. We were both involved together in a bullying situation on RJ. We have different opinions on how the fairness and ultimate chance at prosperity can be achieved.

    A comment on growing up poor - During the past century when my grandparents were adult and my parents were young, the population demographics were aligned with political parties. There were the WASPs (White, Anglo-Saxon Protestants) who were members of country clubs that excluded or had only token representatives from Blacks, Jews, Catholics (especially Italians and Irish). The stereotypical father looked like Newt Gingrich, sitting in their country club libraries, puffing cigars. The trophy wife and kids who could afford braces were at the pool or on the tennis courts. They supported the Republican Party, while everyone else found the Democratic Party to be their home. The WASPs/Republicans had the image, probably largely true, of protecting business, saying everyone else could eat cake. The Democrats were the only ones who cared about workers and supported unions, often instrumental in forcing safe work environments. Being Democratic and union members within families came to be based not only on economic reasons, but also cultural and even emotional ties.

    Over the years, the parties have changed. I see the Democratic Party moving to the left, at least now, and the Republican Party has broadened considerably, and many of demographics who supported Democrats in the past began to support Republicans. Many have not changed, in many cases because they continue to believe the Democratic Party best represents them, but it is also very difficult to turn against a tradition of your parents and grandparents.

    In my area, I know a number of people, some in the entertainment industry, who are Jewish and grew up in New York and have been liberal for years. Some will always be liberal, some have changed to be at least independent.

    The only point to this is to understand there are many factors behind someone's political orientation.
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    Aug 03, 2011 7:27 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 saidSure


    Apparently you have no clue what a citation is, either.
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    Aug 03, 2011 7:28 PM GMT
    JackNWNJ said
    southbeach1500 saidWell then, let's all just give our paychecks in their entirety to the government.


    That would be the logical conclusion.




    NOPE !!!! just go back to tax rates that worked under which our nation was prosporous, such as just prior to deregulation of the banks and NAFTA agreed to by a very good republican named Clinton.



    Questions ??? are you worried about the rich not being able to take care of themselves if we do away with Bush tax cuts that did not work to provide jobs ?

    Perhaps some of you who are concerned that the rich need help, should take up collections for them, because they provide jobs even when the masses are so poor that they have no money to buy what those rich people hire people to make. RIGHT ???

    Yes indeed, make sure the rich get richer because the one in a thousand who are rich and have no needs, are going to keep our economy going by buying and making things they don't need. RIGHT ????

    The Rich need Government to take care of them and create policies so our nations wealth is redistributed upwards, that's the way to keep the economy going, because its worked so well over the last ten years RIGHT ????
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    Aug 04, 2011 12:52 AM GMT
    Cantor has the answer as to where taxes that are not collected go to when corporations have a choice (regarding the FAA's uncollected $28.6 million/day aviation tax right now):

    CANTOR: And what airlines have done is have stepped in and said, well, if we’re not going to pay that money to the federal government, we’re going to keep it towards our own bottom line. And I guess that’s what business does.