police kill schizophrenic

  • kolkii

    Posts: 147

    Aug 05, 2011 12:05 AM GMT
    icon_sad.gif

    http://news.yahoo.com/homeless-mans-death-arrest-outrages-father-081021492.html#

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    Aug 05, 2011 12:37 AM GMT
    Relevant:

    Two videos of bystanders watching the murder:
    http://fullertonstories.com/kelly-thomas-arrest-footage/
    (You can hear the taser going off while they kill him.)

    More footage and a few article links, including some information of the 6 murderers:
    http://www.fullertonsfuture.org/

    Picture of the victim before he died (NSFL):
    Kelly-Thomas-Police-Beating.jpg

    Eye-witness account of the murder:


    Email address to local City Council:
    Council@ci.fullerton.ca.us
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    Aug 05, 2011 2:42 AM GMT
    Was the father outraged that his son was homeless in the first place?
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    Aug 05, 2011 2:47 AM GMT
    JackNWNJ saidWas the father outraged that his son was homeless in the first place?


    I wondered the same thing. I wondered if it's possible the father knew his son was off his meds also.
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    Aug 05, 2011 2:48 AM GMT
    JackNWNJ saidWas the father outraged that his son was homeless in the first place?


    he didn't consider him homeless, rather he felt his son had many homes.
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    Aug 05, 2011 2:53 AM GMT
    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (who guards the guards)


    That the police would inflict this kind of injury onto anyone, let alone a person with a psychotic disorder is unconscionable and cannot be allowed. We are the guards of the police, and we can't forget that. Every officer involved in this should be fired. Their role is to protect and they have failed.
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    Aug 05, 2011 2:55 AM GMT
    JackNWNJ saidWas the father outraged that his son was homeless in the first place?



    The "kid" was in his 20's and was an adult. The father apparently didn't know he had stopped taking his meds. I wouldn't be so quick to assume his father didn't love or care for his son.
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    Aug 05, 2011 2:56 AM GMT
    I'm much more afraid of cops than I am criminals. Cops can hurt you much more than a criminal can and can get away with it.
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    Aug 05, 2011 3:00 AM GMT
    This happened to the city next to where I live. It is big news here.
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    Aug 05, 2011 3:11 AM GMT
    Scruffypup saidI'm much more afraid of cops than I am criminals. Cops can hurt you much more than a criminal can and can get away with it.


    I've had law enforcement training in the past and I will say the police officers get a bad rap because they enforce laws and people generally don't like being told what to do, but guess what that's their job.

    Officers have a leg to stand on more times than not because their training dictates their actions. If they can prove that they acted withing the scope of their training they will be found not guilty more times than not.

    As a military police, I was more nerouvs of unruly people because you never knew who wanted you dead because you enforced laws, sad but true. If their were no police I believe beyond a reasonable doubt your statement would be a complete 180 of what it was.

    On another note, had this man been properly monitored this event would not have happened. He was diagnosed as a schizophrenic with previous infractions with the law, that tells me he he should have been monitored a bit more closely and under the direct supervision of mental health personnel. Instead of being allowed to go off his meds and become homeless.
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    Aug 05, 2011 3:18 AM GMT
    Scruffypup saidI'm much more afraid of cops than I am criminals. Cops can hurt you much more than a criminal can and can get away with it.
    +infinity

    They need to start holding them responsible instead of letting them go.
  • JP85257

    Posts: 3284

    Aug 05, 2011 3:19 AM GMT
    I always side with the cops....Ya know Living in the kidnapping capitol of the US.

    http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/local/phoenix/2-police-officers-shot-in-w-phoenix-08042011
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    Aug 05, 2011 3:46 AM GMT
    TakoTaiko said If their were no police I believe beyond a reasonable doubt your statement would be a complete 180 of what it was.


    You mean if there were no police, Scruffypup wouldn't be afraid of police? I agree 100%. Neither would I.

    And yes, I fear power-hungry criminals with guns and badges as well. A cop's job is not to tell people what to do. A cop's job is to uphold the law. To protect innocent people from getting injured, and to stop people from injuring others. It's not to do whatever they please, including killing people they deem less than worthy of life, and finding some way to prove that they were in the right. And of course you were more worried about unruly people. You were armed, and could legally kill someone, as long as you could "prove that [you] acted withing the scope of [your] training." That's the advantage you had over anyone you deemed "unruly." Fuck everything about that.
  • kolkii

    Posts: 147

    Aug 05, 2011 3:58 AM GMT
    the worst part..

    cops were given PAID leave..

    meaning the dad, family, and friends have to pay for the cops' paid vacations and pensions on top of that..

    salt meet wound icon_sad.gif
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    Aug 05, 2011 4:05 AM GMT
    Scruffypup saidI'm much more afraid of cops than I am criminals. Cops can hurt you much more than a criminal can and can get away with it.


    this is the dumbest fucking thing i've ever read. how can cops hurt you more? please explain that statement. like really...is there a secret torture chamber that only police have access too? im pretty sure that any criminal can hurt you in any number of ways. criminals can cut your feet off and put you them in their freezer. or lock you in a chest at the foot of their bed. or any number of stories that have come out in the past 2 weeks where those people were brought to justice. sure, cops can fuck you up to. but "much more than a criminal can"? i dont really get that.
    why is it that all 'criminals' dont get lumped together but all police do? i dont understand. you are afraid of the police? really? what are you doing that would make you afraid? i uphold the law everyday, i have no fear. if my person needs to be searched for whatever reason, go ahead. ill take a lie detector test, a drug test i mean shit ill take a fucking aids test if i have to.
    but uhh, really? you are more afraid of someone who has taken an oath to uphold the law than someone who has been convicted of ummm i dont know murder? what a completely fucking retard statement. cops do shitty things sometimes but they are the exception. by definition, criminals commit crime. but you know what...thats probably the polices fault for arresting them.
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    Aug 05, 2011 4:22 AM GMT
    blackstrap said
    Scruffypup saidI'm much more afraid of cops than I am criminals. Cops can hurt you much more than a criminal can and can get away with it.


    this is the dumbest fucking thing i've ever read. how can cops hurt you more? please explain that statement. like really...is there a secret torture chamber that only police have access too? im pretty sure that any criminal can hurt you in any number of ways. criminals can cut your feet off and put you them in their freezer. or lock you in a chest at the foot of their bed. or any number of stories that have come out in the past 2 weeks where those people were brought to justice. sure, cops can fuck you up to. but "much more than a criminal can"? i dont really get that.
    why is it that all 'criminals' dont get lumped together but all police do? i dont understand. you are afraid of the police? really? what are you doing that would make you afraid? i uphold the law everyday, i have no fear. if my person needs to be searched for whatever reason, go ahead. ill take a lie detector test, a drug test i mean shit ill take a fucking aids test if i have to.
    but uhh, really? you are more afraid of someone who has taken an oath to uphold the law than someone who has been convicted of ummm i dont know murder? what a completely fucking retard statement. cops do shitty things sometimes but they are the exception. by definition, criminals commit crime. but you know what...thats probably the polices fault for arresting them.



    Walk in my shoes before you go calling me a retard. I've personally had TWO cops arrested here. And both of their arrests were on the front page of the paper. The cops where I live are EXTREMELY CORRUPT. And no, I've never been arrested and I do NOTHING illegal. But that doesn't keep you safe from the police. They carry the most up to date weapons and can radio for as much backup as they need, just like in the video where they murdered this guy. And they have ultimate power because they carry a fucking badge. And if you actually think that taking a stupid oath makes a person honest, you're the retard!
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    Aug 05, 2011 4:42 AM GMT
    Pyrotech said
    TakoTaiko said If their were no police I believe beyond a reasonable doubt your statement would be a complete 180 of what it was.


    You mean if there were no police, Scruffypup wouldn't be afraid of police? I agree 100%. Neither would I.

    And yes, I fear power-hungry criminals with guns and badges as well. A cop's job is not to tell people what to do. A cop's job is to uphold the law. To protect innocent people from getting injured, and to stop people from injuring others. It's not to do whatever they please, including killing people they deem less than worthy of life, and finding some way to prove that they were in the right. And of course you were more worried about unruly people. You were armed, and could legally kill someone, as long as you could "prove that [you] acted withing the scope of [your] training." That's the advantage you had over anyone you deemed "unruly." Fuck everything about that.


    Police officers perform a needed function, as much as people think is unnecessary in society, it needed. Had they not been given tools to subdue to people, I believe they would not be able to get their jobs done in a manner in which they aren't harmed or killed on a daily basis.

    However, the advantage anyone has in any case is to act in a responsible manner and within he scope of law as it applies to them. People are going to break laws whether they have a badge, a knife or a gun. You could get killed confronting someone on something that is sure to rile a response of violence just as well a police officer. On flip side there are laws in place to allow an officer to protect themselves just as much as you, as well as means for you to bear arms as well as they do.

    Your point about proving self defense is moot, as everyone is entitled to it, and in this case not all the facts are in and the video does not clearly report the events that occurred prior just peoples reactions. Before the officers are found at fault by the court of public opinion, maybe a release of what cause them to use force is needed before a bandwagon response of police brutality.

    I stand by the police choice to subdue a mentally ill man. I do not stand by excessive force which is not protected by any law, which is still undetermined.

    Another point, the family allowed him into harm's way because it was his choice, irresponsible IMO. They knew he was out on the streets without his medication and expected something to happen. If anyone knows someone who is mentally ill (myself have a sister with mental illness) knows they do not make sound judgement off treatment, on their own. More times than not, they need to be monitored to ensure they are acting responsibly. The father told the media "My daughter and I have talked for years that we'd get the call that something had happened to him, whether it was from organ failure because he's not drinking enough fluids or the elements or maybe gang activity," said his father, Ron Thomas."

    I hate to have this view, but it seems as though they got what they were dreading for by not intervening . If they could have been involved then perhaps this tragedy would not have occurred, instead they let him do as he please and this is the result. Sad to say but this entire series of events was preventable.
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    Aug 05, 2011 4:46 AM GMT
    i didnt say i trust cops (i dont trust anyone) or taking an oath makes someone honest (everyone in the military takes an oath and i can tell you first hand that doesnt mean shit). its really easy to make up things someone says and tell them they are wrong, right? i trust cops more than criminals. i dont know what fucking world you live in where youd rather be in a room with a bunch of junky thieves than police officers or if im just misunderstanding the jist of what you are saying but how can you even imply that criminals are somehow more honorable than police officers? i mean like really...what do you propose we do in place of having police? i mean everyone is always on some 'who polices the police' shit but they have no actual answer as to what we should do in place of a police force if the natural propensity for someone who goes into law enforcement is corruption.
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    Aug 05, 2011 4:47 AM GMT
    TakoTaiko said
    Scruffypup saidI'm much more afraid of cops than I am criminals. Cops can hurt you much more than a criminal can and can get away with it.


    I've had law enforcement training in the past and I will say the police officers get a bad rap because they enforce laws and people generally don't like being told what to do, but guess what that's their job.

    Officers have a leg to stand on more times than not because their training dictates their actions. If they can prove that they acted withing the scope of their training they will be found not guilty more times than not.

    As a military police, I was more nerouvs of unruly people because you never knew who wanted you dead because you enforced laws, sad but true. If their were no police I believe beyond a reasonable doubt your statement would be a complete 180 of what it was.

    On another note, had this man been properly monitored this event would not have happened. He was diagnosed as a schizophrenic with previous infractions with the law, that tells me he he should have been monitored a bit more closely and under the direct supervision of mental health personnel. Instead of being allowed to go off his meds and become homeless.


    .........soo you in the uniform...there are pics of this yes? icon_razz.gif
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    Aug 05, 2011 5:42 AM GMT
    yourname2000 saidWell that's weird....when did Vancouver Police start working in California??
    >


    O wow, its worse than i thought over there with those riots... no wonder the people around BC dislike Vancouver so much
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    Aug 05, 2011 11:56 AM GMT
    blackstrap saidi didnt say i trust cops (i dont trust anyone) or taking an oath makes someone honest (everyone in the military takes an oath and i can tell you first hand that doesnt mean shit). its really easy to make up things someone says and tell them they are wrong, right? i trust cops more than criminals. i dont know what fucking world you live in where youd rather be in a room with a bunch of junky thieves than police officers or if im just misunderstanding the jist of what you are saying but how can you even imply that criminals are somehow more honorable than police officers? i mean like really...what do you propose we do in place of having police? i mean everyone is always on some 'who polices the police' shit but they have no actual answer as to what we should do in place of a police force if the natural propensity for someone who goes into law enforcement is corruption.




    You're putting words in mouth I never said, and I learned a long time ago that trying to defend yourself against someone who jumps to conclusions about you is fruitless. I didn't just wake up one day and decide I don't trust cops anymore. I have seen way too many horrible situations happen when cops are involved, and several times I've risked my life by intervening. Other times I've had to do their job for them, like chasing down a bunch of guys who I witness beating a kid and throwing him in the back of their car and speeding off. Fearing what would happen to the kid if I lost site of them, I followed them for 45 minutes while we're passing cops who won't pursue. All the time 911 telling me they can't do anything because we keep leaving jurisdiction. My experiences with cops have shaped my opinion of them. And yes, I would rather go up against some thug with a gun or knife than a cop, because innocent or not, a cop can legally get away with murder. I feel confident walking through the worst areas of New Orleans because I know that I have a very good shot at protecting myself, but I am completely defenseless against a corrupt cop, and unlike you....I'm not so sure that the majority of them are in it to help people.