Question about gay men and gay lifestyle

  • tuffguyndc

    Posts: 4437

    Aug 07, 2011 5:14 PM GMT
    This thread is just more so to get others thoughts on this topic. I have noticed over the years that some really great guys have gotten caught up in this so called gay culture or lifestyle. I know I am babbling but I bare with me. I know these two guys who are great guys. They are very masculine, handsome, but do not have the best bodies. However, I could over look that but others in this lifestyle seem not to be able to do that. Because, they do not fit the typical stereotype they lost themselves and turned to drugs and just became reckless. Now one is HIV positive and is still going bareback. The other one is doing the same and is also doing drugs as well. Why do guys allow the others to do this to them. Is it because of low self esteem, trying to fit in become what others want them to be or is it something more? Guys, I have spent most of my life not conforming to stereotypes any other stupid ideas others may think. Why couldn't they do that. I mean they are both smart, very successful and really really great guys. But they allowed themselves to fall victim to this ridiculous lifestyle. I am sure only they know why but why do guys like become victims?
  • tuffguyndc

    Posts: 4437

    Aug 07, 2011 5:14 PM GMT
    I know it will take a while for people to see this but would really like some feed back on this guys.
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    Aug 07, 2011 5:34 PM GMT
    This is a little confusing.

    I do not see the correlation between the supposed "gay lifestyle" being equal to drugs and recklessness.

    Gay people are each individuals and lead different kinds of lives, in my experience.

    Are you answering why people fall into drugs -- which happens to both gay and straight (and bi) people?
  • tuffguyndc

    Posts: 4437

    Aug 07, 2011 5:38 PM GMT
    TroyAthlete saidThis is a little confusing.

    I do not see the correlation between the supposed "gay lifestyle" being equal to drugs and recklessness.

    Gay people are each individuals and lead different kinds of lives, in my experience.

    Are you answering why people fall into drugs -- which happens to both gay and straight (and bi) people?
    i am sorry if you think i am generalizing but i do not think i am. i have known many many quality gay guys. I am just wondering why is it that's all. Oh and you are right about all do reckless things and do drugs but I am not talking about the others I am talking about gay and bi guys. Also, I use those two guys because I have come across many many gays guys like that. I am just wondering why
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    Aug 07, 2011 5:39 PM GMT
    It sounds like your friends are just weak minded or very insecure about who they are. Its sad it turned out that way for them. I can understand your frustration with them.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19129

    Aug 07, 2011 5:41 PM GMT
    There is a lot of deep-rooted pain, insecurity, and self-loathing within the gay community, and it often-times manifests itself in drug use or other addictions. There have been many studies done on growing up gay and the effect this has (or can have) thoughout the adult lives of gays.
  • tuffguyndc

    Posts: 4437

    Aug 07, 2011 5:42 PM GMT
    Dallasfan824 saidIt sounds like your friends are just weak minded or very insecure about who they are. Its sad it turned out that way for them. I can understand your frustration with them.
    Thank you buddy, I appreciate you honesty and your opinion. I agree with you about them being weak minded and maybe even a little insecure. But I just wonder why this happens and why do people allow this to happen? Is it because of a lack of support?
  • tuffguyndc

    Posts: 4437

    Aug 07, 2011 5:45 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ saidThere is a lot of deep-rooted pain, insecurity, and self-loathing within the gay community, and it often-times manifests itself in drug use or other addictions. There have been many studies done on growing up gay and the effect this has (or can have) thoughout the adult lives of gays.
    i guess you have a point. i just fine it so frustrating that people who are really good heated people can fall victim to this. It saddens me more than anything because these are the people who seem to get lost
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    Aug 07, 2011 5:47 PM GMT
    tuffguyndc saidAlso, I use those two guys because I have come across many many gays guys like that. I am just wondering why


    Yeah, as a therapist I know many straight people who are reckless substance abusers. I don't, though, think it has to do with a "straight lifestyle."

    I assume your gay friends abuse so for the same complex reasons as all other addicts: peer pressure, depression, physical and mental illness, modeling, experimentation, rebelliousness, self-image problems, personality disorders, grief and pain, loneliness, etc etc.

    Depends on the individual and his or her background, history, physiology, and environment.

  • tuffguyndc

    Posts: 4437

    Aug 07, 2011 5:51 PM GMT
    TroyAthlete said
    tuffguyndc saidAlso, I use those two guys because I have come across many many gays guys like that. I am just wondering why


    Yeah, as a therapist I know many straight people who are reckless substance abusers. I don't, though, think it has to do with a "straight lifestyle."

    I assume your gay friends abuse so for the same complex reasons as all other addicts: peer pressure, depression, physical and mental illness, modeling, experimentation, rebelliousness, self-image problems, personality disorders, grief and pain, loneliness, etc etc.

    Depends on the individual and his or her background, history, physiology, and environment.

    i am not talking about straight people buddy. i am talking gay people. straight people are not worried about if there bodies are nice enough to get a date. straight people are not worried about if they are masculine enough or feminine enough to get a date. yeah there are similarities but there are definitely some differences. even you as a therapist should know that so please do not try to make this into a gay verses straight.
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    Aug 07, 2011 6:03 PM GMT
    tuffguyndc said
    Dallasfan824 saidIt sounds like your friends are just weak minded or very insecure about who they are. Its sad it turned out that way for them. I can understand your frustration with them.
    Thank you buddy, I appreciate you honesty and your opinion. I agree with you about them being weak minded and maybe even a little insecure. But I just wonder why this happens and why do people allow this to happen? Is it because of a lack of support?


    im not sure if its a support issue. It is only if the person would respond to support. People battle their demands in different ways and respond to support differently. Some can pull themselves out of it and some just cant. I went through a drug period driven by really low self esteem. I was able to get myself to a place where I was able to fix myself.
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    Aug 07, 2011 6:05 PM GMT
    tuffguyndc said i am not talking about straight people buddy. i am talking gay people. straight people are not worried about if there bodies are nice enough to get a date. straight people are not worried about if they are masculine enough or feminine enough to get a date. yeah there are similarities but there are definitely some differences. even you as a therapist should know that so please do not try to make this into a gay verses straight.


    It's not about gay vs. straight, it's about fact vs. fiction.

    It is fiction that heterosexuals don't have body image and heterosexist identification issues. It is also fiction that leading a "gay lifestyle" is deterministic in predicting substance abuse, mostly because there is no one definition of what constitutes a "gay lifestyle."

    It is a fact that the reasons for drug dependency and destructive behavior vary from individual to individuals. While it is a fact that homosexuals are slightly more likely than their straight peers percentage-wise to engage in illicit drug use, it is also a fact that the vast majority of LGBT people do not use drugs.

    The "gay lifestyle" then, if there is one, is for 9 out of 10 gay people one of sober living, not of drug abuse -- if you have you generalize.

    So, again, the reasons most people abuse drugs has to do with them as individuals, not with the alleged "gay lifestyle'...buddy.


  • tuffguyndc

    Posts: 4437

    Aug 07, 2011 6:10 PM GMT
    Dallasfan824 said
    tuffguyndc said
    Dallasfan824 saidIt sounds like your friends are just weak minded or very insecure about who they are. Its sad it turned out that way for them. I can understand your frustration with them.
    Thank you buddy, I appreciate you honesty and your opinion. I agree with you about them being weak minded and maybe even a little insecure. But I just wonder why this happens and why do people allow this to happen? Is it because of a lack of support?


    im not sure if its a support issue. It is only if the person would respond to support. People battle their demands in different ways and respond to support differently. Some can pull themselves out of it and some just cant. I went through a drug period driven by really low self esteem. I was able to get myself to a place where I was able to fix myself.
    dallas, you are very a inspiration buddy and thank you for sharing your story. thanks for understanding where i was coming from with this thread.
  • tuffguyndc

    Posts: 4437

    Aug 07, 2011 6:13 PM GMT
    TroyAthlete said
    tuffguyndc said i am not talking about straight people buddy. i am talking gay people. straight people are not worried about if there bodies are nice enough to get a date. straight people are not worried about if they are masculine enough or feminine enough to get a date. yeah there are similarities but there are definitely some differences. even you as a therapist should know that so please do not try to make this into a gay verses straight.


    It's not about gay vs. straight, it's about fact vs. fiction.

    It is fiction that heterosexuals don't have body image and heterosexist identification issues. It is also fiction that leading a "gay lifestyle" is deterministic in predicting substance abuse, mostly because there is no one definition of what constitutes a "gay lifestyle."

    It is a fact that the reasons for drug dependency and destructive behavior vary from individual to individuals. While it is a fact that homosexuals are slightly more likely than their straight peers percentage-wise to engage in illicit drug use, it is also a fact that the vast majority of LGBT people do not use drugs.

    The "gay lifestyle" then, if there is one, is for 9 out of 10 gay people one of sober living, not of drug abuse -- if you have you generalize.

    So, again, the reasons most people abuse drugs has to do with them as individuals, not with the alleged "gay lifestyle'...buddy.


    again you are comparing apples and apples. yes they are all apples but there are differences in them. apparently you do not know that or you are pretending they do not exist. dude, it is not about people sometimes it about the culture. here is another example. my buddy is a skateboarder. he has been all his life. i do not know if you are familiar with this culture but drugs are a big part of this culture and it is also a lifestyle. which proves that is not just a individual thing it is also a cultural thing. buddy, i chose to say this to you and that is we will agree to disagree on this subject matter. thank you for your input
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19129

    Aug 07, 2011 6:16 PM GMT
    tuffguyndc saidplease do not try to make this into a gay verses straight.


    Gay men have a very distinct difference than straight guys in that they have had to deal with being gay and -- as TroyAthlete said -- that can depend on the individual and his or her background, history, physiology, and environment. Most gay men suffer at one time or another (regardless of how physically beautiful or perfect their bodies may be) with insecurity and self-esteem issues. In fact, the most beautiful with the best bodies can often times be the most insecure and suffer from the lowest self-esteem issues. What is beautiful and seemingly perfect on the outside is often times masking what is not so beautiful and imperfect on the inside. This can, and often does, lead to drug abuse and other addictions including sexual addictions.
  • tuffguyndc

    Posts: 4437

    Aug 07, 2011 6:20 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    tuffguyndc saidplease do not try to make this into a gay verses straight.


    Gay men have a very distinct difference than straight guys in that they have had to deal with being gay and -- as TroyAthlete said -- that can depend on the individual and his or her background, history, physiology, and environment. Most gay men suffer at one time or another (regardless of how physically beautiful or perfect their bodies may be) with insecurity and self-esteem issues. In fact, the most beautiful with the best bodies can often times be the most insecure and suffer from the lowest self-esteem issues. What is beautiful and seemingly perfect on the outside is often times masking what is not so beautiful and imperfect on the inside. This can, and often does, lead to drug abuse and other addictions including sexual addictions.
    [/quote]curious, i agree with you 100%. however, troy is trying to say that it had nothing to do with them being the culture but it was just them. i do not agree with him.
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    Aug 07, 2011 6:28 PM GMT
    Everybody wants/needs to be loved. Rejection is the antithesis of love. So, rejection is extremely painful and people use drugs and other things to try to drown out the pain. Gay guys have to deal with much more rejection than gay guys. They usually get a lot of rejection growing up for being gay and then, when they enter the gay community as adults, they get rejected for not having 0% body fat. I do think, per capita, drugs are a bigger problem in the gay community but there's a reason for that.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19129

    Aug 07, 2011 6:33 PM GMT
    tuffguyndc saidcurious, i agree with you 100%. however, troy is trying to say that it had nothing to do with them being the culture but it was just them. i do not agree with him.



    I don't think ANYONE can really accurately determine IF someone would have turned to drugs or other addictions based solely on their sexual orientation. I do agree with you that being gay, and the insecurities, guilt, and self-esteem issues that can come with that, can be a catalyst that leads to drug use and other addictions.
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    Aug 07, 2011 6:34 PM GMT
    TroyAthlete said
    tuffguyndc said i am not talking about straight people buddy. i am talking gay people. straight people are not worried about if there bodies are nice enough to get a date. straight people are not worried about if they are masculine enough or feminine enough to get a date. yeah there are similarities but there are definitely some differences. even you as a therapist should know that so please do not try to make this into a gay verses straight.


    It's not about gay vs. straight, it's about fact vs. fiction.

    It is fiction that heterosexuals don't have body image and heterosexist identification issues. It is also fiction that leading a "gay lifestyle" is deterministic in predicting substance abuse, mostly because there is no one definition of what constitutes a "gay lifestyle."

    It is a fact that the reasons for drug dependency and destructive behavior vary from individual to individuals. While it is a fact that homosexuals are slightly more likely than their straight peers percentage-wise to engage in illicit drug use, it is also a fact that the vast majority of LGBT people do not use drugs.

    The "gay lifestyle" then, if there is one, is for 9 out of 10 gay people one of sober living, not of drug abuse -- if you have you generalize.

    So, again, the reasons most people abuse drugs has to do with them as individuals, not with the alleged "gay lifestyle'...buddy.




    who cares about heterosexuals? why does it seem whenever a discussion about gays come up, straights are brought into the equation? are they a litmus test or something?

    seems to me that the majority of gays who do not use drugs or have never used drugs of one sort or another is not as vaasst as you would have us believe.
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    Aug 07, 2011 6:42 PM GMT
    tuffguyndc said again you are comparing apples and apples. yes they are all apples but there are differences in them. apparently you do not know that or you are pretending they do not exist. dude, it is not about people sometimes it about the culture. here is another example. my buddy is a skateboarder. he has been all his life. i do not know if you are familiar with this culture but drugs are a big part of this culture and it is also a lifestyle. which proves that is not just a individual thing it is also a cultural thing. buddy, i chose to say this to you and that is we will agree to disagree on this subject matter. thank you for your input


    No, actually, you're the one who generalized about "gay men and gay lifestyle."

    On the contrary, I'm the one who pointed out that all individuals are unique and have unique experiences and unique circumstances that lead to unique outcomes.

    So, I'm the one here recognizing differences.

    I've already acknowledged that environment plays a part. However, individuals' environments are different.

    Based on your own logic, the "gay lifestyle" does not promote drugs, as 90%+ of gays are sober. As such, "gay men and gay lifestyle" are, again, not deterministic in predicting substance abuse.

    I won't agree to disagree that this fact is not in fact, a fact. False stereotypes need to be challenged. Sorry.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19129

    Aug 07, 2011 6:42 PM GMT
    Blackguy4you said
    seems to me that the majority of gays who do not use drugs or have never used drugs of one sort or another is not as vaasst as you would have us believe.



    I kind of tend to think that excessive drug use in the gay community is found to be more prevalent near major metropolitan areas where gay dance clubs and circuit parties are a big attraction. Drugs and these sort of events kind of go hand-in-hand.
  • tuffguyndc

    Posts: 4437

    Aug 07, 2011 6:43 PM GMT
    Blackguy4you said
    TroyAthlete said
    tuffguyndc said i am not talking about straight people buddy. i am talking gay people. straight people are not worried about if there bodies are nice enough to get a date. straight people are not worried about if they are masculine enough or feminine enough to get a date. yeah there are similarities but there are definitely some differences. even you as a therapist should know that so please do not try to make this into a gay verses straight.







    who cares about heterosexuals? why does it seem whenever a discussion about gays come up, straights are brought into the equation? are they a litmus test or something?

    seems to me that the majority of gays who do not use drugs or have never used drugs of one sort or another is not as vaasst as you would have us believe.
    block, i agree with you. however, i disagree about the drug use. the numbers are probably a little skewed because the gay population is a small one but the number is certainly high because of the smaller number.
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19129

    Aug 07, 2011 6:44 PM GMT
    TroyAthlete said
    Based on your own logic, the "gay lifestyle" does not promote drugs, as 90%+ of gays are sober.


    I do not in any way believe this -- at least not in metropolitan areas. Please cite where or how you are coming up with these figures, because I can't believe that 90% of the gay community is sober. Please provide some PROOF that this is, indeed, a FACT.
  • tuffguyndc

    Posts: 4437

    Aug 07, 2011 6:44 PM GMT
    TroyAthlete said
    tuffguyndc said again you are comparing apples and apples. yes they are all apples but there are differences in them. apparently you do not know that or you are pretending they do not exist. dude, it is not about people sometimes it about the culture. here is another example. my buddy is a skateboarder. he has been all his life. i do not know if you are familiar with this culture but drugs are a big part of this culture and it is also a lifestyle. which proves that is not just a individual thing it is also a cultural thing. buddy, i chose to say this to you and that is we will agree to disagree on this subject matter. thank you for your input


    No, actually, you're the one who generalized about "gay men and gay lifestyle."

    On the contrary, I'm the one who pointed out that all individuals are unique and have unique and have unique circumstances that lead to unique outcomes.

    So, I'm the one here recognizing differences.

    I've already acknowledged that environment plays a part. However, individual's environment are different.

    Based on your own logic, the "gay lifestyle" does not promote drugs, as 90%+ of gays are sober. As such, "gay men and gay lifestyle" are, again, not deterministic in predicting substance abuse.

    I won't agree to disagree that this fact is not in fact, a fact. Sorry.
    dude, you do not have to. i will no longer agree to respond to any of your comments.
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    Aug 07, 2011 6:46 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ saidI don't think ANYONE can really accurately determine IF someone would have turned to drugs or other addictions based solely on their sexual orientation.


    ^This.